Getting neurotic about honing and HHT

I have always enjoyed the old ways so I decided to give a straight razor a go. I got a Dovo
Prima Klung, a strop and a Norton 4K/8K. Well after watching a few vids and reading the wiki I started my first shave. It felt a little scratchy with inspection of the blade revealing what looked like a bad hone job. I decided to go to the Norton and do a 3-3, 1-3, 1-7 progression on it after getting my technique sorted on an ebay junker. It shaved wonderfully well, and finished my whole face as it felt so comfortable. Happy days!! I read the wiki a little more and learn the wonders of the HHT. I tried it but could not get it to work so I went back to the hone. I still could not get it to work so I stropped it up and shaved with it the next day. Wow what a mistake!! Lesson learnt....if it ain’t broke (i.e. it shaves well) don’t fix it! A few back hones and the same 3-3, 1-3, 1-7 got it shaving really well again. The bevel now looks really bad and uneven. Can this be fixed?
After the first shave I was so excited I got another more expensive razor. This one looks honed to perfection but shaves really badly. After making a mess of one razor I am now really scared of the hone. I do not have the confidence to do more than a few strokes on the 8K before a strop and testing. I have been neurotically honing, stroping and testing the junker in the hope of getting the HHT working but can get it working 1 in 20 time. I have tried so many honing, stroping and HHT techniques that I have no confidence what so ever. Does anybody else have a problem with the HHT?

The general consensus on this forum is that the shave test is the best way to check if a razor is up to scratch.

The HHT is very subjective as people have varying degrees of thickness of hair. People with thicker hairs might find the test easier as the hair will not flex as much, making it easier to cut. Thinner hairs may simply be pushed aside by the blade instead of cutting.

It sounds to me like you had a shave ready edge and then over honed it.

As you said yourself, if it aint broke..! If you can get a shave that you are happy with from your razor then dont take it back to the hone until the edge has dulled. The ONLY REAL TEST IS THE SHAVE TEST! If the shave is good then the edge is good!

I'm no honemeister, but IMHO the HHT is nothing more than a parlor trick. I've been using and honing straights for about a year and a half and have never even tried it. Unlike the thumb-pad and -nail tests, I don't think the HHT serves any real purpose. Forget about it and just worry about a close, comfortable shave.

A developed HHT can be very accurate....

An undeveloped HHT is useless...

What that means is once you get a razor to shaving sharp multiple times you can then begin to develop your own tests... All the non-shave tests are very subjective, from the TNT TPT AHT to the HHT... As you learn to hone successfully, the tests become more and more accurate the more you learn how to use them...

Way too many people use all these tests as a sure fire judgment and they just are not...

Here is a for instance,, An HHT done with my hair is useless every time, I can get my hair to pop consistently at about 4k...
Now an HHT done using my wife's baby fine stuff is so accurate it is scary, if you can get that to pop then the edge is 99% of the time shave ready...

+1 On the information Glenn has given you. I think these tests should actually be classified as intermediate to advanced user tests. Not that the new honer can't use them, but like Glenn said, they just aren't experienced enough to decipher them.

Consider the HHT for instance. Was the hair thick or thin? Did you use the root end to test with? was the angle 20deg. or 30deg. or 40deg? did you have to pull the hair across the edge or did you slide it down the edge? Did you wet the hair before using it? Was the hair curved up, or was it curved down? Did the hair pop because the edge cought the kerotin and snapped it, or did the hair just immediately fall when the blade touched it?

These are just some of the results of the HHT that I have seen and had to develop my own way of using it. The other tests are the same way. I would never think of sending a newly honed razor out to someone without it having passed all these tests, to my specifications only. I wouldn't want someone to get a good shave from their razor that didn't pass these tests, only to miss a GREAT shave if it had.

Since you are new, my advice is the same as others.... If it shaves well enough to make you smile, then go with that until you have more experience.

Good Luck and Enjoy!

Ray

Welcome to SRP. That is a mighty slim pyramid if your bevel looks uneven. Have you flattened the Norton ? Put marker on the edge to see how it is making contact or not making contact with the hone along the entire edge with the stroke you are using ?

General consensus I think is that setting the bevel properly is the foundation and work up from there. IME if you figure out an effective stroke with the results of the marker test and set an even bevel that will pass the TNT ..... do another 10 x strokes lightly...

Now go to the pyramid as described in the honing section in the SRP Wiki here and don't use the TNT again, only the TPT and when you feel you're getting there the arm hair test. Do the whole pyramid concentrating on your stroke and then strop and see if it will pop hair off of your forearm without touching the skin.

If it does go shave and if it doesn't do some more on the hones. That method works for me and it may work for you. :gl:

To all, thank you for the replies.

I lapped the Norton before using it, making sure I could remove pencil marks. I do not have a lapping plate so I did it on some 2000 grit wet and dry paper on a flat bench. I did not however lap 1/8" like it is recommended. I started with the pointy end of the pyramid as it only felt a little scratch on my face so I figured it was a fairly good edge. The edge now is a little uneven but shaves brilliantly along the whole blade. The annoying thing is that it is only one side of the blade that is uneven and not the side I feel I have the greatest weakness on.

From all your collective experience will starting from bevel set (1K) fix a “wavy” bevel?

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Originally Posted by deadsilly

From all your collective experience will starting from bevel set (1K) fix a “wavy” bevel?

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Yes it will but it may not be necessary. If I had a razor "shaving brilliantly along the whole blade" I wouldn't be looking at the bevel too carefully. :) I sort of let those that are shaving well alone and go for ebay or flea market finds to practice honing....if they need it.

What does the spine look like??? The wear stripe on the spine is it nice and even??

+1 on all the advice given so far. My first razor was a Dovo Black Star, basically brand new, and honed by Lynn from my understanding, and I couldn't get it to pass the HHT.

Like was said, if it shaves well, I wouldn't worry about it passing the HHT.

I have a few ebay razors as well, and the bevel isn't the same size the full length of the blade, and never will be, but it's just a cosmetic thing. Does not affect the shaving ability of the edge at all.

+1 on rayman and Glen- the HHT is not THAT concrete, you have to establish benchmarks.

My hair is really good at predicting shave readiness- dry. If my hair is wet and shampoo'd and conditioned, a butter knife will cut it. Dry- I've gotten blades back from honemeisters that felt like butter on my face they were so nice and they couldn't cut some of my hairs. It's a mystery to me EXACTLY why, but I guess its a testament to good shave prep lol!

After some successes and failures, I am now getting consistently good-shaving edges. I believe my learning curve was definitely improved by the feedback I received from the Radio Shack 60x to 100x microscope. Possibly, it might help you as well.

When I was initially learning, I would take a few passes on a hone, for example, and continually check the change it made in the edge and bevel. The effect from polishing with the finer grits became clearer to me too. Occasionally, I would stumble onto a good edge. And, because I had been using the microscope, I generally knew what had produced the good edge at every step of the way.

After awhile, the haphazard production of good edges became somewhat more systematized. And, I think the microscope definitely saved me learning time.