Thoughts on make-shift strops.

Howdy everyone. I know I post like a madwoman, but bare with me.

Like a lot of our newer members here, I'm young and broke. And yet, being young, I want to have a life despite being broke. So I looked into this whole straight razor thingie and decided, yes, I want to do this!

I read lots and lots, and looked into what's good, what's good enough, and what's crap. I wanted as good as can be had for cheap, which usually means good enough, without winding up with crap.

So, I read lots of threads about make-shift strops. A lot of the more experienced members recommended against it, but I never saw a clearly articulated reason as to why. They would instead recommend that a cash-strapped newbie buy a piece of leather.

"But isn't that the same damn thing as a belt?", I thought. I smirked and assumed that it was tied up in SRP's constant drive to get that extra 1% out of their shave.

Well, I was wrong.

So, to any newbie wanting to used a belt, or your jeans, or whatever, as a strop, here's my story. Here is a clearly articulated reason to think about it.

First, I'd like to say that lots of people can and do have success with such make-shift strops. This is just one tale of one person. But, maybe it's something worth considering.

I bought a belt from the Salvation Army. Two inches wide, perfectly smooth, no obvious imperfections. Looked like it had hardly been worn. Genuine leather and everything. Perfect.

When I first tested out my razor the moment I opened it (shave-ready from LilithParker the beautiful!), it shaved hair off my arm. Tiny bit of pull, but nothing a good stropping won't clean up, right?

I stropped my razor, and tried to have a shave. And failed miserably. So miserably that I would have almost been better off not shaving at all.

Tried to shave my arm again. Nothing.

The immediate concern was my stropping technique. Obviously I'm new, and while I did practice before hand, that was my first time stropping a real razor. I assumed the fault rested entirely with me.

And to be sure, my stropping is not that great. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't all that effective.

But when I sent it off to be honed (by the spendiforous Onimaru!), assuming I'd rolled the edge, I got quite a shock when I got an email with micro pictures of my blade.

I had not rolled the edge.

I had apparently ground off the edge like a maniac with a 400 grit stone.

I was completely confused. How did this happen? I was so careful with keeping my edge from hard surfaces. I was so good about storing it properly. The only thing it touched, besides my skin, was a leather belt. And while my stropping may have been a little more insistent than necessary, there is no way I was pushing hard enough to do *that.* Onimaru wondered if perhaps it was something in the leather.

And then, it was pointed out to me, that after a certain point, your fingers can no longer feel differences in consistency. A 4k stone feels almost exactly the same as a 16k stone, one member told me.

It is entirely possible that something has been embedded in, or roughened up, my belt. And my fingers may not feel it, but my razor will show it.

I have no idea where that belt has been. I have no idea if it was thrown in a box with a bunch of saw dust. I have no idea if it had tiny scrapes from being banged around. I have no idea.

I spent $5 on that belt.

I could have just as easily spent that $5 on a nice piece of leather which would have been sufficient. I would know that it had been carefully shipped. I would know it had little contact with anything, apart from other bits of leather.

I would know a lot more about what I was using, and thus it would have a better chance of being successful.

People don't really think about the micro surface of their belts. That's not what they're for.

But people do think about the micro surface of their strops, and even of plain leather. They are more likely to treat it accordingly, and it is more likely not to chew your blade apart.

So, the belt, being that it is far too big for me to use it for its intended purpose, is going back to the Salvation Army. Lesson learned.

Love,
Cassie

Yep! The stropping makes all the difference!

I was suprised by the closeness in feel of those two stones, I must admit. I thought it would be like a sandpaper versus glass, but its much closer than that. Dont get me wrong, you can tell them apart, but theres not a huge difference in it..!

Or maybe its just that my fingertips have been ruined with all that guitar playing..! Hehe! :D :hmmm:

Great post, thanks for sharing! :tu

ShavedZombie - Actually, my full name is Cassiopaea. :)

Onimaru was ever so kind as to offer me a strop of his, one he thinks will suit my wandering ways. I cannot thank him enough for all of his help and generosity. Ditto to Ms. Lilith Parker. Sorry I couldn't give the Wapi a better entrance!

Thanks guys, I hope someone finds this helpful. To be cheap is one thing, but to be cheap and wise is another! :D

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Originally Posted by MistressNomad

ShavedZombie - Actually, my full name is Cassiopaea. :)

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Lol I read that and I was like, what if her name is Cassiopaea or Cassidy? Anways...

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Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Onimaru was ever so kind as to offer me a strop of his, one he thinks will suit my wandering ways. I cannot thank him enough for all of his help and generosity. Ditto to Ms. Lilith Parker. Sorry I couldn't give the Wapi a better entrance!

Thanks guys, I hope someone finds this helpful. To be cheap is one thing, but to be cheap and wise is another! :D

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The ruprazor filly would be my best recommendation for you, but I recall you posted somewhere that shipping is restrictive. AFAIK it is the cheapest strop on the market, so I would then probably look to buying some nice raw leather.

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Originally Posted by MistressNomad

ShavedZombie - Actually, my full name is Cassiopaea. :)

Onimaru was ever so kind as to offer me a strop of his, one he thinks will suit my wandering ways. I cannot thank him enough for all of his help and generosity. Ditto to Ms. Lilith Parker. Sorry I couldn't give the Wapi a better entrance!

Thanks guys, I hope someone finds this helpful. To be cheap is one thing, but to be cheap and wise is another! :D

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You're kidding... right?

Coolest. Name. Ever.

A round of applause for Onimaru, then! Wish I could have helped, too :/ No spare strops :(...I'm halffway tempted to try my hand at making amateur strops, and then giving working prototypes to beginners in need... May be future in this plan...

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Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

Also, and I'm sure this has been suggested before, the RupRazor Filly is a great starter strop, it's only 20 dollars, has a Crox touchup side (don't use this every time :P just for touch ups) and a latigo side for daily stropping. I've heard a lot of good things about the Filly.

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i'm a beginner and I got ken rup's filly strop and I recommend it. I do have a question about the rough side with the green paste. How often should i use that side, and is it equvalent to an 8k, 12k stone? Or am I thinking about all this wrong?

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Originally Posted by Toplin

i'm a beginner and I got ken rup's filly strop and I recommend it. I do have a question about the rough side with the green paste. How often should i use that side, and is it equvalent to an 8k, 12k stone? Or am I thinking about all this wrong?

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The green side is higher grit than 12k. Well.. Not higher grit, but smaller particle...

To save you the long version, the essentials are that there is no finite answer to your question, it's different for every razor.. When the razor starts to tug, or give rough shaves, give it 10 laps on the Green, then give it a good stropping on Latigo, if that fixes it, yay, if it doesn't, 10 more laps, repeat as necessary... When the Green doesn't do the job, you need a finishing/barber hone.

That answer your question?

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Originally Posted by ShavedZombie

The green side is higher grit than 12k. Well.. Not higher grit, but smaller particle...

To save you the long version, the essentials are that there is no finite answer to your question, it's different for every razor.. When the razor starts to tug, or give rough shaves, give it 10 laps on the Green, then give it a good stropping on Latigo, if that fixes it, yay, if it doesn't, 10 more laps, repeat as necessary... When the Green doesn't do the job, you need a finishing/barber hone.

That answer your question?

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yes, thank you

Hey Toplin, lots of people love their Filly's!

Unfortunately due to where I live, just the cost of getting it here and the exchange rate would more than double price. This was kind of my big problem with a lot of stuff having to do with SR shaving. I know of no one in the country who hones razors. I had to send it internationally just to have it honed by someone I felt confident in trusting. I know of no manufacturer on this side of the planet who makes nice strops. After shipping, even a cheap strop becomes mid-range.

This was, essentially, the problem that caused me to try out a belt for stropping.

So, if a newbie finds themselves in similar need, it seems the very *best* investment, if they live in the more accessible places in the world, would be one of the starter strops that the wonderful people in the SR community make, such as the Filly.

Otherwise, if in my situation, or so broke that that extra 20 bucks seems like it would hurt, and one would like to go DIY, start with raw leather. You know what's gone in to it and how it's been treated. Knowledge is power.

And besides, making stuff is fun!

ShavedZombie - Thanks. :) I didn't like it as a kid being teased on the playground, but I gotta say, I'm lovin' it now.

Yes, we should all send Oni candy.

You did a great job explaining this! I used a belt for about two months when I first started, not believing a real strop would make much difference... but oh how it does! It's often hard to convince a beginner, though, because it seems perfectly acceptable to save some money and use a belt or whatnot...

...I will now direct these poor unfortunate souls to your thread! What a great contribution to SRP!

BKrachmer - Thanks!

I think seeing those pics of my blade really made it sink in to me.

We are accustomed to things in which our sense of touch is good enough. It's hard to imagine scrapes so small you can't even see them taking a blade from shave-ready to butterknife-dull in 30 strokes.

But when I actually witnessed my blade go through that progression, it's kind of hard to deny. And when I saw micro images of my blade with an edge like a saw, well, the evidence keeps piling up.

For me, that was the hurdle. I didn't think leather that felt so smooth could actually be so abrasive to a razor's edge. I'm sure my heavy-handed stropping didn't help a whole lot, but even as my stropping improved as I practised before sending it to be honed, the blade just seemed to get duller and duller. They say stropping isn't rocket science, but in that moment, I just couldn't figure out what the hell I was doing wrong! Maybe I should try it on my head?

It is true that a poor workman always blames his tools, but a naive workman can sometimes wind up with his tools to blame. Hopefully someone else can avoid the heartbreak of having to send away their razor so quickly after getting it. :boohoo:

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Originally Posted by MistressNomad

Unfortunately due to where I live, just the cost of getting it here and the exchange rate would more than double price.

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No friends or relatives travelling to Europe or the US?

Not in NZ who would be making a round trip, no. But lots of folks in the US and Europe, seeing as I'm from the US and spent quite a while in Europe.

But to be honest, most of them have been hit really hard by the recession and don't seem to be recovering very quickly. Many of my friends are quirky folks who didn't have much of a nest egg to rely on. Several of them are actually moving to what they hope will be a more prosperous place. I'd feel pretty rotten even asking them to pay the shipping, which would be almost as much as the strop - and if I pay it, it's the same problem all over.

I don't really like to ask people for things, especially since times are so tough. I feel awkward about even accepting offered generosity. Fortunately I seem to be doing ok with the karmatic universe - or perhaps that's my cue to give more myself - and I run in to a lot of generosity. Lucky me. :)

Shipping anywhere to, or from, NZ, is damn expensive, even for something relatively small. It's frustrating, me being such a center-of-it-all type of person. I like big cities, and being connected to everything. Being out here isn't very conducive to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toplin

i'm a beginner and I got ken rup's filly strop and I recommend it. I do have a question about the rough side with the green paste. How often should i use that side, and is it equvalent to an 8k, 12k stone? Or am I thinking about all this wrong?

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If you're wondering about grit and micron sizes, here is a useful little file that was floating around a while back.

It is a useful comparison of grit size to micron size and shows where a lot of the stones sit in comparison to each other. Do bear in mind that the grit sizes given for the natural stones are approximate.

To answer your specific question, chromium oxide is about the same grit as a 30k Shapton stone. So its a very fine final polish, or a very light touch up. ShavedZombie gave great advice on how to use it.

Good luck!

I bought several new belts from our local gigantic flea market. They all said genuine leather on the inside. I got them for five dollars each. I got one wet and it disentigrated. When I inspected it the thing was made out of ground up leather and something else pressed into a belt blank. The something else is probably what tore up your razor. The other two belts started rolling on the edges and didn't last long. It may be genuine leather but it is not solid leather. For what it is worth. I am sorry that had to happen to you. Any one of us could have done the same thing.

Mackie - Interesting you say that. I won't be soaking the belt, as I plan to make it available again to other broke people, ha ha. But really, I wouldn't be surprised. I just don't know!

I could be the manufacturing, how it was shipped, how it was worn, how it was stored... who the hell knows.

But I didn't know they could pulp and reconstitute leather like bad orange juice.

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Originally Posted by MistressNomad

But I didn't know they could pulp and reconstitute leather like bad orange juice.

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That's how Ford and GM make cars. Duh. Gosh how could you not know about reconstituted pulp manufacture?

I'm glad you posted this. I've been wondering for a while about this. Thanks for the post. I'll stop wondering now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MistressNomad

ShavedZombie - Actually, my full name is Cassiopaea. :)

Onimaru was ever so kind as to offer me a strop of his, one he thinks will suit my wandering ways. I cannot thank him enough for all of his help and generosity. Ditto to Ms. Lilith Parker. Sorry I couldn't give the Wapi a better entrance!

Thanks guys, I hope someone finds this helpful. To be cheap is one thing, but to be cheap and wise is another! :D

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What a beautiful name. What are its origins?

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Originally Posted by Alembic

What a beautiful name. What are its origins?

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I recall another thread about Pre-shave treatment, the topic got to Olive oil, Cassiopeia, correct me if I'm wrong, but you said you were Mediterranean?

Mostly, yes. Half Italian, 1/4 Greek (the rest is various sorts of British).

It's derived from Cassiopeia, the constellation/mythical queen, but my father wanted me to be *totally* unique, ha ha. So he changed the spelling and pronunciation a bit.

OH, well, you're a brit then, explains everything. Intellectuals, the lot of them. ;)

As happens, I'm a usetabe once was leatherworker with odd leftovers, one being a side of 12-14 oz saddle leather, a bit heavy for belts. One cut for a strop I was thinking of for myself, though it would take beveling and conditioning. That part isn't tedious and I've got the requirements.

Wouldn't be difficult to cut a second one, and its true cost is probably less than the shipping, say 10-12$ or thereabouts, a nominal sum.

If you have any idea you'ld want such a thing, I would be forced to dig out my strapcutter and actually do it, rather than continue procrastinating. It's an extra heavy hand picked side, or I wouldn't have bought it, and I think strops would be a fine use for it.

Not that I ever made one, but leather quality I do know something about, and treating leather. Neatsfoot oil and glycerin soap and lanolin and beeswax don't hurt leather.

I'd best find my strapcutter, I've likely talked myself into it..

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Originally Posted by mitchshrader

OH, well, you're a brit then, explains everything. Intellectuals, the lot of them. ;)

As happens, I'm a usetabe once was leatherworker with odd leftovers, one being a side of 12-14 oz saddle leather, a bit heavy for belts. One cut for a strop I was thinking of for myself, though it would take beveling and conditioning. That part isn't tedious and I've got the requirements.

Wouldn't be difficult to cut a second one, and its true cost is probably less than the shipping, say 10-12$ or thereabouts, a nominal sum.

If you have any idea you'ld want such a thing, I would be forced to dig out my strapcutter and actually do it, rather than continue procrastinating. It's an extra heavy hand picked side, or I wouldn't have bought it, and I think strops would be a fine use for it.

Not that I ever made one, but leather quality I do know something about, and treating leather. Neatsfoot oil and glycerin soap and lanolin and beeswax don't hurt leather.

I'd best find my strapcutter, I've likely talked myself into it..

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A great way to treat a strop before using it is just to get a good glycerin lather made, and lather/rub that on top of the strop... It actually makes for fantastic conditioning

mitchshrader - I am, by culture, an American as it happens. :)

Fortunately I've sorted out the strop thing, but there's always a market for simple newbie strops! It seems like there's a few new people here every day. I had no idea this many people were getting into straight shaving.