Delving Into Honing: Which Pastes to Start?

So a while back I bought my first (shave-ready) straight razor from the classifieds, and haven't looked back. Shaving has become the highlight of my day, and I'm constantly reading up on better ways to get that baby-smooth face. However, I find myself increasingly drawn to honing -- I've worked a good bit with tools in the workshop before, and can't wait to get the hang of sharpening my own razors! Not coincidentally, my razor is starting to lose that super-fine edge it once had...

Hence this post. I've been doing some reading, and I think I'm going to go with a 4" 8k DMT diamond whetstone (4" Diamond Whetstone™ Extra Extra-Fine - W4EE - The Consumer Link, safe link) instead of a larger one (to save some cash), and a 4-sided combo paddle strop from the well-shaved gentleman (as an "all-in-one strop")

Now, my questions are:

1) Will the 4 1/3” x 7/8” x 3/16” stone be too small? It also looks like the finish is bonded in a pattern instead of uniformly over the entire hone, as it is in the larger sizes. Will this be a problem? I'm trying to save money by going smaller, but I don't mind shelling out for a quality hone to save myself trouble later.

2) What pastes should I get for the strop? With the combo I get 3 sides for paste, so I'm thinking 1 micron, .5, and .25, but will 1 micron be too fine for a beginning honer? I'm worried that going with 3, 1, and .5 will be too rough, and 3, 1, .25 will wear out the .25 micron pretty fast.


I've got another strop to play with so that I don't damage the awesome one from the WSG until I'm a stropping pro.

Thanks!

Amazon.com: Norton Waterstone Starter Kit: 220/1000 grit stone, 4000/8000 grit stone, SiC flattening stone: Home Improvement


Save more and get everything you NEED here that DMT is not for razors...

Well I've also got some old razors I've picked up from ebay and the like, and I'd like to bring them back to shave-ready condition. None are in terribly bad condition, but they're definitely in need of some honing.

So then I'm leaning towards the DMT 8EE (as seen here: http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/T!D8.htm )and a 3, 1, 0.5 chromium oxide pasted strop. I've head that this gives pretty good results. Eventually I'll probably try to pick up a coarser stone along with a chinese 12k somewhere down the line.

Oh, and on wellshavedgentleman, Tony mentions that chromium oxide is no longer available for his 4-sided strops. How's the edge coming off .5 diamond versus chromium oxide? I'll be picking up some Cr2O3 as well, but I'm curious.

Here's a review I did on the W4EE. It has both advantages and disadvantages vs the D8EE. Either way, you'll need to break the hone in first. The D8EE might be a bit easier to learn on for a new razor honer. It's surface area is 6 times greater than the W4EE and is about 2 to 3 times faster, honing-time-wise. DMT did make the 2" x 6" "D6EE", but that was a limited run and not currently available; to my knowledge. That one would be my top EE choice, if you could find one.

Your 1u, 0.5u, and 0.25 choice looks fine to me, and the 0.5 Chromium Oxide is very popular. Some think the 0.25u can be a bit harsh, some love it. It's worth trying.

Edit: If you can't locate any chromium oxide, PM me and I'll send enough for 2 or 3 applications.

So you think the W4EE and W4E along with a pasted strop would be an OK setup to do some minor edge repair? Or would the small surface area make for too much of a headache for a beginner? I'm not averse to putting in a little extra time...

If I can pick those two up instead of the D8EE, I'll be in a great spot to get some of these razors back into shaving condition! I'll post some pictures of the blades in a bit (once my camera battery gets charged), so that you guys will have some idea of the jobs I'm looking at.

Thanks for all the help so far!

2" wide stones or bigger. If your stone is less than half the width of your blade length, honing becomes really awkward.

King 4k (which Im told is equivalent grit-wise to an american 8k) is dirt cheap. China 12k is dirt cheap. I'd recommend a King 4k and a 3" wide China 12k if all you want is to bring fading razors back. Combined it'll run you less than a Norton 8k costs by itself. Lap them once on glass or borrow a DMT XX, X, or C to lap them. I doubt you'll ever need to lap them again. (My King didn't really need lapping. It took all of 20seconds to completely flatten it, I don't know about the China's though).

Personally I can't imagine ever needing a 220grit stone for a razor. At that point, just use sandpaper or a rotary sander or dremel. And 1k and 4k don't seem necessary unless you are refurbishing razors or buying used ones that aren't honed by seller.

DEFINATELY don't get a 1" wide hone. Seriously. Bad. Bad bad bad. I'd have tried to hone one razor and said "F" it then sent it to someone on classifieds to hone if I'd tried to do it on a tiny thing like that.

As for the EE itself, I have no experience with it, but I hear mixed reviews. 2 or 3 people swear by it that I've seen, and the majority seem to say it's definitely not sufficient as a finisher. I will say the lower grit DMT's I've been using are awesome. I will guarantee that no wetstone in the world can compete with a F/E DMT block for performance at that grit level. That thing is damn near the perfect sharpening tool. (But again, you don't need that low of grit unless you are repairing razors).

Seriously if your razor is only worn from shaving use, you don't need a 1.2k (That's what the E is). 1.2k is what I use to put edges on butter-knifed razors. I don't even bother with .6k unless there's a chip I need to work out. Realistically a barber hone and strop is all you NEED for maintenance (the setup that worked for centuries)... but around here it seems 8k has replaced barber hone with ChromOx strop and/or 10k+ finishing stone as particularly desirable upgrades.

Right, I'm not going to get the .6k, just was thinking about the 1.2k and the 8k with a pasted strop as finisher. But as I said, I'm also going to be doing some minor repairs.

I've heard that china 12k's are a b**** to lap, so I think investing in a D8E would be necessary if I get one. Lapping on glass seems like asking for punishment. Any places you'd recommend buying the kings in the US? Google'd it and am mostly turning up ridiculously expensive places or European stores.

Which brings me back to the norton combo mentioned earlier. I still like the appeal of the DMTs, though, since they never need to be lapped and some say the DMT can take the place of both the 4k and 8k norton...

If I can find the Kings, I've heard that a 1k king, a dragon's tongue, and a 12k isn't a bad setup. Cheap, too.

For minor repairs and bevel setting, the diamond E 1200 is good.

The smaller surface area has pros and cons. If I was going to only own and sharpen 3 to 8 razors, the W4's will do it just fine. If you are new to sharpening, you may cut yourself several times until you get used to the thinness and smaller size of them (or not). If you will also sharpen the household knives or see yourself doing a dozen or more razors: then go with the D6E or D8E and the D8EE (the E is useful on knives, the EE usually only on the finer knives). I have a distinct personal preference for hones smaller than 2" x 6". You may develop a preference for the larger hones. The larger hones are quicker, whether or not that is a factor depends on you. If you like to work slow and precise, than go W4 and/or D6E. If you are more into speed and quicker results, go D6E or D8E and D8EE. If in doubt, get the bigger ones.

I think the W4s also help with developing a light, even stroke. If you don't use a light stroke the W4 hone will tend to move on you...

I much prefer diamond plates for 120 to 8k. But that's just me. If you aren't determined to get diamond plates: Glen's link is a great way to get a wide grit range and a sharp edge, at a decent price.

Edit: don't lap the C12k with the E, use a D8C or coarser.

Yeah, now I'm thinking that perhaps I'll grab a D8E (1200 grit) for now, and wait on the finer/more expensive hones. As you guys have mentioned, I'm not really going to need a 1.2k or an 8k for just getting my fading razor back, I've got my pasted strop for that. And Steven brings up a good point about sharpening home knives -- I have a bunch of kitchen knives that are on their last leg. Plus the 1200 will be great for any future lapping needs. I'll think on the D6EE and 8EE, maybe one of those in the near future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by surfreak

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Plus the 1200 will be great for any future lapping needs. I'll think on the D6EE and 8EE, maybe one of those in the near future.

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You posted this as I was editing my last post. Don't lap with the E. Use the D8C or coarser for that. Slurry has been known to strip the nickel on the E (or finer) hones.

Ooh. That's a bummer. Maybe I'll go with the D6E then...
Man, that really stinks. Do you think the D6C would be large enough to lap, say a 8x2x1 chinese 12k?

Lapping on glass is actually probably the easiest way to lap... just not convenient as it requires some setup. But if you have plenty of grit or sandpaper, you have a nice BIG surface that can easily be flushed, that means faster lapping. And you aren't stuck at 300grit (or whatever DMT you would be using). Try with a 220 piece of wet/dry... taking too long? Grab a 90 piece. You can always get it flat THEN go back to the 220.

Personally I'd buy a DMT coarse if you needed to lap a lot of stuff, but 1-3 stones, and then probably never again? I'd just do glass + paper.
Ice Bear Water Stones - Woodcraft.com

I like the larger D8XX or D8C for lapping. If you just need to lap the C12k, a granite or marble tile (~$5) from Lowe's or Home Depot and some wet/dry paper is good.

The D8XX or D8C make sense if you will do a lot of lapping over the long term.

Yup, I probably won't be doing much lapping, so I think I'll just grab the D6E for sharpening kitchen knives, then grab a king 4k and chinese 12k eventually.

So for lapping with glass or tile, do I just throw some sandpaper between the two and rub 'em good until they pass the pencil-grid test? If there's an FAQ or how-to on that, could someone please point the way?

http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...ing-101-a.html