Sharpening the razor

I've read everything I can find on sharpening, watched all the video's on youtube. I've bought the Norton Stone 4K & 8K, have three or four razors of verious types, and still I can't get the razor sharp.

I know (at least I think) i'm doing most every thing correct but still can't get the razor to pass the hair test. They feel sharp and I've been shaving with a straight razor daily for over two months. They seem to give me a good shave but not as well as every one else says they get from theirs. I am beginning to think there is a trick to the hair cutting test. I also use the blade on the ball of the thumb test but I think that is a little subjective but I am beginning to tell some difference in the feel of the blade.

My question is: Am I the only newbe that just can't quite get it right. I must be doing something wrong or maybe, I don't quite have the test figured out yet. So, I'm open to any and all suggestions. Being almost 70, and being married for over 45years, I've learned to take some criticism so I won't be offended.

Gary

i'm a newbie too. maybe you need another finer hone. i also have a 12k naniwa. i think that most of the masters have a finer grit then an 8k. just my two cents

Check the pressure you put on the blade while honing-- unless you are doing bevel reset work, need to be as light as possible, especially at the last stages (just the weight of the blade, and some people even try to "lift" a little to go even lighter, although I don't quite see how to do that).

-Chief

not sure why you want to pass some hair test.

if you think your razors are not where they should be better get one of them honed by an expert, that would be a much better benchmark in my opinion.

other than that honing is fairly simple, but that doesn't mean it is easy to master. afik the only way is more practice. I think in about hundred razors you should have a relatively good idea about it.

I am assuming you're trying to do the Hanging Hair Test? Plucking a hair , holding it horizontally and trying to cut it. If this is the test I don't find it 100% necessary to pass. If you shave with the razor with acceptable results why make it jump through more hoops than it needs to?

Maybe I do need a 12K. Although I read where some folks use sandpaper ect. Others claim a 8K is enough, I think my problem is I don't know sharp from dull. I get a decent shave but the razor won't pass the hair test.

If you are talking about the "hanging hair test" don't bother. Its a parlor trick and has no relevence with regard to shaving. I can make a very sharp razor fail this test, and conversely, can make my kitchen knives pass it.

If you are not getting a good shave, it may be that your razors are not sharp enough, or it may be that your technique needs work. There is no way anyone can advise you on this via email or posting.

You might consider having a razor honed professionally and then give it a test shave without stropping or any other work on the edge on your part. If you get a great shave with this blade, then you need to work on your honing/stropping. If not, then you need to work on your technique.

Hi Gary,

It's possible that you're getting your razors plenty sharp on the hone, but need to pay a little more attention to the stropping. You didn't mention if you are using any strops with paste (polishing compound); perhaps a Chromium Oxide strop might do the trick to get your razor to where it suits you. Of course you might not even need to use a pasted strop; if you have one, a little careful stropping on a canvas strop, then finishing on the leather can work wonders.

Cheers,
Jeff

Hello Gary, SRP founder Lynn Abrams says the main test is the shave. So if you are getting a decent shave you are doing alright. One way to get the thumb pad test (TPT) memorized is to use a known sharp blade such as a double edge or single edge razor blade to learn the feel of it.

In my experience it took me a lot of honing on a lot of razors to begin to know what I was doing and I still learn a little something during each honing session. For the first year I was kind of feeling my way in the dark not knowing how it was going to turn out.

Member Heavydutysg135 said on his excellent video series that most razors that members sent to him when they couldn't get them sharp needed further work on the bevel setting.

If you're getting good shaves that may not be an issue. The hanging hair test is nice to pass. I have usually found that if my razor passes it will be after my routine 50 linen and 50 leather stropping. Like you I've found that even if it doesn't pass I am getting good .... mostly great shaves doing two passes.

Like the other gentlemen said, send one of those razors out to Lynn or one of the other honemiesters and when you get it back you'll have something to compare your honing results with.

Hi Gary, to answer your question, no you aren't the only newbie out there who "can't quite get it right." I've got an ebay special I've been practising on. I can get it to the point of a fairly comfortable shave, it pulls a little. It will definitely get the job done. But to get it to the point it doesn't pull, that's the challenge I'm faced with ATM. I'm like you, I've done the reading, watched the videos, I know intellectually what to do. It's just a matter of practice. We'll both get there eventually. :)

It's been mentioned in this thread and we hear it constantly, get a blade honed by a honemeister, so we have a reference. And you know what? It's one of the best things I've done. Surprised? :) Yes it gave me a benchmark. I know what it feels like to have a blade glide and not pull as I shave. But even more importantly it has given me feedback on my stropping technique. I learned that my stropping was actually dulling the blade a little. The blade didn't pull after the honemeister stropped it, but then I stropped and it pulled. I was pretty disappointed, but thanks to Bruce and ChrisL I had a chrome ox pasted paddle. I go that out, gave the blade 10 passes, modified my stropping technique, and the blade was back not pulling.

In order to sharpen and keep our blades sharp we have hones and strops. Both are equally important. It's like golf, you might have one heck of a drive, but where's your short game at? If you have no short game, you have no game, no mater how far you can blast off the tee. If you get a shave ready razor, then you can practice your short game. Once you have a razor or two you're confident in maintaining, then practice honing on one of the others. That's my advice from one newbie to another.

OK, got off on a little tangent there Gary. I'm sure you now all this stuff. I guess I just needed to get a few things off my chest. :) Best of luck to you.

Hi Gary, Welcome to SRP and Congrats on being married for 45 years. That's an accomplishment in itself. I didn't read all the other responses, first, Don't worry about the HHT. I wish they get rid of that all together. The proof is in the pudding as they say. If your getting good shaves, that's all that matters. If you want to take your blade to the next level, try some pastes or a higher grit hone. More affordable options would be the Chinese 12k, A slow cutter, 100 passes is the norm, 50 with a slurry. The Naniwa 12k, an excellent hone, a bit more expensive. Escher's and Coticules, Escher's are rare and hard to find. We had a slew of them come through this forum a few months ago. Now we're in a dry spell. Coticules can be had at various vendors and there are some on the Classifieds. I'd recommend a reputable source as no two Coti's are alike. Shapton's, great hones, very expensive. The gear needed, so I'm told, I.E. Holder, the special lapping plate, etc.. cand exceed the cost of the actual hone by 5x. You can most definitely use a shapton without all the expensive toys that go with it.

Chromium Oxide paste is excellent and for sale at many vendors in various forms. I like the big crayon at SRD. It's easy to use, If you can color, you can use it. You'll need a leather strop or paddle strop, or some balsa wood, or even a newspaper can be used. Chromium Oxide or CRox, or Cr02 as it's known will give your blade a much keener edge. Diamond pastes and sprays are avialable too, the most poplular are .50, 1.0 and the imfamous .25 which many guys claim leaves their blade so sharp, it irritates them. You have the Dovo pastes too...

You can shave on an 8k, as you know, but using one the finisher's I've mentioned will bring your blade to the next level....

Also, getting your blade honed by one of our Pro's here will give you a bench mark to shoot for. That way you'll know what sharp is. Check the classifieds, vendor's corner. All are good. If you'd like more detailed info on any of the hones I've mentioned, drop me a pm, I'd be glad to help you out.

Rich

Sir, I feel your pain. I shave WTG and XTG with my SR. I shave ATG with my Merkur DE. My SR is sharp enought for an OK shave, but not to the caliber of what we read within this forum. You and I just have to hang in there and keep at it; we will get it.

Hopefully, you will not feel alone knowing I am going through the same challenges as you. Take care and good luck.

all this newbie can say is that i cut myself less with a blade that is not overly sharp but srtill get a nice shave. super sharp i am not interested in.

I'm glad i found this thread, i was on the verge of giving up and selling my whole kit, life just seems too short to spend an hour each day trying to get a razor sharp enough to shave.

I don't know what goes wrong, in teh past I have had some great, clean shaves, I have a couple of razors that never seem to want ot quit, then for a the past two months they all pull and hurt and even though I can get a good clean shave eventually the chin is just a horrible stubbly mess.

I went back to my DE out of frustration and fell in love again. Okay, not quite as close, but clean and ready to go in under 5 minutes.

So I reckon my problem is the stropping, I have 3 strops, all good makes, and none of them have a flat surface, you can see where the blade has moved along them in a certain light and it covers about 1/3 of the surface at any time. It's always the stropping that makes the blade duller. One is almost as it came new, one has been soaked, rubbed with glass, lathered, sanded, treated and rubbed by hand daily, one is half way between the two, no difference, they all behave the same way and seem to dull the blade.

Not so long ago i could strop fast and light and get a killer edge, for about two days, now i can't even shave with the edge.

Personally I find the hair test great, i use a chest hair and if it pops that all the way along I will get a good shave, if it splits or doesn't cut then no chance.

I have all teh kit, some really good old razors, hones: coticule, thuringian, barbers hone, chinese 12k, norton 4/8k, tam o shanter, i can get a great edge honing but that's it. Even the Cro Ox isn't helping now. :rant:

I am glad to see i am not alone, it seems straight razors have more mood swings than . . . well let's not go there, but I'm sure they have PMT most of the month. :fim:

Practice, practice, practice.

Well I don't know where to start. Most everyone has great advice on how to get the straight Razor sharp and I've tried all them, that's not to say I'm doing it correctly. I'm most interested in the strop suggestions. I have a new leather strop and use it every time before shaving but frankly, don't know if it helps or not.

The basic question is what is a great shave. The old razor seemed to give a good shave but I really like the satisfaction of shaving with a Straight Razor. So that's what I'm trying to master. I may be getting a good shave and don't know it. I've purchased a razor from a professional and it seems to pull and leave stubble like the one's I've "tried" to sharpen. I guess I'm more critical of my shaves now than before. You tend to except the save you are getting after 40 or 50 years and I guess maybe I'm expecting more from the Straight razor than I shood.

Finally, thanks for all the great advice. One suggestion I particularly liked was the idea of using a old style single edge blade as the test to get the feel on your thumb of a really sharp blade. I'm going to give that a try and will let you know how it works out.:)

It sounds to me as if its in your stropping technique or blade angle as you shave.

+1..
If your honed razor is performing the same as one honed by a pro, sounds like the fault may not be with the blades.
Welcome to the learning curve.

I've come not to like any test but shaving my face. The hanging hair test, fingernail, ball, etc. are very subjective and differ from person to person. The reason you're honing the razor is to shave your face so go ahead and give it a shot and you'll see if it's sharp enough. The Norton 4k8k will only take you so far. It's a good stone to learn on but you'll want to graduate to a better finishing stone.

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Originally Posted by wi0v

Well I don't know where to start. Most everyone has great advice on how to get the straight Razor sharp and I've tried all them, that's not to say I'm doing it correctly. I'm most interested in the strop suggestions. I have a new leather strop and use it every time before shaving but frankly, don't know if it helps or not.

The basic question is what is a great shave. The old razor seemed to give a good shave but I really like the satisfaction of shaving with a Straight Razor. So that's what I'm trying to master. I may be getting a good shave and don't know it. I've purchased a razor from a professional and it seems to pull and leave stubble like the one's I've "tried" to sharpen. I guess I'm more critical of my shaves now than before. You tend to except the save you are getting after 40 or 50 years and I guess maybe I'm expecting more from the Straight razor than I shood.

Finally, thanks for all the great advice. One suggestion I particularly liked was the idea of using a old style single edge blade as the test to get the feel on your thumb of a really sharp blade. I'm going to give that a try and will let you know how it works out.:)

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Hey there, if you want, for the cost of postage, I'll gladly hone your razor for you and then you can compare if higher grit hone or technique or both are something you need to invest in.

To the op, maybe before you get a 12k, you might want to consider a 1k or equivalent. If your bevel is not set, you can polish all day but it wont be sharp. Using a 4k is doable but may take a very long time if the razor is off. And it literally can take hours if the spine is bent or the toe is short etc. Magic marker test is the first one I use as this tells me how far the blade is from sharp. Regarding the hht tests, I use them and it is one of the ways I know Im advancing on the progression. Thats the reason why I use it. I have to pass hht off the 8k or equivalent or Im not done. And I need to pass it at a higher level after the 12k or equivalent. And then crox and then 50 laps on leather. Every step gives me a better hht and that shows the blade is progressively sharper. The ultimate and only relevant test is the shave test. But I have never had as good a shave as I have with a blade that passes the hht test. Looking at the bevel with a 30x jewelers loupe shows you lots. And the thumb nail test and thumb pad test as well as the hht. I think they are very important as progress is able to be measured. Obviously not every one agrees on this. But saying it feels sharp is an opinion, cutting a hair a half inch from the tip of your finger with no pressure or swiping means to me the shave will be good. Not passing reveals to me Im not done, and that usually means I missed something at a lower grit than I am on. My 2 cents.

I would hope that after 4 years the OP figured it out :hmmm:

Necroposting at its finest...lol
:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

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Originally Posted by olbez

Hey there, if you want, for the cost of postage, I'll gladly hone your razor for you and then you can compare if higher grit hone or technique or both are something you need to invest in.

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Omg, well I feel dumb - the thread is from 2009! Lol

Hey man, never feel dumb for wanting to help another member out... that's why we're here in the first place. :)

Oddly, though, as I'm browsing this thread, another member named Lazarus is as well...

Guys , this is a 4 year old thread. The op probably has a handle on it by now. :)

Now now, you can't be too sure, for instance, I 've been shaving with a straight for 4 years now and still have some difficulty achieving BBS on my chin...from time to time.";"

I've been shaving for 4 years and I have no difficulty getting BS on my chin.

James.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I've been shaving for 4 years and I have no difficulty getting BS on my chin.

James.

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Well....BS and BBS are two different things in my book. :)

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Originally Posted by bill3152

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, My 2 cents.

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Good thing about this thread, Bill's advice is now worth 25 cents,,,,,,:rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

Good thing about this thread, Bill's advice is now worth 25 cents,,,,,,:rofl2:

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12 fold return in 4 years? I'm listening...where do I sign LOL!

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Originally Posted by bill3152

12 fold return in 4 years? I'm listening...where do I sign LOL!

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Yeah, I saw that and threw my money at the screen right away, but nothing happened :shrug: