Problems maintaining a "shave ready" razor

I seem to be having problems maintaining a "shave ready" razor. After reading the Wiki on honing, I am lead to believe that I should be able to maintain a razor for a long period of time with a strop and an occasional "touch up" with a finishing hone.

I am only able to get several shaves out of a razor with just a strop before I need to put it to a hone. Once the edge starts to degrade, I have tried individually and in combinations a Naniwa 12K, a barber hone and a bench hone with CrOx to touch up the razor. These hones were not aggressive enough for me to bring the edge back to where I wanted. I generally have to go back to a Norton 4000/8000 and then to the Naniwa 12k using short pyramid progressions and finishing with the CrOx. I am obviously doing something wrong.

How frequently do you "touch up" your razor and how far down the progression of hones do you go once the starts to pull or the razor becomes less efficient?

Would you mind telling us how exactly you strop your razor? Speed, pressure, grip, wrist position?

What kind of razor ? Was it professionally honed for you when you got it ?

if you are only getting a few uses out of it before it needs attention the chances are it wasn't really shave ready to begin with. That's why you need to go back to the coarser hones. A truly shave ready razor should give a minimum of 10 shaves and many get many, many more before needing a touch-up and then a 12K type should quickly do the job.

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Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Would you mind telling us how exactly you strop your razor? Speed, pressure, grip, wrist position?

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Itry and keep the speed slow and consistent. I would say it is a 1000, 2000 count in each direction. The pressure is light with only enough pressure so there is contact with the strop and the following edge of the blade. It is mainly the weight of the blade.

The grip might be a problem. I place my thumb and the first finger on the top and bottom of the tang. It result in a push and pull of the blade. My strop is on an angle and might result in different pressure. There is at times a different sound coming from the strop + razor when I pull the razor back. I thought it was just the direction of the blade. I will keep an eye on this. I try and keep my wrist on the same plane as the strop.

Thank you for your help.

What is your straight razor? My Dovo Tortoise is a soft one that I need to keep touched up with my pasted strop every two shaves. My other razors can go about 5 shaves before visiting the pasted strop for a touch up. They have not been honed since January 09, but I suspect its coming some day, but good stropping with the leather and sometimes a touch up with the pasted paddle (3 sides pasted .5/1.0/3.0 Cromox, 1 side 1.0 diamond) strop keeps them all performing well. Each razor has over 20 shaves on it and still going.

Your are in the process of getting to know your razor and how to maintain it to your preference. Once you get it sharpened up again, try to get about 5 shaves on it before you give it a few strokes on the barber hone or the 12K to tune it up again. It sounds like you want your very sharp, so keep going and you will figure it out.

Pabster

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

What kind of razor ? Was it professionally honed for you when you got it ?

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First I want to thank you for the reference to the honing and stropping section of the old barber manual that you mentioned in one of your previous posts. I will be reading it again this weekend and will try and apply the information during my weekend shaves when I have more time to play.

Ihave a small collection of razors that I have gathered. Two of the razors were new and professionally honed when I got them. Two of my razors belonged to my grandfather and I had sent them out to be cleaned and honed.They were the razors along with SRP that got me started with this new adventure. The rest of my razors were purchased through eBay so that I could try different razors and practice my honing skills. All of the razors are of good quality including my eBay razors.

The razors that were honed profesionally lasted longer than the razors I honed but they got dull faster than what the Wiki implies.

I must be doing something wrong with my routine.I got my nephew started with straight razors recently and gave him three of my eBay razors that I cleaned up and honed along with a CrOx charged bench hone and a Tony Miller practice strop.. According to my nephew, the razors are still giving him good service.

Thank you for your guidance.

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Originally Posted by lesshairy

I must be doing something wrong with my routine.I got my nephew started with straight razors recently and gave him three of my eBay razors that I cleaned up and honed along with a CrOx charged bench hone and a Tony Miller practice strop.. According to my nephew, the razors are still giving him good service.

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I don't know if this is good evidence that your nephew can maintain a razor better than you're able. You and your nephew may have different opinions as to what "good service" is. I'd have him bring a razor over and test shave with it, if you really want to see for yourself.

Not that that's necessary or anything. :) You already know you're not happy with your shaves.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

if you are only getting a few uses out of it before it needs attention the chances are it wasn't really shave ready to begin with. That's why you need to go back to the coarser hones. A truly shave ready razor should give a minimum of 10 shaves and many get many, many more before needing a touch-up and then a 12K type should quickly do the job.

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I am currently using a straight razor only on the weekends. I do not have the time to attempt to save daily with a straight at this point in the learning curve. I find I do much better with a straight razor when I take my time and do the pre-shave steps with a hot towel etc.

When I do get to use a straight I take my time and try for the BBS. I will do three passes plus touch up.With a sharp blade I will get an acceptable shave with two passes. But I enjoy the shave and will tend to do three or four passes plus touch up as I try and learn beard direction and technique.

If you count passes, I will get around 15 or so passes with a shave ready razor.

I have had several razors profesionally honed. I seem to dull a razor regardless of who honed it.

Thank you for your help.

If you think you might be rounding the edge during stropping, try placing the strop on the edge of a table while stropping. That eliminates all sagging, and reduces the chances of edge rounding. Do that a few times. If your edge doesn't dull as quickly, or if it dulls at about the same speed, either way you have learned something.

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Originally Posted by keenedge

I don't know if this is good evidence that your nephew can maintain a razor better than you're able. You and your nephew may have different opinions as to what "good service" is. I'd have him bring a razor over and test shave with it, if you really want to see for yourself.

Not that that's necessary or anything. :) You already know you're not happy with your shaves.

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My nephew went back to college so I am sure I will talk with him next time he is in town. I lent him several razors so he could try different razors and help him decide what he likes in a razor before he purchases a razor of his own. With his beard growth he needs to save only several times a week. I shave daily. If I go out in the evening, I may save a second time.

How much does the coarsness of the beard play into the frequency of touch up?

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Originally Posted by lesshairy

With [my nephew's] beard growth he needs to save only several times a week.

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Thick beard or thin, most 20 somethings seem to have a 2 day stubble at all times. How do you do that! Is there a spacer they put over their razors so "just a little" is left growing in the yard? I've offered a few 20 somethings a free shave, and a BBS guaranteed shave to boot. They turned me down.

I feel sorry for the younger generation. But, I feel proud of the many younger men we have here who are genetically superior to their cohorts!

Anyone a Red Green fan? Red says, "The younger generation is so violent. Makes me want to slap them!"

(Please! Everyone, this is for fun. :) :) :) :) :) :) )

Thank you for your feedback. It helped me to think about the problem. I pulled out my favorite razor today and started from scratch, started with 1000 grit hone to.make sure I had a good starting point, resharpened it following the pyramid in the Wiki with a Norton 4000/8000, then moved on to 15 to 20 strokes on a Naniwa 12k, 20 strokes on an 8" bench hone with CrOx + 10 strokes on an 8" felt bench hone with .25 diamond spray. I then stropped it 100 times, leather only.

I took my time, reviewed the honing and stropping wiki, watched the stropping videos, paid extra attention to my strokes, body position, etc.

The main things I did differently this time was I used the stropping grip shown in the barber manual, used more pressure when stropping so the sound of the draw was more consistent in both directions and did not use the linen strop on a newly honed razor as stated in the barber manual.Plus I stropped 100 strokes on the leather. My typical stropping is 20 to 25 linen and 40 to 50 on leather.

Todays shave was nice and comfortable. I will be more careful with my stropping technique and see how the edge holds up.

Thanks again.

Thought so. The barber manual should be shipped with the sign-up email. Such a little thing, such a big difference. Glen's said it before, it's all in the stropping. The "flip the razor, not your wrist" thing can make all the difference.

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Itry and keep the speed slow and consistent. I would say it is a 1000, 2000 count in each direction. The pressure is light with only enough pressure so there is contact with the strop and the following edge of the blade. It is mainly the weight of the blade.

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I remember, a long time ago, an experiment by members of the SRP into stropping speed and the consequences thereof. Slow stropping was judged to be a waste of time. Good razors, well honed, rapidly became uncomfortable shavers. When swift stropping was resumed, BBS was restored.
I would suggest that you increase your stropping speed as fast as your skill allows.

Those must have been wise men. Good ol' barbers manual.

I've been using the same blade about 5-7 times a week for the past year and a half possibly longer, and it hasn't had to go back on a hone yet. just a 20-30 pass stroping before each use and once a week it goes on a pasted strop for about 30 strokes. Only shave after getting out of a hot shower, cuts like butter.

+1 on checking your stropping technique. Let us know if it helps,

-Chief

A bit of pressure while stropping is ok. The edge of a razor is fine but not fragile.
To much emphasis is placed on using a feather lite stroke while stropping.
My strop deflects about 1/2" - 1" when I strop.

Just my $.02,:)