Disappointed With Results

Hello again:

I registered with SRP, and acquired my first straight razor, just about three months ago. One question I had at first was how much better shaving I was going to get, compared with my trusty Merkur Classic double-edge. Some here said the straight would be better, some said it was the experience that drew them in, and the actual shave was merely comparable at best to a good DE shave.

I plunged in anyway. It was rough going at first. It took two weeks for my hands to stop shaking, and more than a month to work out a reasonable technique. It was only recently that I realized I wasn't stropping properly, and finally worked out an overall approach that seemed to give me pretty good shaves from a keen edge. But even so, I felt that my shaves were not as good as I had been accustomed to getting with my old DE.

Today, I sent my razor off to be re-honed because I couldn't get it really keen (won't perform an HHT), in part I think because I hadn't been stropping it right. But that gave me a chance to go back to DE shaving for a bit and compare results.

Today, I think I got the greatest shave I have ever had in my life, with my old Merkur DE and a new Merkur blade, using the same soap I had been using with the straight razor. I think the combination of equipment I was skilled in using and a bit more attention to grain and stroking technique that I had acquired using the straight razor turned out to be the best thing ever. The shave was so slick I wondered if the blade was actually touching my face. It was beyond BBS - it was like my skin was glassy smooth. In fact, it was so smooth I think I terrified my beard - over 14 hours later I still don't even have any 5 o'clock shadow!

Which is great, but also kind of disappointing. I don't get anything like this result with the straight razor. My technique has gotten to be OK, though still not great, and I think I can improve, but the bottom line is that I get shaves with the straight razor that would have been good-but-not-exceptional with the DE, and not as good as my best DE shaves. "BBS" is out of the question, most days. And I seem to get unusually quick 5 o'clock shadow. Getting a great shave after going back to the DE merely points up how mediocre I had been doing with the straight.

Is this going to get better? I've read the Wiki many times, and try to follow its advice, but I still don't have a really reliable technique that leads to good shaves. How long did it take others to reliably produce a comfortable, BBS shave executed with skill? Is there some more advanced program I can follow to fine-tune my technique? Can I expect to really do better than my DE shaves, or is the straight razor just inherently not that much better in terms of closeness?

Thanks for any suggestions.

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Originally Posted by ktkeith

I don't get anything like this result with the straight razor. My technique has gotten to be OK, though still not great, and I think I can improve, but the bottom line is that ....

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You really could stop yourself here because this may be your bottom line. If you have been using DE's for a while and you get great shaves that way, you've probably nailed the technique. OK technique will not result in an excellent shave. As your technique improves so will your shave.

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Originally Posted by ktkeith

Is this going to get better?

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If the experience of others holds true for you, then I'd say yes. It happens all the time, people post their lack of satisfaction only to post later how it finally clicked.

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Originally Posted by ktkeith

How long did it take others to reliably produce a comfortable, BBS shave executed with skill?

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Some people get it quickly, others are still trying

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Originally Posted by ktkeith

Is there some more advanced program I can follow to fine-tune my technique?

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Practice focusing on good technique and precise razor and beard prep is all that will help, other than maybe finding someone to actually show you how they do it.

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Originally Posted by ktkeith

Can I expect to really do better than my DE shaves, or is the straight razor just inherently not that much better in terms of closeness?

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I think you will find that many here would argue that you can achieve a better shave with a straight razor... you could find those who would argue the point, but I for one say that a truly sharp straight combined with a good beard prep routine, and a bit of technique can readily produce that BBS+ result

Cheers

Dave

Three months is still a pretty short time to be straight shaving. Some guys don't really get comfortable with it and achieve the shaves they want for far longer than that. Some guys NEVER get BBS and straight shave for the experience alone or because it's gentler on their face than anything else. I can't tell you for sure whether it's going to get better or not.

Ive been at it just about as long as you and just barely have gotten to where I dont get irritation on my lower neck, atleast the last three shaves. I have spots that get very smooth, close to BBS, but still have other spots that are not so good. It seems to get a little better in one way or another every shave though. I have yet to do an ATG pass, maybe thats all I need for BBS but I will get there one day, I figure whats the rush.

I got a lot of irritation, nicks and subpar shaves for the first 6 months. I did have some flashes of brilliance when the stars aligned and I found myself with exceptional results is certain spots. Eventually you have enough little epiphanies that you'll cover most or all of your face. Stick with it and you'll find the results you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by Ookla

Eventually you have enough little epiphanies that you'll cover most or all of your face. Stick with it and you'll find the results you're looking for.

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+1

Creative skin stretching; different pressure in some areas compared to others; creative strokes; gentle blade-buffing; modification of lathering technique, etc. really made a huge difference once I figured them out and how to adapt them to my face.

I'm still fairly new to straights myself - just a little over 3 months in now myself - and just got my first truly comfortable, close shave yesterday morning. And when I say close, I don't mean DE close... almost, but not quite. Very little irritation, a very decent, respectable shave (better than I used to get with a Gillette Sensor or Mach 5), but not as quite as close as a 2-pass DE shave (I did 2 passes on my neck and 3 on my cheeks).

The thing is, I feel it's a very positive sign, not a disappointment. Reason being I have a LOT more variables to overcome with a straight than with a DE...

With a DE:

• The curve of the razor head and the gap between the bar/combs automatically limits the amount of aggressiveness the blade can contact the skin with
• The width of the blade and 'pressure' of the bar/combs automatically ensure consistent, even, contact across a set length of blade - thereby taking care of 'stretching' and reducing the number of strokes need for you (Note: I believe the reason you're not supposed to stretch your skin when using a DE is because, at the very point of of contact, the bar/comb actually does it for you as it passes over your skin.)
• And the blades are already sharpened eliminating the variable introduce by stropping

With so many additional variables to learn and build muscle-memory for, it only makes sense that mastering a straight would take quite a bit longer than mastering a DE. And, if you have an angular face and/or course beard (both of which I have) it only adds to the challenge.

That's why I consider yesterday's 'decent' shave a positive sign...

After three months of effort, 30-minute shave sessions, and neck irritation (don't get me wrong - despite the far from BBS results so far I've enjoyed every minute of it) I'm beginning to get clear indications that I'm meeting the challenge and entering a new, even more enjoyable phase of straight shaving.

I still use my DE now and then on mornings when I don't have much time to shave. But straights bring more pleasure and fulfillment and it only increases as my skills develop further.

I guess what I'm trying to say, in response to your questions, is..

• No matter how many techniques your might read about, there is no magic bullet. The only true way to get a better, more comfortable, and eventually BBS shaves is practice
• How long it takes others really has no meaning. Some guys get in 1-2 weeks, others 2-3 months, others 1-2 years. There are just too many variables to make it possible to compare the time it took others to the time that's right and necessary for you. You are unique - the techniques and learning time that are necessary and right for you are for you and you alone
• And the only way to find out if straight can deliver a better shave for you... your type of beard... the contours of your face... the sensitivity of your skin is to give yourself time to find out

If you think there's not much more room for improvement then maybe it's not for you. If you think that -- with more time and practice -- you do have room for a fair bit more improvement then give yourself that time to find out.

The most important thing though is to enjoy the journey. If your goal is purely to get a close or BBS shave and it doesn't matter to you how you get there - e.g. if you don't enjoy the experience of learning with and using a straight - then a straight is only holding you back from your goal of a BBS shave and the DE is your true calling...

If your ultimate goal is to enjoy the shave then use which ever razor type/shave method gives you the most pleasure...

And, if your goal is enjoy the shave AND get as close to BBS as possible then you'll have to decide for yourself which razor type is most likely to meet both those needs for you and stick with it.

There's no shame in shaving with a DE...

There's no shame in shaving with a straight...

There is only shame in not doing what brings YOU the most joy and fulfillment because of something immensely varying as and widely available as other people's opinions.

It certainly does get better, in time... You've gotten good advise. I'd just like to encourage you to remain patient and enjoy the journey... It's worth the effort, my friend :gl:

Hello, KtKeith,

These learned gentlemen have imparted good advice, with which I concur.

I use a straight razor, although I switch to double blade when time is extremely short. They both give me good shaves. What also comes with the straight razor is craft. It will take time to master the craft.

Have patience, and good luck.

Regards,

Obie

It took me about 4-5 years. Honing and stropping correctly on my own were the big challenges though. The fundamental difference between the DE and the straight, I've always thought, was me.

One thing to consider is this "result" thing. You might get good "results" from a riding lawn mower, but think of the irritation.

If the straight razor is not honed as well as the DE, and not stropped accordingly, what is the point of comparing the two? Somebody, somewhere, probably in some really hot factory, might have watched a polishing rouge applied to a long belt fed leather strip moving at 60 mph and caressing that DE blade for 5 minutes. Now your telling me that the DE blade has given you one, and I would emphasize, one, good shave. Mostly from the loving attention of some guy you don't know running a machine that you likely couldn't afford even if you wanted it.

So, when the straight comes back, you should give it one more try, but this time with more emphasis on testing the edge instead of shaving with it. Don't try and evaluate the straight razor until it has a fair shake on equal footing.

One of the challenges with a straight razor is that if you are going to compare the shaves with another system you've got to take responsibility for producing the edge on there that you expect. You wouldn't, I assume, shave with a piece of glass and make a comparison either. Yet, strangly enough, the piece of cut glass is probably pretty darn sharp and smooth.

When I get a little stuck I apply graphite to my strop and polish it up for, you guessed it, about 5 minutes. Then it shaves really great for a month or so, then I'm back to where I started. Once, there, I chill out a little and realize that the blade is plenty sharp and the results are still as good as a DE. The only real difference is that I was expecting better. Then I'm back to taking my time and stretching the skin, etc. I stop getting nicks as well. That is a nice byproduct of letting the blade smooth out a bit. My face gets torn up by a DE. I get nicks galore. Have you ever considered a comparison against a straight from that perspective?

You might only find that in the hands of an expert the straight razor only shaves as well as your DE. Thus, you either have some practice to work on, or some acceptance that you want to decide once and for all to just stick with your DE. Neither option is good or bad. I love shaving with a DE, until I run out of blades.

That is my thought.

Why have you chosen to use the straight?

For me, part of the pleasure of the straight razor shave is the learning.

Using a disposable is relatively mindless and quick. The DE is a step up, but still doesn't require the same level as the straight.

If I was sensible and just looking for a good shave, maybe I'd have stopped with the DE. But I'm not - and I like the challenge and the learning.

Using the straight requires constant attention and constant learning.
(I like that).

Hey - somehow I got BBS in that spot... now how did I do that!!??

I will practice for a while, but try and change one thing - and notice what difference it makes. Sometimes better, sometimes not.

And if I get a really good shave... well, that's a bonus!:)

Anyway, just a few thoughts - hope they help.

All the best with your journey - wherever it takes you!
Michael.

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Originally Posted by FTG

For me, part of the pleasure of the straight razor shave is the learning.

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Same here. I am not even worried about a BBS. I don't care if I don't get one for a year or more. I am just jazzed that I am shaving with a straight! Hell, if I leave a bit around the chin and someone notices it, it gives me a reason to talk about learning to shave with a real razor.

As, Allen said, three months isn't that long. If you can be bothered, stick at it and keep learning. It will get better. It took me six months before I felt I was stropping properly and then a year after that, I experienced another 'Road to damascus' moment when my edges came off the strop even better. Not saying that the stropping is the problem, just trying to point out the necessity of patience.

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Originally Posted by ktkeith

Is this going to get better? I've read the Wiki many times, and try to follow its advice, but I still don't have a really reliable technique that leads to good shaves. How long did it take others to reliably produce a comfortable, BBS shave executed with skill? Is there some more advanced program I can follow to fine-tune my technique? Can I expect to really do better than my DE shaves, or is the straight razor just inherently not that much better in terms of closeness?

Thanks for any suggestions.

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Hi,
I can get BBS, but I need to do a 3 pass shave (WTG/XTG/ATG).

How many passes are you doing?

-Chief

I never really did well with DE. Yes, I got ok results with my fatboy, but my Merkur slant would butcher my face without fail (Or I would butcher my face with the Merkur, whatever).

My first str8t shave was better then any DE shave I ever did. Maybe I never stuck with the DE shaving to learn good technique. Whatever.

My first year with the straight razor was disappointing, but I persisted. There is so much to learn about; not only shaving, but stropping and eventually honing. After the first year, the majority of shaves were better and more comfortable than any I used to get with the DE. I have never looked back since. It is an art I love to practice, too!

Good advice from all, and a useful perspective. Thanks very much for your input.

I'll give it more time and continue to work on technique. It's helpful to know that my experience isn't unusual.

Thanks again!

practice, practice, practice, do not give up. it will take time and you will enjoy it better than any type of shaving(at least most do)

good luckAttachment 36630

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

practice, practice, practice, do not give up. it will take time and you will enjoy it better than any type of shaving(at least most do)

good luckAttachment 36630

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+1
I have been straight shaving for about 2 years now. I usually shave daily with a straight and have found that I still have certain things pop up that gives me some problems. My biggest one was learning to take my time and not hurry.

I find this to be more of a learning journey rather than get it done and off I go. Between learning how to hone, strop and shave properly I figure I'll be at this for quite some years and I might never fully master this art.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Hammer

+1
I have been straight shaving for about 2 years now. I usually shave daily with a straight and have found that I still have certain things pop up that gives me some problems. My biggest one was learning to take my time and not hurry.

I find this to be more of a learning journey rather than get it done and off I go. Between learning how to hone, strop and shave properly I figure I'll be at this for quite some years and I might never fully master this art.

Bruce

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+1 on your comments
i think most will soon find out that this is a relaxing shave(once they get the hang of it) i think of it as a gentlemen's shave. something to be enjoyed and savored. i make my own soaps and love to have different scents for different days. i would also tell anyone to try and make their own soaps as it is fairly easy and not that expensive. just another side of the shaving experience. it also goes without saying that most will want to learn how to hone their own straights. another enjoyable experience.
i am 50 now and just wish i had found this out 30 years ago.
any way that i can be of help, just pm me and ask away.