Question about soap vs. cream....

I am looking to get into the game but I am wondering about creams and such. I know to be totally authentic I need to go the all the way with the dish, brush, puck etc. But not to meaning commit sacralige I was wondering if it would be possible/advisable to start out using a CREAM shaving cream like this....

men's Neutrogena Men® Skin Clearing Shave Cream - Neutrogena

I'm worried about start up cost of something that I might abandon ( I hope not/probably not) I figured maybe I could just by a blade and stroup set up and later get the cup and brush etc. Also I presently use this cream with good sucess.

Tell me what you guys think please.

firefighter,

Even with the Neutrogena I would advise that you purchase a cheap shaving brush such as a Tweezerman. You can hold off on the mug. Get a small cereal bowl from the kitchen to squeeze some of the Neutrogena into and use that and the brush to whip up your lather.

Even if you abandon str8 razor shaving you will have a shaving brush that you can use to shave with your multi-blade or DE safety razor.

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Originally Posted by firefighter

I am looking to get into the game but I am wondering about creams and such. I know to be totally authentic I need to go the all the way with the dish, brush, puck etc. But not to meaning commit sacralige I was wondering if it would be possible/advisable to start out using a CREAM shaving cream like this....

men's Neutrogena Men® Skin Clearing Shave Cream - Neutrogena

I'm worried about start up cost of something that I might abandon ( I hope not/probably not) I figured maybe I could just by a blade and stroup set up and later get the cup and brush etc. Also I presently use this cream with good sucess.

Tell me what you guys think please.

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A Brush is great, I just started straight shaving and if I quit I am still using the brush and cream. I got a cheapie brush off amazon if I am looking to step up I'll pick up a nice big brush with a long handle, but right now it works and it was cheap. You can also get a synthetic brush from wal mart for a few dollars just to try it out.

Hi, and welcome to SRP ! I have actually tried that cream and did not have good results, but that's me. The only thing it's good for would be for use in Uber Later...(See WIKI) In other words to help build a better lather. It doesn't stand well on it's own for Str8 razor shaving IMHO. I have about 75 soaps/creams on hand in my rotation. I like trying different ones all the time and comparing.
Soaps vs Creams is a common topic around here, and if you do a search, you'll find lots of data. it's basically personal preference. Creams offer more protection when you shave, Soaps generally give good feedback. Check out Straight razor designs web site. They have great soaps, high end stuff at affordable prices. Other good soaps that are readily available are Tabac, Mitchell's wool fat, Mama Bear's and TGQ. These are the most recommended soaps on the site. For Shave Creams, Castle Forbes, TOBS, Truefitt and Hill, (T&H 1805 is my favorite btw) you can buy a cheap brush at Wal Mart, you can use a small bowl to build lather to start just to test the waters. Once you see if it's for you, then think about investing in some nicer gear...If you need help, just ask....or pm me...

Rich

I have the full Neutrogena line and recommend them 100% they are miles better than any other "conventional" shave product (gillete, old spice, schick, etc).
That said, THAT cream does not lather- it is more like an oil- you smear some on your face and it lubricates. This actually works really well with cartridges but it is not the same. There cream in a can lathers but it is the same diagnosis- better than others, and great for cartridges, but not the same as brush and soap.

My main advice to you is to get a brush bowl and soap/cream (cream in our sense not the conventional sense). You are not cutting costs here- this is probably the most important part! Even with cartridges and DE's this is the best way to go and offer benefits in acne, dry skin, shave bumps etc. Its much better for you.
If cost is an issue- Walmart/CVS/Rite Aid whatever you've got near you sells CHEAP brushes and soaps. You can pick up a kit with brush bowl and soap for $10 that is not great, but serviceable, I shaved with it for 3 months.

I would recommend getting "the worst of the best" rather than the "best of the worst" and going with a cheap brush from one of the vendors- I say this because eventually you will anyways. You can lather in anything be it a coffee mug or a soup bowl or tuppeware. And the soaps- if you are utilitarian they all do the job, if you are a little more homey/pamper yourself you will end up with 10 different soaps anyway- variety is the spice of life. You literally cannot go wrong.

I can't offer much but if you want I have an unopened cheapy brush and soap lying around (the same ones you could by). If you are interested you could contact me too.

I use both soaps and cream, depending on my mood. With creams be aware that there are many "brushless" shaving creams(our definition) out there. The one you mentioned is one of those as already pointed out. If you look at the directions, and it doesnt mention anything about a brush, then it probably wont work that well. That is my rule of thumb. For creams I use the CO bigelo shaving cream that you get at bath and body works. Its pretty much the same as Prorazo.

I too switch depending on mood between soap and cream, mainly because of scent, but also depending on the dryness of my skin. I can see myself switching to the less "heavy" soaps/creams in summer, but right now I have to use products for sensitive/dry skin more than any other time of year.

Also, I finally have enough experience now with many different products to have found my "goto" top of the line in each category, "Tabac" for soap, and "The Art of Shaving" Lavender scent for cream, although the learning continues...

I also use CO Bigelow (Proraso) and make uber-lather with the Tabac sometimes when I'm in the mood for the menthol effect.

As far as things go, for cheap you can get: (considering quality)

Cream:
CO Bigelow (its rebranded proraso if you look on the back)- its cheap and great- VERY great. You wouldn't think it would be so cheap.
Mama Bear
The Gentleman's Quarter
CarrieM's soaps

Soap:
Straight Razor Designs
Colonel Conk
Revivage (by Gold-dachs)

If you just want cheap, Van der Hagen, Williams and this other one I can't think of are VERY cheap and serviceable- but not that good.

I'm starting to the the $75 or so I can save by going from a blade & stroup kit instead of a full "wet" kit might be better used up front and say to hell with it and go for broke. I gotta see right now I'm thinking of going with this kit....

Vintage Blades LLC::Straight Razor Sets::Dovo Straight Razor Sets - Carbon Steel::Dovo Ebony Spike Point Straight Razor Set


I really wish it was not gold plated but I think the Spike point looks fantastic. I can't find a plain blade with a spike point unless I spend a ton of money.

First off IF you get that kit, the brush and strop will serve you well into the future (obviously the razor will too) and it is quite a bit cheaper than buying everything seperate. Though what you might consider is getting a brush and strop seperate and buying a vintage razor from the classifieds. I personally have never bought a production razor and I am getting along just fine.

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Originally Posted by firefighter

I am looking to get into the game but I am wondering about creams and such. I know to be totally authentic I need to go the all the way with the dish, brush, puck etc. But not to meaning commit sacralige I was wondering if it would be possible/advisable to start out using a CREAM shaving cream like this....
........
Tell me what you guys think please.

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Not sacralige .
We all have different beards, water, habits, wives, girlfriends, brushes, blades, skills and expectations.

What ever works, works.

I got my eye on a Vintage Henckle I'm just trying to figure out the best route...... I might consider a brush and stroup with a vintage blade. I'm still trying to figure this all out.

lol I have a story for you:

I started out with a $20 blade, a $20 strop and the $10 set of brush soap and bowl. This worked but wasn't great. Now my go to strop was $75, my brush cost $35, and I have lots of razors. The strop doesn't have to be that expensive, I still have and use the $20 one and I have another for $50.

My point is you can start cheap, but eventually you will upgrade. If you can, buy decent stuff now and it'll save you some in the long run.

There is not much of a problem with the financial outlay but the principle is what is the issue. I just am a little bit leary about spending say $250 and deciding that I can't or won't do this.

If I'm not mistaken, you can get a small puck of Col. Conk soap for less than $5. Just look around. I can't comment on the Nutragena product, but Col. Conk works pretty well. There's a pharmacy near me that sells Proraso for less than $10, so if you look around you should be able to find quality products on the cheap. :gl:

I know the actual soap and cream is cheap it's the brush, cup, stand, etc that adds up...... I think I may just go with the set up I linked to earlier. Unless I can get the Henckles.

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Originally Posted by firefighter

I got my eye on a Vintage Henckle I'm just trying to figure out the best route...... I might consider a brush and stroup with a vintage blade. I'm still trying to figure this all out.

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While you are thinking get a nice soap and a brush.

IMO, in the universe that is shaving "Wet shaving" is what it all revolves around. Said differently: face preparation is key. No matter what you select for a blade, without a good lather and face prep no blade will shave up to its potential.

Building a good lather is not hard. Having said that it does take hints and practice. Not too long ago I took a new eight dollar boar brush and a dollar fifty puck of Williams and spent the afternoon making a lather in 50+ different ways.
Not shaving just making and breaking lather, too much water, too little, light brush strokes, harder strokes, pumping, swirling.... This was after watching mantic59 on youtube.com make lathers. In some he was clearly promoting a product family. After discounting the products I learned a lot. One hint was that it is "easy to add water" was worth taking home.

YouTube - How To Build And Apply Traditional Shaving Lather

I had been flopping about for +40 years on my own and thought I had a clue. .... Well I learned more than a bit from the folks here and other places on the web. I have settled on a combination face plus tin cup lathering strategy. I get lather on my whiskers sooner for soak time (important) and in the cup I can add water drip by drip to get it right. Face, cup, face, cup... I end up with a mug full of lather for follow up passes as a bonus.

Just remember that you want you whiskers to soak up water and lather for
fully two or three min.

BTW: working half way through a puck of Williams just tinkering will break in a cheep boar brush as a bonus.

You don't NEED a stand plus they are cheap- and you don't NEED a bowl- a mug will work fine, and you can lather on your face if you want

I'll give my newbie (Day 28!) two cents for what they're worth. I started with a tube of Proraso, a puck of Conk Bay Rum, and a Tweezerman brush, purchased through Amazon, a Filly strop from RupRazor, and Nivea Extreme from Safeway. I use a small bowl from my kitchen, and dry the razor on a shelf. Razor was shave-ready from the classifieds.

Now, I've loved the Bay Rum smell since I was a kid, so I was rooting for it. I tried both the Conk and Proraso by themselves, and very much preferred the Proraso. I have not bothered to get any glycerin or other additives yet, so I'm not whipping up uberlather. I really liked the lather from the Proraso, but found the Conk dried up too easily on my face. So, score one for the cream.

I then got a sample kit from the local Art of Shaving store (freebie!). This was a revelation in lather production. An almond-sized dollop of cream VERY quickly gave plenty of whipped-cream consistency lather for a shave, and the shave was more comfortable. Best of all, since it was unscented, I could mix in some of the Bay Rum soap for a nice scent. Score another for the cream, but give the soap some credit.

I then got samples of Lavender and Bay Rum soap from SRD. (I now own more scented products than my wife, who thinks I'm nuts.) They had a MUCH more intense smell, and made a much better lather than the Conk, but I still found them a bit too drying. The introduction of glycerin might help, but mixing with a little AOS cream made for a really luxurious shave. Cream wins again, but a really top-notch soap is a fantastic addition.

I have some Castle and Forbes Lime on the way, so we'll see how that compares to what I've done so far. It gets great reviews for lather production. I'm planning to get some of Mama Bears soap at some point as well, but I'm definitely leaning toward favoring creams.

I should also point out that in my limited experience, the smell is really more for your benefit during the shave than anything else. I don't find it to have any lasting effect, which I think is good.

Good luck!

Fred

Hi there!

I'm a complete and total newb, and just did my first straight shave the other night.

But I have to tell you, I've used all kinds of stuff for shaving in the past. I get pretty bad razor bumps, and I found that most of the creams I had tried either didn't help, or actually make it worse because they're so full of chemical crap that my skin doesn't like. I wound up just using plain soap in the end, because I didn't feel like spending the money on stuff I didn't get good results from.

Tried shaving soap and a brush for the first time last and night and HOLY CRAP, it is so much better. Even if I don't wind up sticking to straight shaving (though I fully intend to!) I will stick to using shaving soap and a brush. It feels great, it leaves your skin feeling great, and it just works better. It really does.

It doesn't have to cost you an arm and a leg. I picked up a cheap synthetic brush, which works just fine for now, for $11.50 NZ, which works out to about $8 US. And I even saw a couple for a little bit cheaper.

I have Mama Bear's Chocolate Mousse soap (a lovely gift from the lovely Lilith!), and it works up a lather in no time flat, even with my cheap brush. I just took a look on the site, and you can pick up something from there for as little as $7.50 US, and it will last for absolutely ages.

And I'm sure you could find other soap brands that run cheaper as well. But Mame Bear gets all kinds of praise around here, and now I know why.

So that's, what, $15-$16 on a brush and soap? It's worth it.

You don't need to buy a scuttle, or a stand. Just use a small bowl, and let the brush dry either in the dry cup, or standing on its handle, if the base is flat.

Fred- USE MORE WATER WITH YOUR SOAP! I had the same problems as you but its because us newbs don't use enough water! I think you will find you love the Conk Bay Rum if you lather it right. But also, it is VERY hard to beat proraso, I think it would lather well even if you tried to mess it up.

Firefighter- Fred's set up seems like a pretty good set up to save some dough. I would recommend it.

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Originally Posted by fpatton

I'll give my newbie (Day 28!) two cents for what they're worth. I started with a tube of Proraso, a puck of Conk Bay Rum, and a Tweezerman brush, purchased through Amazon, a Filly strop from RupRazor, and Nivea Extreme from Safeway. I use a small bowl from my kitchen, and dry the razor on a shelf. Razor was shave-ready from the classifieds.

Now, I've loved the Bay Rum smell since I was a kid, so I was rooting for it. I tried both the Conk and Proraso by themselves, and very much preferred the Proraso. I have not bothered to get any glycerin or other additives yet, so I'm not whipping up uberlather. I really liked the lather from the Proraso, but found the Conk dried up too easily on my face. So, score one for the cream.

I then got a sample kit from the local Art of Shaving store (freebie!). This was a revelation in lather production. An almond-sized dollop of cream VERY quickly gave plenty of whipped-cream consistency lather for a shave, and the shave was more comfortable. Best of all, since it was unscented, I could mix in some of the Bay Rum soap for a nice scent. Score another for the cream, but give the soap some credit.

I then got samples of Lavender and Bay Rum soap from SRD. (I now own more scented products than my wife, who thinks I'm nuts.) They had a MUCH more intense smell, and made a much better lather than the Conk, but I still found them a bit too drying. The introduction of glycerin might help, but mixing with a little AOS cream made for a really luxurious shave. Cream wins again, but a really top-notch soap is a fantastic addition.

I have some Castle and Forbes Lime on the way, so we'll see how that compares to what I've done so far. It gets great reviews for lather production. I'm planning to get some of Mama Bears soap at some point as well, but I'm definitely leaning toward favoring creams.

I should also point out that in my limited experience, the smell is really more for your benefit during the shave than anything else. I don't find it to have any lasting effect, which I think is good.

Good luck!

Fred

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firefighter,

Nice choice...In fact, I purchased my very first str8 razor from Vintage Blades. The owner, Jim Ayars, is very personable. Send him an email or call him before you press the "complete order" button and he will be more than happy to discuss your needs and help guide you into the world of str8 razor shaving.

BTW...I own the very same razor in a round point.

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Originally Posted by khaos

Fred- USE MORE WATER WITH YOUR SOAP! I had the same problems as you but its because us newbs don't use enough water! I think you will find you love the Conk Bay Rum if you lather it right.

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Thanks! I'll try that tomorrow morning.

Fred

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Originally Posted by khaos

Fred- USE MORE WATER WITH YOUR SOAP! I had the same problems as you but its because us newbs don't use enough water! I think you will find you love the Conk Bay Rum if you lather it right. But also, it is VERY hard to beat proraso, I think it would lather well even if you tried to mess it up.

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I love col conk bay rum. I actually found that using too much water was my problem at first....

I too was finding the suds drying out on my face, but it was because the mixture was way too thin. I dialed back the water waaayyy back and found the right ratio that gets the soap to explode into nice creamy lather, the consistancy of mayoniase. When it is nice and thick, it does not dry out.

-Chief

Good point. I didn't think of it that way. Too thick or too thin is a problem... so I guess just play around with it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khaos

Fred- USE MORE WATER WITH YOUR SOAP! I had the same problems as you but its because us newbs don't use enough water! I think you will find you love the Conk Bay Rum if you lather it right. But also, it is VERY hard to beat proraso, I think it would lather well even if you tried to mess it up.

Firefighter- Fred's set up seems like a pretty good set up to save some dough. I would recommend it.

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+1 the odds are you need more water.

"khaos" said it well play around with it.

I learned a lot by taking an afternoon and working
my way half way through an inexpensive puck of
Williams one lather at a time.... too much too little
lather clockwise, counterclockwise, pumping,
no pumping. Not shaving just latherin...

That buck fifty was well spent.

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Originally Posted by niftyshaving

+1 the odds are you need more water.

"khaos" said it well play around with it.

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This morning I went with the SRD Bay Rum soap sample, and used more water than before, and it was MUCH better. I will continue to play with it, and will be re-trying the Conk tomorrow.

Love this forum!

Fred