Against the Grain

I've been trying to learn to shave with both hands. I can do pretty decently with the grain with both hands. However, for some reason, I just can't get the hang of against the grain for a second pass.

When I try to shave against the grain I find the razor 'sticking'. It's hard to make any sort of motion that doesn't tug, pull or just fell like it's about to dig in and cut me. My strokes aren't very smooth or consistent. The results of such a shave seems to be a lot like shark skin; smooth and slick when running my hand with the grain and sandpaper against.

I'm wondering if there are any tips or tricks I'm just not understanding. Maybe there are factors I just haven't taken into account. Razor keenness, re-lathering, razor grip, or something.

I've adjusted my grip a few different ways. I've even looked over the pictorial someone posted here about different razor grips. I try to stick to these grips instead of making up my own.

I've tried to reduce the angle I hold the razor at but it's difficult when going the opposite direction. It's also seems like I'm nearly laying the blade flat, perhaps reducing the angle too much.

I've tried re-lathering after the first pass to see if this helps. It seems to make almost no difference in my ability to make a stroke. Maybe my lathering skills are still less than desirable.

Honestly, I can't vouch much for my razor keenness. I've always been one of those crazier guys who didn't use soap, cream, or anything like that when shaving with my Mach 3, water was enough. So my straights seem sharp as can be with how easily they glide in the lather with the grain. I'm not sure if keenness (or lack of it) would affect ease of use in varied directions.

My biggest suspect is technique. Since I can go with (and even across) without much difficulty I suspect that my real problem is coordination with the opposite direction. If I can get over this learning curve and it's normal to have troubles like this only a few weeks into the straight shaving endeavors then I have more hope that simple practice will help out in the long run.

Any ideas or suggestions from anyone?

yeah it's normal to have difficulty at this stage.
the razor has to be rather sharp, your beard well softened, and the angle low.

how about doing across the grain, would that work better?

I'd try a three pass shave, WTG, XTG, ATG for now. Eventually you may decide you can skip the XTG pass, although I personally like the feeling of getting the whiskers progressively shorter with each pass.

One thing I didn't see you mention was stretching. When I do my ATG pass, I pull down on the neck skin to make it taut. That helps a lot. Then using a fairly flat angle, take short, small strokes on your way up. It takes some practice. I'm still working on my left hand.

If you apply too much lather for the ATG pass, that might help the razor to "stick" to your face.

I use both hands for the first two passes, WTG and XTG but for my final pass ATG I only use only my dominant hand for both sides of my face and have not problems doing so.

Marc

I'm pretty new to this as well, and I have never bothered with the XTG pass, even when using a DE. Instead I do a WTG all over, XTG on my neck and ATG on my face, then an ATG all over.

What works best for me is: On that first ATG face pass, I keep me razor at a slightly steeper than normal angle. I'm talking about as steep an angle as the WTG pass. It seems to get things trimmed nice and short so that my final ATG pass can be made at a nice shallow angle for a BBS shave with no sticking at all.

Hope that helps
Drew

I can not go ATG after just one pass. I have to WTG, XTG both directions before ATG. In fact during the 3 pass since I can't do a XTG on my neck very well I do a very light ATG on my neck using a single stroke. My beard is murder. Another thing about the ATG pass is to make sure that you are laying the blade down a lot more than you would with the other passes.


Take Care,
Richard

Also play around with the direction you stretch the skin. For ATG on my cheeks (going S-N), I stretch the skin up (N), which helps make the wiskers stand up more vertically. If you stretch the skin down (S), you'd be making the wisker angle even steeper.

-Chief

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Originally Posted by keenedge

One thing I didn't see you mention was stretching. When I do my ATG pass, I pull down on the neck skin to make it taut. That helps a lot. Then using a fairly flat angle, take short, small strokes on your way up. It takes some practice. I'm still working on my left hand.

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+1. When I first tried it I didn't have much luck. I just went with the grain and the results were fine so I didn't give it a second thought. However, I decided to change my technique a little and the next thing I knew it was easier than going with the grain. I think stretching is very important, but I think you also need to know the limits of your skin. I go at it and don't care whether it cuts my face up - and funnily enough it rarely does.

Yes, I did forget to mention stretching. That has been a technical downfall as well. I've tried with pulling down on my neck but maybe I should try different angles to see if they work better.

I think there's a lot of merit in the WTG, XTG, ATG pattern though. Progressively shorter whiskers might be easier to deal with. I think I'm trying to get too much done too fast in that respect.

Would thinning the lather (or not using any at all / rewetting the face only) be better than using a fuller / thicker lather? I see that it can add to the 'stick' effect but I'm not sure what adjustments to play with in that respect.

I do two passes: WTG and ATG. I keep the razor more like 40-45 degrees for the WTG pass. On the ATG pass I hold the razor on the shank between my thumb and pointer finger and let the tang (monkey tail ?) rest against the meat at the base of the thumb. This allows an almost springy touch to the razor. The meat there acts as a shock absorber. On the ATG pass I lay the blade almost flat just keeping the spine of the blade off my skin and use a very light touch...the cushioning affect helps keep the pressure light. With this technique I get a BBS shave almost every morning.

You might make sure the blade is honed and stropped properly. I touch up my blade about every third week.

If all of the suggestions made so far don't help, there is nothing wrong with making up your own grip...whatever works for you is best.

Oh yes, the stretching is a must. You might also try a stroke that is kind of like a pivot letting the point lead. You must be careful tho. The pivot point should be at the end of the tang.

My Personal opinion will be DON'T shave against grain.

when i start straight razor shaving i had problems to get close shave. That pushed me learn how to shave against the grain.
This made me happy i mean very happy . Seems like i was proud of myself.
Time goes on you shave more and learn.
The day come up i get pretty good on straight razor shaving.
Now i start to make experience.
it was try to shave each half of my face differently and see what happens.
I did.
1 st half i will call wtg+AGT
2 half is wtg +xtg

The results were

1 st half of my face was the closest shave. hair grow in 3 days.
skin was feeling not good.
2 nd hald face was close to ATG HAIR grow was in 2 days
skin was feeling very smooth and nice.

My result.
By doing against the grain we do scrape the skin including it is protective function decrease.
But after xtg i didn't have that feeling i felt great.

Now pick you choose and good luck

WTG, XTG & ATG are useful concepts, making it easier to understand the concept of pass directions. In your case, I think you need to temporarily forget about WTG, XTG and ATG. Rather, approach it like this....

WTG works fine...
What angle works best after WTG? That might be 45 degrees toward the ATG. It might be less or more.

Just keep increasing the degrees, maintaining comfort with every pass, until you get to ATG. Or, better stated, until you get the shave you desire, which might not require getting to ATG.

Work it by degrees, without obsessing on 90 degree increments...

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Originally Posted by ionthejester

Yes, I did forget to mention stretching. That has been a technical downfall as well. I've tried with pulling down on my neck but maybe I should try different angles to see if they work better.

I think there's a lot of merit in the WTG, XTG, ATG pattern though. Progressively shorter whiskers might be easier to deal with. I think I'm trying to get too much done too fast in that respect.

Would thinning the lather (or not using any at all / rewetting the face only) be better than using a fuller / thicker lather? I see that it can add to the 'stick' effect but I'm not sure what adjustments to play with in that respect.

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I also just want to mention that if you do multiple passes, you don't need to do repetitive strokes. In other words, you don't need to do 2 WTG strokes over the same spot. This will leave your face more raw than it needs to be.

Typically, I go WTG, XTG, and ATG. Each time, just doing enough strokes to get the shave soap off and whatever lies underneath it. Anything that's left will be levelled on subsequent passes. More passes = more irritation. You'll find that if you go lightly, pass the same spots 3 times from 3 directions, you'll not only have a good close shave, but your skin will feel great afterwards.

Of course, those passes take practice, but if you can master that, your face will thank you.

I'm not sure about this because I can't quite remember, but I get the feeling that skin adjusts too. For my first few shaves I think my skin was a bit softer, but after that it seemed to become a little more taught, like it knew what was coming and adapted. Would anyone care to back me up on that?

Don't put too much emphasis on going precisely ATG. Your best angle might be...

20 degrees from true ATG. Or,
20 degrees from true ATG, but with a slight scything motion. Or,
20 degrees from true ATG, but with a slight scything motion, with blade at 20 degrees elevation instead of the typical 30 degrees.

I'm a newb and have been having the same problem. From the advice I've gotten on the forums, they fall into these categories:

1. Your razor is not as sharp as it needs to be for a comfortable ATG pass.
2. Stretching is the key to a close, comfortable shave. Stretch the skin ATG so that your blade can catch the hairs easier.
3. For ATG passes, a more watery lather is preferred.
4. Very shallow blade angle for ATG passes, almost flat to the skin.

The last 3 are easier to vary, but none of those will help if your blade isn't sharp enough. You can check out some of the sharpness tests on the Wiki, but the shave is the ultimate sharpness test. Do you have any tugging problems going WTG or XTG?

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Originally Posted by DanS

1. Your razor is not as sharp as it needs to be for a comfortable ATG pass.
2. Stretching is the key to a close, comfortable shave. Stretch the skin ATG so that your blade can catch the hairs easier.
3. For ATG passes, a more watery lather is preferred.
4. Very shallow blade angle for ATG passes, almost flat to the skin.

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+1. Nicely put.
:)

+1 on all the above - sharpness, stretching, etc.

I found that practicing various non-lethal activities with my weak hand - such as whipping up lather - helped gain coordination. Try just one small area at a time and don't worry about going back to your strong hand if you need to. After that just practice, practice, practice.

You didn't mention how long you had been at it but it does take time to develop your technique. I shave wtg with both hands but find myself going atg with only my right hand almost all the time. I always re-lather between passes.

Rich

“If man could be crossed with a cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat.” – Mark Twain

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Originally Posted by Richard

You didn't mention how long you had been at it but it does take time to develop your technique. I shave wtg with both hands but find myself going atg with only my right hand almost all the time. I always re-lather between passes.

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If you'd like to develop your technique I'd suggest sitting down with a blunt razor and practicing the different types of strokes, etc. I think when you have a clear idea of how you want to shave each part, have practiced the strokes until you can do it smoothly, and have some confidence that it will work switching to a sharp razor is quite easy.

:gth