Sharpening Problems! It just won't work :(

Howdy all!

I'm new to this straight razor thing - been weened on those evil disposables too long >_<

I use a synthetic brush and soap, but the problem I'm having is the razor itself... I watched ALL the videos I could find online about sharpening my straight razor, and bought a 1000 grit, and then 4000/8000 norton stone. The razor I got was REAL dull, so I sharpened as according to the videos, but when I go to shave again - it's still not enough!

I have done this process twice already, and am confused on what I'm doing wrong? There are no apparent nicks in the blade - it feels sharp, but just doesn't wanna cut like it should.

Any tips for honing techniques and or ways to get my blade up to speed?

Thnx ahead of time ^^

at first welcome to srp.
I hate to say this but this is the best and i think most helpful
Please Send your razor get honed professionally . Then you can see how sharp they must me. It will guide you when you hone your own razor.
So far to help you hone your own razor .
try set the bevel on 1k
then go to 4k until razor will POP UP the hair 's from your arm.
Move to 8k and stay in it until as soon as blade touches to hair ,it falls off stop right there. strop and go to shave. hope this help.
You can check names of the people who hones razor's on classified.
GL

Is it popping hairs off your arm after you hone on the 1000 grit? Polishing at 8K won't help so much if the edge isn't properly prepped at coarser grit.

edit: beat out, lol

I'm pretty new to it as well, but I think I can tell you, without even knowing how many passes you're making, is that you're not putting enough time in on getting a good bevel. That was my problem. If you check out the wiki about the Tests used, look up the TNT (thumb-nail test.)

Stay on the 1k hone until the full cutting edge passes the TNT.

If you are having problems with a certain area not passing the TNT, use a sharpee and color the bevel on both sides, to make sure your strokes are actually reaching the trouble spot(s).

I could probably go on forever about what I've learned I've been doing wrong, but basically it boils down to this:

Don't try to rush it. Don't be afraid to spend more (in some cases WAY more) time on the 1k stone to set a good TNT passing bevel. From what I've read/seen, you will spend the majority of your time on the 1k compared to the 4k/8k stones.

Good luck, and if you find yourself getting frustrated and in a hurry, put it down and leave it alone for a few hours, or the night. Frustration will only cause more trouble.

Welcome to SRP,

What is the razor? generally putting a shave worthy edge on a dull razor is not as trivial as it sounds. The norton is capable of doing this, but it takes more than a hone and a good quality razor. You need to be able to execute the correct honing strokes repeatedly and know when to switch hones. An online video (even if you've found a good one) can't really teach you either of these, and it will probably take you quite a bit of practice.

The standard recommendation is just what Sham told you - get somebody to hone your razor and concentrate on learning how to use it.

Thnx for the help so far guys,

Wish I could send my razor away for repairs, but shipping costs a fortune, as I live up in the bush in Northern Alaska.

My razor is a German made (writing is faded, but I think it's: extra homg something or other), hand forged carbon smile blade with a rounded spine, which indicates to me either 2 things:
1) it has never been used or honed before
or 2) when they honed it, they used the tape

I think the bevel might be the problem as some of you mentioned. I've done the TNT on different levels and each time it glides too smoothly across the nail.

I also think I need a flatter honing surface perhaps - as the one I have, the water doesn't like to stay on the hone and i end up applying new water every 5 strokes or so... guess my tables crooked up here >_<

Another problem I think I'm doing is - after watching Lynn hone, I'm starting to think I'm using too much pressure. I'm gonna try the one handed method this time around. And lap the stones before hand, as they're brand new and never been lapped before.

This whole honing thing is really hard to do right! But so far the razor DOES shave, just grabs a bit on the skin more than I'd like -- I heard this is dangerous, but haven't cut myself yet, and I go slow ^^

The final thing I was thinking is: how many times do I stop this thing after I'm done? I was only doing about 10 on each side but... Do you need to use oil or something with a new strop, or is it just ok for me to use as is?

I'll try the marker test as well on the stone - thnx a million for the great ideas guys!

yes, old school - im soaking the hones about 15 min before use in cold water - is cold the best temp to use?

One more question - sorry ^^

What should I be looking for with the light on the bevel as I'm honing? There were many pics and videos that tried to demonstrate this but maybe I just didn't find any good ones...

Is it worth buying a book or something with some honing tips? I'd like to get good at it instead of relying on someone to do it for me - typical Alaskan I guess.

You said that you strop only 10 strokes per side of the blade? I've read about people using tens of strokes per side (something like 40-60). Maybe some experienced members can chime in on this?

so far as stropping goes, i do about 25 passes on my straights for normal maintenance. if i just honed my straight i do about 20 on the linen and then 40 -60 on the leather. all my razors are shave ready tho when i got them. i sent them all to members on this site and they restored and honed them. so when i say i honed i really mean refresh on a stone. but non the less, i still strop it lots. you are removing lots of stock and stropping less.

Hi there, and welcome to SRP...

I am going to give you a few hints here...
I am 99% sure your bevel is not set, why ??? because 99 out of 100 new honers don't get the bevel set before moving to the higher grit stones...
Even if the razor is "shaving" the pulling is because some spots are sharper and some are duller...

Since you have probably X stroked that thing to death already lets try something slightly different and try and pull that edge into shape...
If you have watched the Vids then you probably watched the one on the front page of Lynn at the NC Razorcon he introduced a new technique that I think is perfect for where you are stuck....

I call it the "40 circles to sharp", what is really slick about it is that 1. it works 2. it eliminates a ton of guess work and 3. it eliminates much of the flipping of the razor and x strokes...

Using lapped flat stones...

Soak the 4k/8k and then do 40 counterclockwise circles with medium pressure starting at the top of the 4000 grit stone moving to the bottom. Do 40 clockwise circles from bottom to top...

Rinse the stone, now starting at the top do 40 counterclockwise circles top to bottom using light pressure this time, again reverse this from bottom to top...

Switch to the 8k do 10 slightly heel forward laps straight up and down...
rinse the stone do 10 very exact and perfect X strokes..

Rinse the stone and here is my trick to getting the most out of the Norton 8k very very light very slow X strokes about 10-20 as the stone dries once the stone dries stop...

Stropping off the hones is different then everyday stropping...
My routine is 50 linen and 100 leather off the hones Half that everday...

Give that a try and see what happens...:)

6gun,

That's a good precis on honing. I've tried a very similar approach myself after asking a barber, who was trained on shaving, how he honed a razor. "Always use circles." he said. And wouldn't you know, it worked.

It sounds to me like there was never a properly sey bevel on your razor. Until the bevel is properly set you can polish the edge all you want with the higher grit stones but that wont make for a comfortable shave. Try spending more time on the 1 k hone. When you can pop hairs off of the 1 k then you can move on to the 4 and 8 k stones. Also i do understand that shipping from where you are is very pricey but it is imperitive that you get the feel of what a properly honed razor feels like. I started out honing my own razors right off of the bat and had decent shaves from them. It wasnt until i sent my first brand new razor off to lynn for honing that i truly understood what shave ready was. Once i had that feel i new what to strive for on my own. Just because some one hones a razor for you one time it doesnt mean that you cant do it yourself from there on out. Maybe what you could try is if you ever purchase another razor order it from someone who pre hones them. This way you will have one shave ready razor and you can work to make you other razor match in sharpness. Hang in there dude you will get it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruce

6gun,
That's a good precis on honing. I've tried a very similar approach myself after asking a barber, who was trained on shaving, how he honed a razor. "Always use circles." he said. And wouldn't you know, it worked.

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My Grandfather taught me to do circles, in the short "teach you how to shave with a straight" session we had together. I imagine he learned that from his father. Next time I hone I'm going to give the circles another go, now armed with a little more information and confidence, that I hope won't be dashed. Thanks guys! :)

+1 on that Glen,

After watching lynn do that via the webcast (thanks web guys) I have been using this method with great success. The circles can really help out.

As mentioned above the bevel is probably not set yet. 1k stone will take some time to set a bevel on a razor that is plain dull. I use 1k Chosera, which is by far the most aggressive 1K I have used and it take some time to set a bevel with it. I'd suggest to go to a lower grit for a few passes to set the bevel right. Something in the 400-700 range.
Yesterday after spending some time on the 1k , I went back to my Bester 500 and did the work in no time.
Hope that helps.

Where are you located?

While Glen's formula is nice- just like he said though- if you haven't got a bevel, make sure you do another set of circles until you do have a bevel. Its not necessarily cut and dry- make sure its there. I am one of those 99 people who initially wasn't sharpening enough at low grits...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EzekielRage

Is it worth buying a book or something with some honing tips? I'd like to get good at it instead of relying on someone to do it for me - typical Alaskan I guess.

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I think the best -and the only- way to hone and sharpen a razor is just to keep practising until you are satisfied with the results. The more you practise the more you will also understand what are you doing with your hands, and how to get better if still needed.

I'm not saying that reading a book of honing would be bad, but with many 'traditional' skills, such as hand sharpening tools and knives, you can't succeed if you know the theory but not the practice :thinking:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hi there, and welcome to SRP...

I am going to give you a few hints here...
I am 99% sure your bevel is not set, why ??? because 99 out of 100 new honers don't get the bevel set before moving to the higher grit stones...
Even if the razor is "shaving" the pulling is because some spots are sharper and some are duller...

Since you have probably X stroked that thing to death already lets try something slightly different and try and pull that edge into shape...
If you have watched the Vids then you probably watched the one on the front page of Lynn at the NC Razorcon he introduced a new technique that I think is perfect for where you are stuck....

I call it the "40 circles to sharp", what is really slick about it is that 1. it works 2. it eliminates a ton of guess work and 3. it eliminates much of the flipping of the razor and x strokes...

Using lapped flat stones...

Soak the 4k/8k and then do 40 counterclockwise circles with medium pressure starting at the top of the 4000 grit stone moving to the bottom. Do 40 clockwise circles from bottom to top...

Rinse the stone, now starting at the top do 40 counterclockwise circles top to bottom using light pressure this time, again reverse this from bottom to top...

Switch to the 8k do 10 slightly heel forward laps straight up and down...
rinse the stone do 10 very exact and perfect X strokes..

Rinse the stone and here is my trick to getting the most out of the Norton 8k very very light very slow X strokes about 10-20 as the stone dries once the stone dries stop...

Stropping off the hones is different then everyday stropping...
My routine is 50 linen and 100 leather off the hones Half that everday...

Give that a try and see what happens...:)

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Hey Glen, nice bit of advice. I too am having a bit of difficulty with one blade and I am going to try this. However, what your instructions don't say is when to flip the blade to do the other side.
Do you flip after your first trip down the stone and go back up? Or do you go down and back up then flip?
I hope I am not confusing anyone other than myself LOL.
Thanks,
Bill