A Shoddy Workman always blames his tools

As a begginer I have been trying to gather resources that I have or can find cheaply. I work for a company that supplies shop tools to schools so I was able to get a single favor from my Buyer which got me a Norton 4000/8000. I have a couple of razors that I want to learn to hone but as Lynn stated in his DVD this is an art problem is I am no artist. I have a Koken Phoenix, J. Weiss & Sons, and a Palmer. Each has a challenge but right now it appears that I have a smile or frown that I want correct on the Koken???


OK, so this is what I currently have at my disposal:

• Norton 220/1000
• Norton 4000/8000 (new from work - free)
• (Old SRD) hone and strop combo from ebay
• Fine piece of bovine leather 6” x 14” from the woodworking store (This was sold for the purpose of making a paddle strop) I treated the smooth side w/ mink oil on Saturday – nothing on the rough side. I did that based on Lynn’s video stating that you could use strop dressing or mink oil to treat the leather. I have mink oil so to be resourceful I used it.
• Glass plate w/ .3 micron film (I could buy other film it’s pretty inexpensive)
• Older Leather strop – I got it with a pair of barber chairs that I bought for my basement from a lady on craigslist.
• A number of polishing/buffing compounds – White, Red, Brown (Tripoli), and Emery in stick form.

Anyway, so from what I understand I need to correct the “Smile” – maybe I could do the circle technique that Lynn shows on my 220?


After I correct it I should progress through a pyramid on the 4000/8000? From there is it recommended going to a polishing stone like a hard Arkansas. Can I use any of the above resources to get the job done? After that do I strop and test?

Second question, I have gathered from reading that you always use the smooth side of the leather for stropping. The guy at the woodworking store stated that I should treat the rough side with a buffing type compound to polish. My guess is that it is fine for woodworking tools not for a razor. Is that right?

If it is a lost cause for a newby I will reluctantly give up, I just want to learn. I would like to find a teacher but I haven't been able to find one just yet. Hard to find a barber these days.

Thanks for your wisdom.

welcome to srp

there is no reason to give up, but it's best to not be biting off more than you can chew.
learning to hone, strop and shave all at the same time is not impossible, but it's certainly the most inefficient way, especially if the razors you'll be using are challenging ones.
the hones are fine and the strop most likely would do ok as well.

first, correcting the smile on the razor is probably completely unnecessary and will likely cause you more honing problems than it will solve. most vintage razors are designed this way, even if the razor wasn't designed like that the smile corresponds to a corresponding wear on the spine, so it'll be a lot of work to fix correctly (that is even when you know what to do).
second, the hardest part honing a razor is to set the proper bevel, and then to know when to switch hones.

the best approach, in my opinion, is to just follow the regular recommendations and buy a razor that is already honed properly and shave-tested. while learning to use that razor you can work on your other ones, but even then you should get somebody to put a bevel on one of them for reference and so that you can only concentrate on the polishing that bevel.

Welcome to SRP. Gugi is giving you some good advice there. Having a pro honed razor is not only giving you something to shave with but a benchmark to judge your own efforts.

The Nortons are all you really need to hone and to shave with unless you want a bit more icing on the cake with a finer stone or a pasted strop. As Gugi said you may be trying to run before you can walk in trying to restore damaged edges when starting to learn to hone.

At any rate here is a 1961 barber manual excerpt on honing and stropping from the SRP Wiki help files. See page 24. The illustrations show the blade proflie they recommend and how to avoid or correct a frown.

Here is the SRP Wiki honing section with honing tutorials and videos. Take a look at that stuff before you start and you'll have a better shot at it.

A few things to pitch in.
First, is it a smile or a frown, you seem unsure. Smiles are convex, (center wider than toe/heel), frowns are concave.

If it's a frown, yes grind it out with the 220, but get ready for some work. It's not a quick process.
If it's a smile, you'll likely want to keep it. I personally prefer straight edges or very slight smiles, but you'll decide that as you progress and you don't want to remove metal and then wish you could put it back. There's some good info floating around about honing a smiling razor. I can only suggest, go very, very slow until you get the muscle memory for the sweep you are using on that razor set. What you don't want to be doing is pushing the smile deeper and deeper with honing. Ideally it stays at the exact angle it started at.

I would in fact agree that getting it pro-honed is the way to go so you can at least be sure you're starting with a proper bevel when you do need to eventually touch it up. It will also give you something to compare the other razor against while you are working on it.

+1 to the above. Pictures are worth a 1000 words. If you were to post a pic of the Koken, it would be easier to figure out what you have there.

If you have 3 razors, a solid basic set of sharpening stones, some leather, some time and patience; along with a usual shaving method- The only other thing you really need is a good instructional resource. Ah! you have that as well!.

For me the best way to learn this task has been by doing it, not by comparing with what someone else has done. I do not entirely dismiss the benefits of having a sure sharp HM edge on hand. It's just that I have never needed one. Besides all good threads need a counter-point for balance, and you won't hurt my feeling by venturing onto the slippery slope of HMBM.

Any usual method of shaving offers a fine bench mark(BM) for a beginner. Until the straight exceeds, supersedes, and simply blows away the method you currently use; you are not quite there. If at anytime you simply cannot complete your straight shave, fall back on your usual method, resharpen, re-strop and try again. The face knows instinctively when it has been done right or wrong.

It is said having a sharp bench mark will teach you technique. bah hum bug:) All the technique I learned was with a less than ideal edge- that's when you need "technique". Once I was able to make a good sharp edge the only technique is collecting lather and hair in the hollow and wiping it clean when full.

Comparison shaving, in the end, only sets you up for more and more buying. Learning to use what you have leaves you satisfied and beardless.

So until you accidentally cut your nose off, or lips there is no good reason to consider giving up. The tools, the face, a little common sense, brief instruction is more than enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gugi

welcome to srp

there is no reason to give up, but it's best to not be biting off more than you can chew.
learning to hone, strop and shave all at the same time is not impossible, but it's certainly the most inefficient way, especially if the razors you'll be using are challenging ones.
the hones are fine and the strop most likely would do ok as well.

first, correcting the smile on the razor is probably completely unnecessary and will likely cause you more honing problems than it will solve. most vintage razors are designed this way, even if the razor wasn't designed like that the smile corresponds to a corresponding wear on the spine, so it'll be a lot of work to fix correctly (that is even when you know what to do).
second, the hardest part honing a razor is to set the proper bevel, and then to know when to switch hones.

the best approach, in my opinion, is to just follow the regular recommendations and buy a razor that is already honed properly and shave-tested. while learning to use that razor you can work on your other ones, but even then you should get somebody to put a bevel on one of them for reference and so that you can only concentrate on the polishing that bevel.

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Thanks gugi. This brings clarity - all of my vinatge razors have this slight smile. I will look at the classifieds and have at least one done by a pro.