Nasty Shave

I just had a really bad shave and I'd love some feedback.

Yesterday my Classic Shaving brand Sandalwood soap arrived. This morning I did my new routine:

hot water and brush in the mug (full to the brim),
lots of hot water on my face, rubbed in really well,
100 strokes on my 3" red Latigo practice strop (I'm going to upgrade to a Tony Miller or SRD Latigo/fabric when I can afford it),
more hot water on my face,
dump the mug,
squeeze the brush,
start whipping up lather,
when it forms peaks, I put it on my face with light circular motions,
one pass WTG on my cheeks/sideburns, upper lip, and neck, (I wear a "chin curtain" beard and the hair on my neck below the beard grows upward, toward my chin, so WTG is actually south to north)

Almost immediately I started to feel the burn. Not like a rough shave burn, it wasn't any rougher than before. More like a bad sun burn; really dry, sharp, prickly, anywhere the lather was. I rinsed with lots of ice cold water and after about ten minutes, I was starting to feel better. I tried an experiment and re-lathered. The pain came back almost immediately. More ice-cold water and lotion helped.

Three questions:

1.) How is my routine?

2.) The Classic Soap is supposed to be good. Could it be the sandalwood oil that irritates?

3.) This is the second soap I've tried, the first was a gift from some gift shop. I can't seem to get good lather no matter how much or little water I use. It always ends up like the foam on top of a pint of beer. Just like the beer, it looks thick, but quickly disappears. When I use the CT&E cream, it looks like whipped cream or yogurt: shinny and think, lasts all the way to the end of the shave. Is this the best I can get from soap? does the quality of my brush matter? Any other tips on creamy lather?

Thanks,

-- Aubrey

If it were me, I would alter the direction of the shave. The hair on my neck grows sideways, but I use a standard shaving method and it turns out better than trying to figure out the direction of growth. I always start with a first pass where everything gets treated with a north to south regardless how it grows. The second pass is a XTG starting from the midline and going toward the ear regardless of direction of growth. The third pass is always south to north. I've tried some of that fancier stuff where you try to figure out the direction of hair growth and then change your workflow based off that, but the shave have always been inferior in comparison. Try getting back to the basics.

As for the soap, I've tried CS soaps and find them entirely mediocre. They're certainly better than Williams and Conk IMHO, but vastly inferior to Mama Bear's which costs the same amount of dough.

Last item of concern is how much pressure you're using. I came directly from using a M3 razor and it took me quite a while to get the muscle memory down to use little pressure...I had been using a ton of pressure on those M3 razor for decades and it's a tough habit to break.

do you use any pressure while you shave? is your razor sharp enough?
if not then be patient. you just bought razor from me. i will ship it to day on Monday you will get it. just wait a little.

Sorry to hear about your experience. Several things could be happening:

1) You could be allergic to one or more ingredients in the soap, sandalwood oil is notorious for allergies. I would suggest to stop using this soap and consult with your dermatologist.

2) Your lather was too dry and the chemicals were applied at a higher concentration than intended. If this is the case, hydrate the lather more.

3) You used too much pressure while shaving. Not sure this is the culprit but often applying too much pressure can give you that burning sensation.

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Your routine seems reasonable.

For lathering tips, you may want to review the wiki, it contains lots of information on the subject. Perhaps this video would help:

YouTube - How To Build And Apply Traditional Shaving Lather

One thing that you may have not considered in the hardness of the water, if the water is hard, forming good quality lather is extremely difficult. What you describe may be a good indication of this. Try using distilled water and see if there is a difference. You mentioned that your Crabtree and Evelyn cream gives you great lather, so perhaps there is no problem with the water after all. If you do not see a difference with the distilled water, you can explore other variables. The brush, particularly if it is not broken in, could have an effect. However, no matter how cheap your brush is, you should be able to get good lather. This is not to say that a great brush would not do a better job or make the job easier on you. If you need more help, please let me know.

Al raz.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by agranner

This morning I did my new routine

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What did you change in your routine?

Your description sounds like irritation from the soap. I don't know if Crabtree and Evelyn (that's what you meant by CT&E, right?) uses essential oils, but the Classic Shaving soap most likely uses less expensive fragrance oils, and this is usually more irritating.

Try it again with your usual routine, and if you get the same result, it is likely the soap.

Sandalwood EO is expensive stuff. If you really like the sandalwood scent in a soap, I would try Charles' at QED.

I second Ray with QED, I have the Lime and its outstanding, but I would say even better then QED is the AOS Sandalwood.

I honestly think your problem is right here

Quote:

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100 strokes

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I have to ask why??

I mean a 100 seems excessive for a properly sharpened razor, I used 25 on webbing, then maybe 35 on leather, and that's way more then enough, perhaps in your numerous strokes your making errors ( rolling the edge)



David

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alraz

For lathering tips, you may want to review the wiki, it contains lots of information on the subject. Perhaps this video would help:

YouTube - How To Build And Apply Traditional Shaving Lather

Al raz.

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Guys, thanks for sharing your wisdom. I really appreciate the time everyone takes to help us new guys. There's a lot to know about SR shaving, and there's just a lot of information to wade through. I appreciate the video, Al Raz. My lather has been weak, and this gives me a good benchmark for what it should look like and how to get it there.

Cheers,

Larry

My dear Aubrey:

I would put most of the blame in this on the soap. From what I read, you seem to be going about making lather properly. Also, I assume you keep the razor sharp and the pressure light.

I have not used that particular Classic Shaving Soap. I have used other brands of soaps and creams that torched my face. Musgo Real shave cream flamed my face, so did Gold Dachs shave soap. I threw both away.

Yes, your soap could be the problem.

Regards,
Obie

Larry,

Great advice here.. I'm sure you'll figure it out.. If you were having good shaves and then something changed.. figure out what changed first and go from there.. I agree with all.. that 100 strokes may be more than necessary IE in the begining when you are not as consistent with your strokes as you will be later...

I used to do 100 strokes and more with a practice razor over and over... but.. with my shaver I only go on the leather 15 to 30.. and somedays... I have to go slower then others... just somedays I'm not as smooth and have to be more careful.. a few bad strokes on the strop and you need to touch up your blade on a hone or pasted strop. maybe the linen side of the strop if it's not too bad...when I've done it and I have... I had no luck trying to fix this with the linen side of the strop.. I had to go to a pasted balsa strop..

If it's the lather... wait a few days for your face to heal before trying to quickly or you are runing your razor over an already irritated face... I personally love the creams instead of soap..I think I get more cushion and a more comfortable shave.. just my persoal experience ... I like the nastalgia of the soaps and the price... but I get more comfort with the creams...and if I want a real comfortable shave I do it after my shower.. just can't beat that beard prep in the shower.. I also use a preshave oil.. there are several.. an easy one to get is at the Body Shop 10.00.. they also have a razor burn prep that I use if my face gets irritated and it seems to work very well... Their shave cream 10.00 makes lots of lather..

If it were me.. I'd wait a couple days.. get preshave oil and try a cream. .. touchup my razor on a pasted strop ... shower before my shave and try again with no pressure... if you feel like you have to add pressure to get the razor to shave.... the razor is not sharp!! when it's sharp .. you feel like you better not add pressure or you'll get cut...

Listen to everyone's advice... separate what fits from what doesn't and do what you think is best...

good luck... you'll figure it out!!

Maq

I 'd second (or third or whatever) the soap. Take it out and at the least you'll know it's something else. I love the scent of sandal wood but tend to avoid soaps based solely on it because they can burn me horribly, just as you describe.

There is a known history of Classic Soap burning. I've tried the original vanilla and sandlewood as well as the one of the premiums (I don't remember the scent) The premium unscented was fine. All the others burnt and I couldn't use them and that's the only brand of soap I've ever had problems with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

There is a known history of Classic Soap burning. I've tried the original vanilla and sandlewood as well as the one of the premiums (I don't remember the scent) The premium unscented was fine. All the others burnt and I couldn't use them and that's the only brand of soap I've ever had problems with.

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Yep. I've only ever had trouble with burning from CS soaps... nice smells, decent lather... but it took a lot more soap to make the lather, and it BURNED.

If you like the sandalwood, but are having problems with that particular soap, I can highly recommend CarrieM's sandalwood. I ordered some a few weeks ago, and have been very pleased. I find most sandalwoods overpowering, but she made it with a lighter touch on the scent. No irritation, a great lather, and a really nice, mild aroma.

Fred

I would throw that product out instantly. The was some of the worst soap I have ever tried. It just wasn't a good product and sucked in many ways.

it mad my face red for 20 minutes and then it would turn back normal. It did not burn, but was ugly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimmyfingers

I would throw that product out instantly.

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Let's not be rash... keep the plastic tub for your new, non-CS refill puck. :)

Thanks for all the great advice. I'm throwing the CS soap away.

I thought I would like the sandalwood: my first wet shave was with CT&E sandalwood cream which I liked. The CS stuff smelled very strange: oily, tangy, something else that did not sit well with me; actually made me a little nauseous.

Anyway, I've ordered two soaps from Mama Bear's: "Aged Spice" which cracks me up. I hope it actually smells like old spice which I like a lot because it's kind of sweet.

The other is Indian Tobacco Flower. As a pipe smoker, pipe tobacco is one of my favorite smells, but I also had flowering tobacco growing in the garden when I was growing up. I can't remember what it smelled like, but I remember I liked it.

Until that comes, I'll use the peppermint soap from before. I like the smell and it doesn't irritate my face, but the lather is weak and I have to re-apply it often during the shave.

I had a much better shave today; really getting the idea of NO PRESSURE. I thought I understood this before, but every time I try using less and it gets better and better. I did my first XTG pass and it was great: no tugging and the stubble stayed away much longer. Still not BBS and the stubble still came back after about 5 hours, but much better thanks to all the great advice on this site.

Looking forward to getting a newly honed razor from hi_bud tomorrow. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Very excited,

-- Aubrey

I had a similar problem with Tabac which has a very strong scent. I ordered Mitchell's Wool Fat Soap and received it yesterday. Big difference. Scents are purely cosmetic and have no practical purpose other than they smell good. There are other soaps that are unscented and hypoallergenic. Art of Shaving makes one, although it's very expensive.

Another good Sandalwood soap is Trumpers. It was the first soap I ever got and its a really good one. Great lather, good cushion and a smooth glide. I'd definately recommend it...!

Good luck and keep us posted!

I just got a new (to me) razor honed by hi_bud. I didn't realize what sharp was, but this makes a great difference. Now that I've learned not to use any pressure, this is what the shave should have been.

The razor makes a "rasping" noise, but it doesn't pull. In fact, I can barely feel it at all. I'm a little scared of it though: it's a spike point, very hollow, with an impossibly slim bevel. I know I can trust it though, so I will master it.

After this shave, I had a thought: I generally try to use just part of the blade because I think if I use the whole thing I'll lose track of a corner and cut myself. But actually, I want as much blade down as I can so the load is spread out. The more blade I use, the lighter the pressure will be and the closer the shave.

Now I see why it takes so long to learn this.

Still using the peppermint soap. I will update when Mama Bear's arrives.

-- Aubrey

I have found the Classic soaps to be worthless. A few other sources for you to check are TGQ (I use Colleen's soaps exclusively) and Mama Bear (her's are also great). You can't go wrong with either, and both have large followings here at SPR. :gl: