A good first hone?

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07-13-2009, 02:21 PM
Stubear

A good first hone?

Hi all,

Thanks again for the advice that I have received over the last few weeks, its been very useful! :rock:

I've been using my DOVO str8 for a week or so now, and I'm starting to get consistently good results!

I know that I will have a while to wait before I have to start thinking about honing as stropping is keeping the edge very well at the moment. I thought I would start to have a look about and read up on honing, so I know roughly what to expect when I get there...!

I've also managed to find a straight razor I forgot I even had (it was part of a dissection kit from school), which I'm planning to practice on. I figure its better to use this than to start with my new one...! This razor has black plastic scales and a square point. The blade has a bit of rust on it, but I figured I'd try to restore it and learn a bit about honing without damaging my wallet..!

My question is, which hones to go for? I've found a set of Shaptons on SRD for $231, which comprises a 4k, 8k and a 16k hone which I think would be pretty good. Don at SRD recommended these over a 4k/8k Norton as they are much more consistent and newbie friendly! Would it be better to by a set or could I get away with just, say, a 8k or 12K Shapton on its own?

I keep telling myself not to worry too much about cost (within reason), as I'd rather get a good set of tools and have them for life than buy a poor hone and suffer the consequences! But it is $230 we're talking about here... I've seen some cheaper hones on a wooden paddle with a stone on one side and a pasted strop on the other for about $40, but a bit of digging revealed the stone to be 800 - 1000 grit. So this will probably put an edge like a bandsaw on the blade, so I dont really want to go cheap!

So basically I was wondering whether I should just buy an individual Shapton first? I can always get more later! And if so, which grit should I go for?

Help me make up my mind coz I keep going between buying one stone or the set and its driving me nuts...!:shrug:
07-13-2009, 02:31 PM
0livia

What about two Naniwa Combos of 800/5000 and 3000/8000 ?
For a beginner a slower hone is actually better because it reduces the loss of material
that you'll likely create with too much pressure etc.
07-13-2009, 02:39 PM
nun2sharp

IMO the best first stone would be a barbers hone such as the ever popular SWATY, Keen Kutter, Dubl Duck etc. This hone will be the only hone you will ever need to maintain an already sharp razor. It is simple to use and will teach proper honing technique with little to no chance of hurting your razor. If your looking to do edge restoration, thats a whole different animal, so many opinions so little time.
07-13-2009, 02:49 PM
JimmyHAD

All good advice and I'll throw in the venerable Norton 4/8 combo. The Naniwas seem to be gaining in popularity to the point where they are on my 'to get' list. A Swaty or whatever barber hone is great for touching up an already shave ready razor that needs a little TLC. Whatever you get don't forget that you will need to lap it and check out the honing tutorials in the SRP Wiki here. :tu
07-13-2009, 03:39 PM
ben.mid

Just to mix it up a little, BBW/Coticule combo. A fantastically diverse natural that can deal with most situations from bevel setting to polishing. It's not the best for setting a bevel, but it can tackle it. The Coticule is a fantastic polisher, with just water too.
07-13-2009, 03:45 PM
Kees

How about a good quality coticule? Your razors seem shave-sharp so unless you mess up the edge only touch ups are needed. Used with slurry it cuts faster, without slower and finer. Very versatile all in all.

Coticules used to be the number one hone here but lately Naniwas, Japanese hones etc got more in the limelight but the humble coticule is a very versatile hone. If you take a natural Belgian blue/coticule you have two hones in one though a bit slower than the Norton, however the coticule is finer than an 8K Norton.

At the end of the day all of the above recommendations you had are good and have their strong and week points.

Barber hones: quality varies, fast cutters but not as fine as a coticule. Swatys are very versatile as are many others.
Norton 4K/8K: faster hone but not as fine as a coticule. WIil produce a shave-ready razor.

Somewhere Lynn has written down his personal history of honing. He says he started shaving off the Norton 8K, later had a coticule, then found an Escher even more satisfactory and now he is even more enthusiastic about Nakayamas.
A barber hone, a coticule or a Norton 4/8K are all good starters.

Whatever you buy: they'll keep your razors going forever unless you damage the edge. When you start restoring razors you'll start needing more hones anyway.
07-13-2009, 03:49 PM
JimmyHAD

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben.mid

Just to mix it up a little, BBW/Coticule combo. A fantastically diverse natural that can deal with most situations from bevel setting to polishing. It's not the best for setting a bevel, but it can tackle it. The Coticule is a fantastic polisher, with just water too.

+1 on the coticule. If you haven't accessed it already here in the SRP Wiki is "What Hone Do I Need". It is a bit dated in that it doesn't cover the Naniwa superstones and maybe a few others but a good overview of what you may want depending on your current and future intentions regarding honing.
07-13-2009, 03:56 PM
fccexpert

A Norton 4/8K is all you really need and reasonably priced.
07-13-2009, 05:04 PM
Lynn

Just to clarify.

Coticules were never my number one stone. They were my number one finishing stone for a while following bevel setting and the 4K/8K. I started off using the Coticule for polishing before either .5 diamond paste or Chromium Oxide. I also started off using it with a light slurry and then went to just water. After the Coticule, I found I was getting better results with an Escher and then a Nakayama stone. I definitely honed razors to shave ready for a long time using just the Norton 4K/8K

My recommendation would be either the Norton 4k/8k and a finishing stone, Naniwa Super in either 3K or 5K, 8K and 12K or the Shapton Glass 4K, 8K and 16K. All of these are very consistent. I would also recommend using either a .5 diamond on felt or chromium oxide on something too. You can always once you have learned how to make a razor shave ready, go back and play to be able to see if you can make it shave ready just using the hones. Personal opinion here.

Have fun,

Lynn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees

How about a good quality coticule? Your razors seem shave-sharp so unless you mess up the edge only touch ups are needed. Used with slurry it cuts faster, without slower and finer. Very versatile all in all.

Coticules used to be the number one hone here but lately Naniwas, Japanese hones etc got more in the limelight but the humble coticule is a very versatile hone. If you take a natural Belgian blue/coticule you have two hones in one though a bit slower than the Norton, however the coticule is finer than an 8K Norton.

At the end of the day all of the above recommendations you had are good and have their strong and week points.

Barber hones: quality varies, fast cutters but not as fine as a coticule. Swatys are very versatile as are many others.
Norton 4K/8K: faster hone but not as fine as a coticule. WIil produce a shave-ready razor.

Somewhere Lynn has written down his personal history of honing. He says he started shaving off the Norton 8K, later had a coticule, then found an Escher even more satisfactory and now he is even more enthusiastic about Nakayamas.
A barber hone, a coticule or a Norton 4/8K are all good starters.

Whatever you buy: they'll keep your razors going forever unless you damage the edge. When you start restoring razors you'll start needing more hones anyway.
07-13-2009, 11:31 PM
0livia

Do it! :)
You can hone a lot of blades with these hones - and at great speed!
07-13-2009, 11:43 PM
dannywonderful

Stubear, where are you? Your location is showing as London, but you're quoting prices in dollars and looking at hones from US retailers. If you're planning on buying your hones from the US and then having them shipped over to the UK then that is going to bump up the price considerably no matter what you choose.
07-14-2009, 10:22 AM
Stubear

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannywonderful

Stubear, where are you? Your location is showing as London, but you're quoting prices in dollars and looking at hones from US retailers. If you're planning on buying your hones from the US and then having them shipped over to the UK then that is going to bump up the price considerably no matter what you choose.

I'm in London, but at the moment I've been unable to find a sensibly priced stone. The Norton 4/8 is £80 and I cant find anywhere that sells the Shaptons or the Naniwas. Is there an online/ high street retailer in the UK that is a good source for these stones? Or should I do some legwork and go look in some small hardware stores?
07-14-2009, 10:28 AM
0livia

Japanese Naniwa hones
Here you go :)
Or - if shipping from the netherlands is not an issue...
http://www.knivesandtools.com/nl/ct/...lijpstenen.htm

Compare the price.
07-14-2009, 10:31 AM
Stubear

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0livia

Japanese Naniwa hones
Here you go :)
Or - if shipping from the netherlands is not an issue...
hang on, link coming...

Champion! Thanks very much for that!

Brilliant! :rock:
07-14-2009, 10:35 AM
0livia

Glad to be of help. :)