blade still tugging -- tried everything!!

So it's been about a month since I started str8 shaving. Definitely developing my skills. I read every guide on the site, started slowly, working up to a full-face shave. My equipment has improved too. went from boar brush to a silver-tip badger, and from a no-brand soap to some nice SRD soap with a dollop of shave cream thrown in for some moisture.

At the beginning I naturally had difficulty with the chin and mustache. My blade (5/8" hollow ground dovo carbon-steel) would tug at the course hairs and it was only with difficulty and pain that I was able to cut through the hairs. And my shave has never been all that close anyways.

I've started stretching the skin more, which is helping, but the difficulty with the chin is still awful. I've tried everything to make it better: different blade angles and approach angles, different stroke lengths, different stropping techniques, different lathers and beard prep, even got my razor freshing honed by SRD. Even straight from the honing, my blade was relentlessly tugging at the chin hairs. I can't figure out what the deal is!

I only have two ideas left. The first one is, I need to somehow do more skin stretching around the chin. I try tightening the skin by pulling my lower lip over my teeth, but the skin still feels not very taught. Any recommendations on how to stretch skin better around the chin?

My second idea is that a hollow ground blade isn't a good fit for my whiskers. Would something closer to a wedge be better at chopping away these coarse whiskers? My beard all in all isn't very dense or thick, however the chin whiskers seem to be pretty coarse.

I've watched the shaving videos on the site, and people seem to be able to shave their face as if their hairs are melting away, but I seem to get more resistance to my blade all around my face. Perhaps my blade still isn't very sharp?

Jeez, this is getting frustrating... thanks for any suggestions anyone has.

and another thing, I have only once, with many repeated tries, been able to get the hanging hair sharpness test to work, which might put another point in the corner of not having my blade sharp enough.

my first question is, are you sure that the blade is completely shave ready, sounds like it has not been honed properly. i also had trouble with my chin and that area, but nothing like what you are describing. i stretch the skin with one hand while shaving and it does take getting used to. but again make sure that your razor is honed properly...good luck

If you are talking about the tip... end of your chin I take my forefinger on one side and my thumb on the other .... kind of like a U or a V and stretch toward my ears. I go from one side to the other with the razor. XTG not ATG. That is probably the toughest of the whiskers on my map. Sometimes the heel area of the razor is more effective on that because it is a bit stiffer even on a hollow ground.

I'm still struggling with this but getting a bit better. I don't have a full resolution for you but I have found a stretching technique that has helped some.

pull your lower lip over your teeth (you already said you are doing that).
using your off hand, put your fingers at the top center of your neck and stretch the skin down.

for me it seems stretching from both top and bottom like that seems to help a bit more. But I'm just a newb so what do I know.

Welcome to the great Hobby of Wet Shaving!! I've only been at it myself about 10 months or so, but this is something you might try to get a better shave. If your trying to learn str8 shaving AND str8 razor honing at the same time, slow that brain train down a bit and send your razor to one of the great Honemiesters available to you through the SRP site, Lynn Abrams is the 1st that comes to mind, the member called 'Utopia' did a great job for me also. When you get the razor back just wipe off the oil strop a bit if you like, do some really thourogh face prep and shave, you should notice a BIG difference and get a much closer shave than your 1st attemps at str8 honing did provide. I hope this helps. It shoud take at least one possible problem out of the bloody picture.

Have a good one and a Great Gd/day!!

tinkersd of SRP!!

Newbie to newbie, your blade is not sharp enough.

I didn't really appreciate this on my razors until I had one honed by Lynn and another from a classified seller here at SRP. All the tugging I first experienced and wrote off to my technique disappeared as soon as a truly well-honed razor touched my face. Now, mind you, the nicks, razor burn from too many enthusiastic passes and weird left over spots of hair from not paying enough attention to my shaving patterns didn't go away overnight. Those took practice with a sharp razor.

I am now learning to hone. I wish my razors good luck...

+1 to JimmyHAD

I believe it is the same with everyone, that the chin area has the TOUGHEST whiskers.

Do what Jimmy said, curl your lip over your lower teeth and use your other hand (pointer and thumb) and stretch the skin to either side. Sometimes I have to dry the sides I already shaved to get a good stretch going, so don't be afraid to try that too.

I never go ATG on the chin. I would just get razor burn. I find that 1, MAYBE 2 passes XTG gets my chin BBS. It's kinda weird, my chin is probably the easiest spot to get BBS :shrug: Not sure why that is...hehe.

*EDIT* And my razors did that even when they are sharp enough. So that's not the reason :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanS

....even got my razor freshing honed by SRD. Even straight from the honing, my blade was relentlessly tugging at the chin hairs.

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I took this to mean he did have a razor professionally honed, used it, and is still having problems.

EDIT: Sorry didn't see Dan had clarified this already.

Grow a Goatee!:rofl2:

Guess what, you and I are in the same boat. I have been working on shaving for about a month now (maybe about 12 shaves or so) and I have the same problem. I am thinking that my shaving technique stunk when I first got the razor from srp classifieds and then as my shaving got better my razor may have gotten a bit dull. Maybe my stropping technique is not perfect or something but I cant shave my chin no matter what I do. Also there are some other parts of my face that I just grit my teeth and rip that razor through:mad:. Ok, maybe 'ripping' is a little strong I just mean that I go ahead and get a little razor burn if it won't shave easy (I don't want to be the cause of any bad cuts here). I think that most of it is just experience, I plan to keep on trying and fidgeting with angles, stretching and trying to keep the rough areas moist.

I keep reminding myself that (think it was on that "newbies read this first" thing) that it takes about 100 shaves to get the hang of it. :gl:

JP

Read this post here. It is a good one and might give you something to go with.

Sounds like we have similar issues with the chin area. My beard is not thick but the whiskers in this area are coarse. I have battled with the same problem with the hairs pulling when shaving the chin. It didn't matter if the razor was honed by me or a professional, I still had problems with the chin.

The biggest help for me was stretching the skin. Stretching plus going to a lower angle and a much shorter stroke has made a big difference. As my shaving technique improves I tend to have less problems.

Good luck

Just a question for you...are you carefully stropping the blade just before each and every shave? For how many roundtrip laps?
Hanging strop or paddle strop?

Dan,

Chances that the razor is not shave ready when Lynn honed it are minimal, to say the least. Sorry, but in 9 out of 10 cases (more like 99%, really) when a beginner says the blade is not shave ready, it is. Incidentally, I would call your razor a perfect beginner's razor, as it isn't overly complicated to use (compared to a 3/8 or an 8/8 wedge).

Seeing a barber's might not be such a bad idea. Bring your own razor, ask him to shave you with it. Who knows, it maybe something simple that keeps you from getting acceptable shaves.

Good luck,
Robin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Dan,

Chances that the razor is not shave ready when Lynn honed it are minimal, to say the least. Sorry, but in 9 out of 10 cases (more like 99%, really) when a beginner says the blade is not shave ready, it is. Incidentally, I would call your razor a perfect beginner's razor, as it isn't overly complicated to use (compared to a 3/8 or an 8/8 wedge).

Seeing a barber's might not be such a bad idea. Bring your own razor, ask him to shave you with it. Who knows, it maybe something simple that keeps you from getting acceptable shaves.

Good luck,
Robin

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+1 on that from me, this will give you a very good idea of whats going on, the Barber will tell you within 1 or 2 strokes if your Razor is at fault, and if He is a friendly guy he may even give you some pro advice and tips

And hey on top of all that you will have the pleasure of a wonderful relaxed Barbers shave... Bargain!

Pardon me if I missed it, but razor angle did not seem to be mentioned.
Try an extremely low, 'back of blade close to skin', may help.

Hi,
Aside from stretching the skin, have you tried making your first pass from a different direction? If the first pass is not "WTG", I can see how you'd get tugging even from a properly honed razor. I had this problem with my neck--- I was doing my first pass from my jaw all the way down my neck, and the lower half of my neck would get irritated. Then I realized my lower neck hair grows *up* instead of *down*-- so now I need to split the direction of my first pass.

Keep at it-- once you figure it out you'll never go back...

-Chief

Just a thougth 'er 2, if your str8 razor is sharp enough and you are stretching your face as well as you can, then two things come to mind, first the razor angle, if you think about the actual angle of a razor bevel, and just how it would attack the bottom of the wisker itself, you will realise just how shallow[razor flat against the face] the razor should be, eccept of course at the very places that you will need a fairly steep attack as I do just under the nose on the upper lip. Another point is face prep, can not insist just how much hot water and scrubbing the beard needs to be supple enough for a good shave, lots of washing, followed by lots and lots of hot water in the rinse, a good pre shave can be very good for many beards, I use Proraso pre-shave for pre/and post shave use's. A couple of minutes with a very hot and moist towel against the face works wonders for me also. Well ENOUGH of my prattle, this is what seems to work well on MY beard, hope it helps for you.

Have a bloody great G/day' and try to enjoy the
recession as best you can!! tinkersd of SRP!

Thanks everyone. I am thinking now my beard prep might not be up to snuff. I have been shaving right after showering: put on some pre-shave oil (that my local barber shop swears by), do a hot towel, and then let some lather sit on my face for a few minutes while i strop. Some folks have mentioned doing the hot towel treatment for a few minutes, and I only do it for say, 10 seconds... The towel gets cool quickly so i figured i didn't need to hold it to my face for very long. I'll try doing it for a couple minutes next time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Just a question for you...are you carefully stropping the blade just before each and every shave? For how many roundtrip laps?
Hanging strop or paddle strop?

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I strop before and after each shave. I have a Proforma hanging leather strop I purchased from a SRP member, and I think it's great :). I've tried different stropping techniques to see if I notice a difference, but i haven't really. I usually do about 30-50 roundtrips.

Anyone think the grind of the blade makes a difference? Does it just vary how heavy the blade feels, or does it cut the hairs differently?

update!

So I just shaved, trying a few suggestions. I let some hair conditioner sit on my beard during the shower, used a hot towel for a couple minutes, and pulled down on the skin right under my chin while shaving that area. And damn if it didn't give me a better shave. It still tugged slightly, but a whole lot less than it did before. And it was a closer shave! Next time I'll try some XTG and I bet it'll be nice and smooth.

Thanks everyone!!

Your prep seems fine. A shower moisturizes the whiskers fully, hot towels after a shower are not going to hydrate already 100% hydrated hairs even more.

Pre-shave oil is something that may have a long term effect on your skin condition, but it is not going to soften the beard or make it easier to shave in some magical way. There's even the possibility of overdoing it, which could interfere with your shave. (however not that much that it would result in heavy pulling).

Not sure what you mean with different stropping techniques. But as long as the spine of the razor stays in touch with the strop at all times, your stropping will be fairly adequate.

Skin stretching. It affects how close the shave will be. And it also helps to prevent against nicks. But it does little to prevent tugging.

The only parameters that influence how easily a razor severs the hairs (resulting in a pulling sensation if things are not what they should be) are:
-beard prep, which is fine in your case.
-shaving angles
-razor sharpness

As far as shaving angles are concerned, there's a Wiki article you've probably already read, that addresses the finer points. Read from here on.

As for razor sharpness. I have a quote of Sherlock Holmes for you: "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. "
Have that razor checked.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Remember Dan, str8 shaving is a lot of little things that all add up to give the perfect shave, lots of non shaving things have an effect e.g. your frame of mind, the time of day, etc etc
Good luck and keep at it mate, btw if you are looking to get your razor checked? Sir Bart who posted above mine is by all accounts a true Master. and from my own experience I know He is a True gent

Best wishes with it all
Ralfy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DanS

Thanks everyone. I am thinking now my beard prep might not be up to snuff. I have been shaving right after showering: put on some pre-shave oil (that my local barber shop swears by), do a hot towel, and then let some lather sit on my face for a few minutes while i strop. Some folks have mentioned doing the hot towel treatment for a few minutes, and I only do it for say, 10 seconds... The towel gets cool quickly so i figured i didn't need to hold it to my face for very long. I'll try doing it for a couple minutes next time.



I strop before and after each shave. I have a Proforma hanging leather strop I purchased from a SRP member, and I think it's great :). I've tried different stropping techniques to see if I notice a difference, but i haven't really. I usually do about 30-50 roundtrips.

Anyone think the grind of the blade makes a difference? Does it just vary how heavy the blade feels, or does it cut the hairs differently?

---

It sounds like your improving your beard prep...thats good, continue it and also the stretching and pay attention to the blade angle while your shaving.

Stropping... you've experimented with different stropping techniques...???.. ok that may indicate one of the problems.
Most of the new guys try to strop far to fast while paying no attention to see if the edge is contacting the leather. Please... slow down the stropping stroke and make sure the edge is making contact with the leather. The other possibility is that you may have slightly rolled the edge, rounded, by improper stropping. One thing you can try is instead of using the strop while hanging just lay it flat on a countertop and strop for 200 roundtrip laps, very slowly. What this will accomplish is that you can make sure the edge is making contact and it just may restore the edge.

If after doing all the above the razor still tugs at the whiskers then send it off to have the razor lightly rehoned.

Just my $.02, :)

You mentioned you use a full hollow.Maybe you need to try a wedge or a half hollow.It might not be the razor at all,you just might need a stiffer grind.Just a thought.:hmmm:

One thing you can try to see if a wedge or a quarter grind razor will help is to shave your chin with the heel of your razor. A while back I read a post by another SRP member who suggested to try shaving with the heel of the razor The blade tends to be more stiff towards the heel.

I noticed a slight difference when I tried this. Now when I use a full hollow razor I try and use the heel of the razor when shaving my chin.

I did end up buying a 1/4 grind razor and I love it. I still have several full hollow razors in my rotation that give me great shaves I just adjust my shaving technique to the particular razor.

It boils down to getting to know your razors and what works for you.

I say try using different parts of the blade on your face. I started using the heel of the blade on my chin one day because that part seemed to be the sharpest on my dull blade. I was pleasantly surprised how smooth and close that part of the blade shaves.