Half/Full Hollow flexing, average beard density, stubborn stubble

I have a medium/average dense beard, with large stubborn stubble around the chin. Because of this tree trunk stubble around the chin, I'm leaning towards the half hollow to start. The last thing I want is for my razor to skip over the stubble, or irritate the hair follicle. All other areas of my face are easy to shave, and it is just the chin area that my non-straight razors struggle.

I read the half hollow is in the middle of the spectrum, and a good place to start for a beginner. But, the logic may have a flaw. Just because it's the middle of the spectrum, doesn't necessary mean it is the best place to start.

I'm choosing the 5/8 over the 6/8 because I have a relatively medium sized face with lots of angles. I'm quite happy with the size of a DE razor, so figure I'd like the 5/8 size.

However, I'm having difficulty finding a 5/8 half hollow razor. I was surprised I did not see one at SRD (Dovo or Boker). Other places list the 5/8 half hollow out of stock. The 5/8 full hollow seems to be popular and very available. The half hollow becomes fully available at 6/8.

Since the 5/8 half hollow is less available, that raises the caution flag. Perhaps it is not popular for a reason?

I have a tough time imagining flexing between full vs. half. I figure if the blade is sharp, it should be cutting the hair, not flexing. Perhaps the sharper the blade, the less flexing? Therefore a full hollow should not pose a problem for me?

Am I really going to notice "flexing" between a 5/8 full vs. half?

Perhaps the 5/8 full hollow (Boker King Cutter or Dovo Best Quality) would still be just as good as a half hollow?

Not sure how much the "flexing" I'll have with medium-light density with seriously stubborn stubble around the chin that even gives my DE some challenges? Or if the "flexing" is more of an issue for someone who has a high density beard?

Or maybe the big difference between full vs. hollow is the weight, not really the flexing?

Or maybe the 6/8 half hollow would be better to start?

Or the 5/8 full hollow will be just fine?

Or search more for a 5/8 half hollow?

Thanks for the help,
Jake

Hi Jake,

I had the same conundrum recently. There seems to be a lot of advice suggesting that guys new to straights should use a 5/8 or 6/8 half hollow, but there aren't many choices for these if you want a new razor.

Ultimately, I settled for 5/8 full hollow (Dovo Ebenholtz), choosing size over grind. Waiting for it to arrive!

Oh well, I guess this is all part of the learning curve.

Let us know what you choose.

--David

Best shot a finding thicker grinds - the classifieds.

The TI super gnome is a quarter hollow and plenty stiff IME. You can find one here .

The recommendation in the FAQ is just that, a recommendation. Whether you choose a 5 or 6/8 will not make too much of a difference, anyhow. I find the bigger blades visually more appealing, but that is really all. As for the grind, hollow grinds vary, too. I personally find the Dovo 'Best Quality' a perfect starter razor (price vs performance cannot really be beat), but I would - for now - steer clear of singing full hollows like the 'Prima Klang'.

If you really want a thicker grind, our Classifieds or even Revisor's 'Rarität der Woche' might be an interesting place to start.

Happy shopping,
Robin

Jake,

+1 on Robins' suggestion of a Dovo Best 5/8 half-hollow.

This was the first razor I bought when I re-took up straight shaving in 2008.

It really is a good razor, and remains a favourtie of mine in my rotation.

The blade is very easy to maintain on pasted strops, and takes a lovely edge.

If you don't mind getting one from the UK, Mr Steve Dempster (BluePrinciple here on SRP) has them:

Dovo Razors

His honing is superb :)

:gl:

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Hey guys,

My first post here. After doing a lot of research regarding str8 shaving, I'm about ready to jump in razor first (with a light touch and proper angle of course). This seems like a great group of people who are really supportive so I'm looking forward to being a part of this.

I got my first str8 shave in Las Vegas last week at The Art of Shaving and it was one of the best pampering experiences I've had (it was the "Royal Shave" after all). Inspired me to give this a shot. Especially after the positive response I got from the Mrs. :)

Anyway, I had this same exact issue with seeing the recommendations for 6/8 half hollow being a great place to start because the half hollow is a little more forgiving for newbies and the 6/8 provides a little more weight to allow the razor to do the work. I was thinking with a longer face and issues with an angular jaw and smaller moustache area that a 5/8 might be better.

I emailed SRD to ask about whether these things matter as well as why half hollows didn't appear to be an option on SRD's site. The response I got was not to worry about it too much--that the full hollow actually can give a shaver more feedback while they're shaving to know whether they've made a correct stroke. I worry that may be an interesting way to learn if I make an incorrect stroke. I don't like corrective feedback!

Regarding the 5/8 or 6/8 the response was that I'm probably onto something with the 5/8 being good since I need some manueverability on my face.

The recommendation for my price range was the tortoise or the silver steel since they're somewhere "in between", which I think meant between full and half hollow--unfortunately the description of these razors on the SRD site does not mention their respective amounts of hollowing. I feel stuck and am figuring I may have to make an "Oh, what the hell" kind of purchase and flip a coin. Any suggestions between those two?

After reading many posts on here I realize the importance of a good professional honing for your first blade so I'm determined to buy off SRD to know what sharp really is. I'm also worried about screwing up that honing while I try to strop for the first time. Maybe I'll shave without stropping the first time... I've watched all the videos but I'm sure it looks easier on camera than it is in person.

To all of you who have written so many great tips on these forums to get me more comfortable with the idea of trying this, thanks! Now I have to take the next step and buy the razor, strop, brush, mug, strop, creams, balms...this gets expensive quick, doesn't it?!

Anyway, looking forward to hearing anyone's suggestions regarding the Dovo tortoise special vs. the silver steel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stubbles

[tortoise or the silver steel]Any suggestions between those two?

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It doesn't really matter. Both are nice razors. The Tortoise's fame leads back to an overenthusiastic amateur review on another forum. At the end of the day, I personally find its look tacky compared to the Ebenholz, but that is just personal preference. Can't really go wrong with either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stubbles

Now I have to take the next step and buy the razor, strop, brush, mug, strop, creams, balms...this gets expensive quick, doesn't it?!

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Not necessarily, cf Buying a beginner's set on a budget - Straight Razor Place Wiki - it only gets as expensive as you let it get. I certainly wouldn't start with something in the USD 130 price range (I did, however, start with something in the USD 200 price range myself, and promptly enhanced the gold plating on a Wacker with a big water stain).

While I would not skimp on the razor/strop combo, there is no need to buy a fancy brush. Also, a good quality cream will do nicely, but need not be overly expensive. Check our Reviews section for more information - you might be surprised how relatively inexpensive straight shaving can be.

Happy shopping,
Robin

Welcome to SRP Stubbles. Cool that you did your homework on what this straight razor shaving is about. Everyone fears stropping initially. Fear of rolling the edge or nicking the strop but with practice it comes easily if you take it slow.

Here is a 1961 barber manual excerpt from the SRP Wiki help files on honing and stropping for your perusal. The last two pages are on stropping and if you follow their instructions on holding the razor and learning to flip before you try doing the stroke you'll be well on your way to successfull stropping.

I've got them in sizes from 4/8 to 10/8 and my personal favorite is 5/8. Not better or worse, just what I feel is a perfect comprimise of form and function. While there probably isn't a dime's worth of difference between the 5 and 6 it is a fact that given the identical grind the 5 will be stiffer. Whichever you choose will be fine once you get going so no worries. :gl:

Hmmmm... I'd rather think that flexing of the blade would not be an issue. The hollowness gives you the feedback. But flexing? I've never observed blade flexing in my 4 full hollow straights, even during stropping.

The FAQ reads:

Quote:

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A half hollow grind offers enough heft for beginner shaving, yet also has some flexibility for comfort.

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Doesn't a full hollow (not a singing extra hollow) offer even more flexibility and comfort than half hollow?

Shouldn't more feedback from a full hollow vs. half be a good thing, not a bad thing?

For a beginner, why is it important to have more heft of the half hollow vs. full hollow?

Personally, I wouldn't be fretting about this stuff. Just buy the razor you want and you'll be fine.

Actually the hollowing space is a continuum and not discrete. Picking few discrete points in that space is just that.
At certain point the flex of the blade becomes noticeable.
New people don't have light touch so pushing too hard on a blade with quite a bit flex gives them poor results, the razor actually cuts worse, not better.
Feedback is a great thing to improving one's technique.
There is no difference in heft between full an half hollow. The difference in heft between razor comes almost entirely from differences spine thickness, not from the differences in hollowing.
More mass = less feedback = masking user errors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakyjake

I have a medium/average dense beard, with large stubborn stubble around the chin. Because of this tree trunk stubble around the chin, I'm leaning towards the half hollow to start.
.....snip...

However, I'm having difficulty finding a 5/8 half hollow razor. I was surprised I did not see one at SRD (Dovo or Boker). Other places list the 5/8 half hollow out of stock. The 5/8 full hollow seems to be popular and very available. The half hollow becomes fully available at 6/8.

Since the 5/8 half hollow is less available, that raises the caution flag. Perhaps it is not popular for a reason?
...........

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Do not be bashful -- if you cannot find a half hollow
to your liking on one of the sponsors web site pick up the
phone and ask.

In some cases the descriptions are hard to search...
But these guys know their inventory and their suppliers
inventory too... so ask.

I started SR shaving about 6-7 weeks ago with a 5/8 full hollow. I don't notice any flex. I tried the Tortoise / Special, and Silversteel / Ebony and both worked well. I liked the tortoise blade a tiny bit better, but in retrospect, I think any differences I noted between the blades was due to random variation in the grinding (the final grinding is done by hand), rather than true differences between models.

I found the 5/8 easier for me to use than the 6/8 under my nose, chin hollow, corners of the mouth, and hollows alongside my trachea due to it's manuverability and my ability to see around it. The 6/8 shaved a tiny bit easier on the flat areas like my cheeks, and the sides of my neck.

I found the feedback from the full hollow helped me get my angle "just right" a LOT. The feedback was just a sound, and I didn't get any of the flexure related "bites" that some webites (AOS?) mentioned.

ps: I bought a wetshaving kit from SRD (Tortoise Dovo, 3" Latigo strop, Stevensons's brush & SRD soap) and was very happy. Lynn was a great guy to deal with. I've also tried Poraso Cream and it worked well.

Personally I think no matter what blade you get, you're going to get used to it, you kinda have to if it's all you've got. I do recommend getting a good strop with your razor, and maybe a cheap one to practice on.

It sounds like the overall consensus is not to worry too much about how much hollowing you've got or which blade and just figure it out as you go. Probably good advice. I'm sure technique, prep, and patience will make most of the difference vs. half or full hollow or what width the blade is.

It's hard as someone totally new to this to really know if these things make a big difference or not. All we can do is ask, right?

I'm leaning toward the Ebenholz mostly for looks.

Thanks, guys.

-Stub

OK one more time with the details...

I always make the exact same Recommendation for a first razor... and here are the reasons..

One, Stropping there is a actual difference when stropping a 5/8 to 6/8 the 6/8 is way easier for a new guy to keep flat... This is a big deal, Stropping is the most over looked part of this hobby and really one of the most important..

Two, Mass some of the 6/8 sizes jump to the heavier spine size so yes they do have more mass so they actually are easier for a new guy to shave with... Many new guys start with rather tentative shaving styles the extra mass does help, which takes us to the next point.

Three, Half hollow the rather tentative style that a new guy has is greatly served by the extra stiffness of a half hollow, I would recommend a 1/4 hollow but there are even harder to find and way more expensive, I only recommend stuff that is available new and can be purchased anytime...

Four the Round point, what can I say they LOOK safer but honestly they'll cut ya just as fast...

Five, they are pretty much middle of the road, so on your second razor you can easily decide what direction to go next.... Oh yes there will be second razor LMAO

Now you can buy any razor you want, really you can, but those are the actual reasons behind my reommendations...however people have been starting with all different razors for a long time and so can you.... A recommendation is only that a starting point nothing more...

BTW Dovo and TI have these razors..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakyjake

Not sure how much the "flexing" I'll have with medium-light density with seriously stubborn stubble around the chin that even gives my DE some challenges? Or if the "flexing" is more of an issue for someone who has a high density beard?

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A sharp edge will cut through the stubble just the same. I think you are confused about the idea of flex. A hollow, or as an extreme, a singing / extra hollow, will flex not against the hair, which it should slice through, but against the contour of your face.

I had read about blade flex on the forum when I started out and didn't remember experiencing it in shaving with a straight back in the '80s for a short time. When I came back to it thanks to SRP one of my first razors was a vintage Puma High Class 6/8. I was doing the WTG down my cheek and darned if I didn't feel the flex in the blade. I felt it to the point where I stopped and held the blade in front of me and looked at it for a bit before I continued the shave. Since then when I do feel a blade flex I don't pay any attention to it. As the kids say, it's all good. :)

I have a fairly tough beard and my first razor was a DOVO Black Star full hollow, which shaves me just great. I also have a W&B full wedge and that shaves me great as well!

TBH, I'd just pick a razor you like and go with that one. Glen's recommendations are just that; Recommendations and a starting point. You dont have to rigidly stick to them, its just a good pointer if you have no idea which way to go.

I am sure most of you have seen this before, but in case not, it is from Heribert Wacker's site at Impressionen eines Handwerks

http://www.wacker-rasiermesser.de/im...llung7_510.jpg

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Originally Posted by BeBerlin

I am sure most of you have seen this before, but in case not, it is from Heribert Wacker's site at Impressionen eines Handwerks

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Robin, I remember that photo, or one like it, being posted in a thread having to do with grinds many moons ago. I had thought of trying to search for the tread to illustrate the point that full hollows have flex. A picture is indeed worth a thousand words. :)

Edit; got over my laziness and found the thread where it was posted here. It was on the topic of grinds of SRs.

i have one razor in my rotation that has really noticeable flex, my boker edelwisse and she cuts thru my barbwire chin wiskers without a hitch.and i have razors rangeing for 3/8ths thru 9/8ths all give a great shave. this has led to conclude that a razor is a razor. if its sharp it will get the job done. so find one you like the looks of and make sure it was honed by someone who knows what he or she is doing and shave away.the classifieds are a great place to find what you are looking for. also if i were you i would get a great strop a tony miller latigo or srd bridle. your stropping will either make or break your shave.hope this helps ...enjoy