Help with shaving techniques

Hey everyone,

I've been having some issues getting a smooth shave with my new Dovo Best Quality 5/8. I know it is honed correctly since Lynn honed it for me when I bought it, but I'm having a lot of trouble in my neck area. I was using a Fromm "hair shaper" that takes "feathers" and was having the same issues, but not to this extent. This morning I tried out my real str8 for the first time and it did awesome on my face for only doing one WTG pass, but on my neck the hair grows towards the back of my head and is much thicker, so it is very difficult to shave it correctly, especially in the areas right below my jaw line on either side of my adams apple. When I tried to do this area I gave up on trying to position the blade correctly to go WTG and just went NTS. Just like when I used the Fromm, the blade got caught up by the hair in that area on either side of the adams apple, so I went with short light strokes and got through it. Only when I did this I ended up with terrible irritation and one big nasty nick. I'm hoping maybe this is just due to the learning curve that comes with using a str8, but I also know that my facial hair is quite thick (considering I had to start shaving at 10 years old, it's quite well developed to say the least). I did strop it 20 passes before shaving and my stropping technique though slow, is quite solid. I showered and washed my face before shaving and used hot water, kept my face wet and lathered up to let it soak in while I stropped. I then lathered again to make sure it was good and went at it, making sure I was rinsing and wiping my blade as well (the way Lynn does in his DVD). I was using Tabac shave soap with a Simpson badger brush. I believe my angle was right since the upper part of the spot under my jaw line on either side went well, but maybe I'm wrong. I hope I've provided enough info for someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong or give me some tips. Also feel free to give any general tips on technique since I'm sure plenty of us newbies are running into these kinds of problems. I apologize if this is a repeat thread since I'm sure this is a common trouble spot for many of us new guys.

I wish I had better help for you but my hair is not very thick at all, and although I have had issues in this same area, it's not bad enough that it will stop the blade.

What I'm trying to get at is every face and hair is different so (from what I've read in many posts here) in the end all advice you get are only suggestions to help you find your stroke. In time you will figure out the technique best for your face.

I'm sure a few will eventually pop in here and throw you some good techniques to try and help lead you in the right direction by telling you what worked for them.

Now, even though I didn't have a good answer for your specific issue at least I managed to bump your thread up for some more attention.

:beer1:

For those trouble areas the most important thing is to stretch the skin to get the hairs to stand up, and to pull the area you are about to shave away from tricky land marks like your adams apple.

You may find that one way around this is to shave the bit of your neck just below your jaw line on both sides and leave the part under your chin for last. Then pull the skin from side to side to get the bit you need to shave away for your adams apple.

As TheBaron says, everyones face is different, with different hair thickness and direction of growth and its really part of the learning process to find a method that works for you.

There are some techniques and stretches that I use that probably wouldnt work for other people, but I've found that they are what works for me by experimenting and seeing how the shave turned out.

Give the stretching a try and see how that works for you!

Good luck!

I think most people would agree this is a difficult area, and it takes some time to learn to do it properly without having to do 20 passes and getting serious razor burn.
Another thing is, from my experience, it's much easier to get a closer shave with a disposable because they're usually a lot sharper/consistent. Like you, I learnt on a disposable and found it tricky getting the neck done properly when I switched to a normal straight. My advice, which is what I did, is sit on the couch/in front of the mirror and practice with a blunt straight. You want to practice all the different strokes, try and come up with some of your own to suit your face, and practice stretching the skin in all possible directions. And don't forget to read the wiki and other posts about it and you'll find you start integrating all these techniques into your routine and your shave will improve considerably.

Hope this helps a little,

Rob

Yeah, you'll need to find your secret combination of stretching and stroke that will unlock a smooth shave there for you. Note that neck hair can grow in different directions depending on where it is. You need to make sure that you do a WTG pass with the skin stretched the right way, only later try an XTG or ATG.

As an example, here is what works for me:

My neck hair growns down-right on the upper part of my neck, and grows up-right on the lower part of my neck (lucky for me it is more down and up vs. right)

For my first pass, on the upper part of my neck I lift the skin up (using my finger along the jawline and pulling up), then shave N-S, stopping midpoint where the hair changes direction.

For my first pass on the lower neck, I pull the skin down (finger above the collarbone, pulling down), and shave S-N.

Since my hair does grow a tad to the right, I'm actually not doing a pure WTG pass-- there is a bit of XTG in there but not much...

For the second pass, I have a hard time the neck shaving E-W or W-E, so instead I still go S-N or N-S depending on if I'm doing the upper or lower neck, but I kinda do a scything motion which puts a bit of horizontal movement into the stroke. For example, if I'm doing lower neck, second pass, I start at the ear side and work my way to the adams apple, going N-S. As I work my way towards the adam apple, I curve the stroke so that it moves a bit away from the adam apple and towards the ear (sill moving mostly N-S).

This second pass kinda combines an XTG and ATG in one stroke. I don't do a third pass on my neck, but this method gets me pretty darn close to BBS...

Also note, when I'm doing the second pass, I reduce the angle of the blade which also helps with reducing irritation.

Good luck finding your combination... if you have a swirly hair growth pattern it can be hard to figure out.

-Chief

I forgot to mention that you might also need to play around with the direction of the stretch-- for example, when I stretch the lower skin down, I also pull it a little bit away from the adams apple and towards the ear (so if the lower right quadrant, I pull the skin down and to the right a little). For some reason I get much less irritation when I stretch it that way vs. just straight down.

-Chief

As some of the poster above stated, the disposable blade razors have a more consistently sharp edge, so that may help shave in the neck area.

I have thick hairs too, and I've figured out the the only way I'm going to be able to get a good ATG pass at all is with a very sharp blade. Stropping just before the ATG pass seems to help, but skin-stretching was what really made the difference for me.

I tend to lather in 'quadrants' as I have to stretch the skin upwards, so I don't want to have lather in the regions where my fingers will be pulling on my skin. I'll do the neck throat area on the left side first, then the cheek are on the left etc. This way I'm always able to adequately stretch the skin while shaving. It also helps by not allowing the lather to dry on part of your face, as the ATG pass is invariably the slowest for me.

I guess I could lather more completely to start with if I shaved the upper half of my face first during the ATG pass, but, for some reason, I always do the lower part first.

:confused:

I think this is part of the learning curve as you mentioned.

Finding the best angle of attack when shaving multi-directional neck beard growth takes time and practice. Keep making adjustments and refining what works

For me there's a good combination of blade angle, angle of shaving, skin stretching, light pressure, length of stroke, and probably other things I am forgetting that works great for me. I can't remember each detail because it's something I learned through practice - it's hard to consciously put everything together at once but it'll come in time

Wolfman, I have similar problems with my neck. I find that If I use, rather than NTS, lateral motions, kinda South-West to North-East, that tends to work ok. I don't get much irritation, and, while it's not exactly BBS, it is pretty smooth from all but ATG rubs.

Here's hoping for you. :gl:
Keep us posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I think this is part of the learning curve as you mentioned.

Finding the best angle of attack when shaving multi-directional neck beard growth takes time and practice. Keep making adjustments and refining what works

For me there's a good combination of blade angle, angle of shaving, skin stretching, light pressure, length of stroke, and probably other things I am forgetting that works great for me. I can't remember each detail because it's something I learned through practice - it's hard to consciously put everything together at once but it'll come in time

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Good advice in all the previous posts.

Bumps can be caused by multiple interactions the
most common is shaving against the grain -- so no ATG.
My preference is to shave with the grain one pass
then I use the braille method to find places where a light
cross the grain pass is in order.

I have patches where my whiskers grow almost horizontal
and a too smooth shave will cause them to tunnel. I go for
a clean shave not a BBS shave most days.

When I need a "Close" shave it often give my face a starting dry rub
with my hand as it pulls the whiskers up and out a bit. After a dry
rub or a brisk ATG scrub with a wash cloth I rinse with clear water
then lather.

Lastly experiment with soap. Some just chap my face and
others work wonders. The interesting part is some that what
shave well today irritate my face so tomorrows shave stinks.
A minimum three day window is important when testing soap.

Try some sensitive skin soaps and some of the classic old ones.

High Glycerin soaps are a good start (they melt).
some are clear and look like Neutrogena's transparent
facial soap.

Highly processed soaps where the contents read like
a chemistry exam can be excelent. Some of the old
brands fall into this category. There is a reason they
are "old brands".

Good old hard triple milled shaving soap works well.

Read the ingredients of specialty soaps.
Tallow is good for some not others.
Lanolin is good for some not others.
Olive oil is good for some not others, OK on salads.
Avocado oil is good for some not others.
HoHoba oil for Christmas.

Avoid fragrances -- once you find a fragrance and dye free
version that your skin likes try the fragrance versions.....

Rinse, rinse, rinse. Soap left on the skin gives me
a rash which is why I shower after I shave.

Sanitation, use a CLEAN dry towel each day. The towel that
was tossed damp in the corner will begin to mildew
in hours and will give ya a rash. I like inexpensive
white cotton face towels that I can wash hot with a little
bleach and dry hot. Face/ shaving towels should be first seven
day set that we should all get.:)

Hey Baron, thanks for bumping my thread, I seem to have gotten a good number of replies with great tips in them after you did that! :rock:

I'd like to thank all of you who posted for all of your wisdom you've passed to me. I will definitely be looking into getting a set of towels specifically for this since the current hand towels I am using are leaving some lint behind on the razor. Any suggestions on where to pick up towels and what type (micro fiber, cotton terry etc. etc.) After looking into it more, I really do like the idea of shaving in quadrants to get the hang of figuring out the blade positions I should be using. I was shaving my whole face with little problem using the Fromm feather shaver as compared to my first real str8 shave, so I think this will help me get the feel of using the different style of razor. I did notice that when I was shaving with the Fromm I never stretched my skin, but when I did use my str8 the other day I did try stretching my neck, and that resulted in quite the large nasty nick and a lot of stinging from my styptic pencil :boohoo: So, maybe I will put stretching off for now until I get better at figuring out the angle I should using and controlling the blade. I think I may also try to put even more time into my face prep, I already spend a lot of time on the whole ordeal, but from what I've been reading there's no such thing as too much prep as long as your lather doesn't look like small mountains coming off of your face. I've been thinking about using a pre-shave oil, but haven't been able to find one locally. I am interested in trying it out, but the cost on SRD for such a small bottle seems a little risky should I find out it doesn't work. So, I've been thinking that maybe...just maybe baby oil would be a good alternative just to try out since it lubricates and helps the skin hold moisture. Any opinions on that?

A little off subject, but while I'm at it I've decided that when I'm done shaving I'll rinse the blade (and only the blade), wipe it from the spine side, dip it in alcohol, let it sit open for a while and air out, then put a thin layer of mineral oil on it. Does that sound like a good plan? Also since I've bought a large bottle of alcohol and another large bottle of mineral oil, any suggestions for how to go about applying them?

Anyway before this becomes more of a novel than it already is, I will be hopefully making another attempt tonight, but will use my SRD soap since that was suggested in the chat, and let you guys know how it goes. Thanks again!

So I tried out some of the advice you all gave me and did my shave in sections rather than concentrating on the whole thing. I also used the SRD soap I had (which is a great soap, I managed to get my lather to the consistency of Cool Whip and the Blood Orange smelled great) and made sure I had some clean towels. I took it slowly and ran into very few issues. Right below the jaw like I had some tough hair, but I managed to work out a good technique to whack it down using the toe of the blade. I also left those two trouble spots on my neck for last and was able to figure out a good angle and got that cut down too. End result was BBS on the face and probably one of the closest shaves I've had on my neck in a long time with no nicks whatsoever and very little irritation. Hats off to you guys!

However...I did something I'm really worried about. After cleaning and sanitizing my razor last night I was closing the blade and was holding onto the foot-end of the plastic scales while doing so. Apparently that was just enough pressure to push the sides of the scales in and the blade lightly touched and bit into the plastic a little. :boohoo: I spent probably 20 minutes looking at it in every different angle I could to see if I had bent the blade at all, luckily it looks like I didn't. Then I ended up stropping for about the next hour 10 passes on the canvas and probably 50 or more on the leather. I'm kind of worried, but I'll be testing it out again on Friday sometime and hopefully it will work, luckily though since I got it from SRD I've got free honing for life.

Wolfman, congrats on the bbs shave on your face!

Most guys around here will tell you that the key to a close shave is the stretch, but, I figure, if it works for you, there is, really, no right or wrong way to shave, so long as it doesn't burn, cut, nick, or pull. Keep it up, you'll find the way that works best for you, and then you'll really know what it is to enjoy, and look forward to, shaving.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfmanXIII

However...I did something I'm really worried about. After cleaning and sanitizing my razor last night I was closing the blade and was holding onto the foot-end of the plastic scales while doing so. Apparently that was just enough pressure to push the sides of the scales in and the blade lightly touched and bit into the plastic a little. :boohoo: I spent probably 20 minutes looking at it in every different angle I could to see if I had bent the blade at all, luckily it looks like I didn't. Then I ended up stropping for about the next hour 10 passes on the canvas and probably 50 or more on the leather. I'm kind of worried, but I'll be testing it out again on Friday sometime and hopefully it will work, luckily though since I got it from SRD I've got free honing for life.

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If the edge contacted the scales at all it's very likely that the edge was damaged (even though you couldn't see any damage). It is so delicate that it's unlikely to have escaped without some damage. Even minor edge damage could adversely affect your shave, to the point of cutting the skin in some cases.

The edge may have bent slightly, and your stropping may have re-aligned it, but still I'd be very wary of using a blade that 'bit into the plastic' of the scales.

I'm fairly new to this, but I don't do a lot of stretching either. In many areas of my face, that makes it harder to shave. When I pull the skin, I lose the flat surface. I know stretching is highly advised here, but I've found that I get a better shave in most areas without doing it.

Just my $.02. YMMV :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yohannrjm

If the edge contacted the scales at all it's very likely that the edge was damaged (even though you couldn't see any damage). It is so delicate that it's unlikely to have escaped without some damage. Even minor edge damage could adversely affect your shave, to the point of cutting the skin in some cases.

The edge may have bent slightly, and your stropping may have re-aligned it, but still I'd be very wary of using a blade that 'bit into the plastic' of the scales.

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Thanks for the heads up yohann! Completely understand what you're saying there about the blade being so delicate, especially considering it is a full hollow I'm afraid to use it half the time because I don't want to hurt it, haha. I'm going to strop it a bunch more before I use it again (probably tonight or tomorrow morning) and test it out since they say the best test is to shave with it. If I notice any problems I'll stop right away and definitely send it back to Lynn to have it honed back to good health again since I got the free honing for life on that one. I'll probably hold off on that though until I get my other str8 in the mail.

Thanks for the encouragement rcardon.

@hayduke I've noticed that there are some places where some stretching helps, but that trouble spot on my neck actually gets harder for the blade to pass over when I stretch it. I'll just have to figure it out on my own like everyone has been saying, but so far you guys have gotten me onto the right track. Cheers! :beer1:

I shaved again last night and was thinking about the stretching. While sitting on the couch I was experimenting stretching my skin lots of different ways and felt what it did to the whiskers. When I shaved, I did all kinds of stretching. I think it definitely helped in some areas, but there are parts of my beard that shave worse if stretched.

We all have different faces and beards, so we all have to shave differently. The trick is learning how to shave your face. ;)

Quick update on that, I got very very lucky so far. Forgot to post it, but after my straight had slightly bit into the plastic handle of my Dovo I stropped the hell out of it both on linen and leather. My next shave was still just as good as it's always been with my straight, so I think my stropping fixed whatever damage I may have done. phew!

It may or may not help, but I have always had issues on the neck thanks to the odd directions the whiskers grow.

Maintaining a proper (read shallow) angle and a LIGHT stroke has always helped.

I also have to keep in mind that each pass reduces, not eliminates the whiskers. Take you time and don't try to get everything in one passe (or ever two).