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What's with all you Newbies that are beating the hell out of yourselves after a few shaves? You knew this would be hard. And, you knew there was going to be the possibility of some blood.
You guys are doing really well and should be pleased with your progress. Write down all of the things that are going good instead of the stuff that isn't.
And, Lord Have Mercy, have some fun.:D
Now go back in there and strop your razor 100 strokes. There, now doesn't that feel better?;)
:beer1:
I have seen a ton of people selling off their whole kits (strops, straights, pastes, etc.) on the forums lately.
amazing....getting intot his i knew it was going to take some time to get it right..but it was def worth it.....stupid DE cut me faster than a straight
I agree 100%.
i think patience is 1 of the big factors.
Everyone thinks they will start using st8 and next day or 2 they will get march3 results etc. it will take time guys.gl
I agree! Even though I've given myself two hefty scars on my left cheek, I'm not going to give up!
Things that are going well for me:
1.) Comfort after the shave is about a million times better than with a modern cartridge razor. There's no painful prickliness the next day. Also, since one blade does what 5 did before, my skin is far less irritated.
2.) I enjoy the ritual that comes with the shaving. It's relaxing and reflective. Usually I turn up the TV in the living room and play one of my favorite shows (Futurama or South Park these days) as background noise, or for an occasional giggle. It's nice to focus my attention on one thing (shaving) and not have to worry about the thousands of stressors in life.
3.) Smoothness after the shave is waaaaay better than with a Fusion. I only need to shave about every 3 days, and if I let it grow out, no need to fret, because a straight will mow it down without trouble (while it seems like cartridge razors refuse to shave any beard that's been growing even a second more than 24 hours).
So, for any fellow newbies reading out there, don't despair! Nothing worthwhile is made or learned in a day. I still have a lot of learning and practice to do, but I know that if I persevere through this difficult first stage of learning, I will be set for life. In terms of shaving, at least.
It took me six months to start to understand the multiple factors such as stropping, angles, and strokes to get nice results in my shave. I always tell new guys this so they understand that a week will not make you get BBS shaves or barber's knowledge.
Is that really the case? I am seeing more beginners than in previous years who are apparently under the impression that all you need to do is buy a Filarmonica and you will get a BBS shave immediately. Additionally, and despite our best efforts to provide information to the contrary, there seem to be more people who come here with exaggerated expectations. I have tried to compile a number of Common misconceptions and mistakes in the FAQ, such as "there is a best razor", or "my newly acquired, and pre-honed, razor is not shave ready because it does not pass some test".Quote:
Originally Posted by Alembic
Straight razor shaving is an acquired skill. It takes a lot of time and patience. Some members seem to have mastered it within weeks, but that appears to be the exception. It took me several months to consistently get shaves that were markedly better than those from a DE. That is something that we all should keep in mind when we encounter beginners.
On a personal note, I would always discourage beginners to invest too heavily in their first equipment. I think it raises expectations, and can lead to self depreciation faster: 'I paid for the best kit in the world, but after 10 shaves, I am still not perfect - something must be wrong with me.' Or something along those lines. I made the best progress when Coully provided me with a cheap 6/8 round point razor that is now on its way to Scotland in the hope that it will serve another beginner equally well.
Regards,
Robin
I think a lot of people think this would be EASY and they'll get BBS shaves while the razor slices through like the facial hair is hot butter. I then see blame put on the honer or honemeister that sent out the blade to the purchaser.
Like I said, in months, they should see the light, but patience must prevail.
I think a lot of it has to do with relative newcomers making absolute statements about the shaving capabilities of certain products, razors in particular. "That puppy shaves like a dream", "hands down the totally best shaver ever", "delivers the best shaves bar none", and similarly misleading statements are prone to making beginners believe that the trick is to get a certain piece of equipment. And this is, in my opinion, wrong. The razor is one factor, but there are several others, technique and experience being the main one.
Regards,
Robin
I'm a SR newbie, and I have to agree with all of you fine gentlemen. I was drawn to SR shaving not because of a promise of the best shave on earth, but because of the history of the art of shaving. I have been interested in SR shaving since my early 20s (in my mid 40s now), and I'm positively stoked to find this wonderful community that we can all visit to learn from and share our knowledge through. Like anything worth undertaking, I expected there to be a steep learning curve, and I would have been disappointed if I'd have "figured it all out" with my first SR shave. When I started out, I expected to cut and nick myself, though those events have been kept to a minimum. With each shave I am learning more about my face, more about how to use these fine shaving instruments, and thoroughly enjoying the process of learning this art we call straight razor shaving. I look forward to each day's shave, thanks in no small part to all the senior members' assistance. And as a result, I am having the best, closest, and most comfortable shaves of my life - not to mention feeding my gear-junkie obsession by collecting beautiful old razors!
Thank you all for your generous contribution of knowledge and time to help us new folks. I am very grateful for everyone's time and patience with all of us new guys.
Warm regards,
Larry
Straight shaving is not a rocket science, but I feel like people coming from DE and cartridge have tough times understanding angle and pressure control. SR shaves are not automatic BBS, they require a bit of attention to work right, but imo not the big deal some people make out of it.
Yeah it's the case. I'm trying to get people to focus on the good aspects of their begginings, not the bad. Maybe a little tough love mixed in:DQuote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
I really have to agree with you on investing too heavily when you start. I actually think its a bad idea. You have no idea what is going to work for you or if you are even going to like it. I invested in a Dovo Special 6/8 to start. I haven't shaved with it in almost two months. Should have got the Dovo Best Quality.
I disagree.
I think the newbies should just realize they have no talent for shaving. Stop butchering your faces!
Go on guys...GIVE UP!
sell your stuff! That NOS filly that you bought for 250 bucks is used now, so sell it to me.
And that SRD strop... and that super soft brush. I'll give you 150 for the lot!:p
(what can i say, I'm an opportunistic bastard)
There is saying in golf that, "It's not the equipment, its the operator." Beginning golfers usually start out thinking that if they purchase the most expensive set of clubs, balls, etc. that they will be able to hit it longer and straighter as well as sink more putts than Tiger Woods. After awhile, they find--much to their dismay--that being a good golfer requires patience as well as devoting a lot of time to learning the basics.
IMHO the same is true of str8 razor shaving. Nobody should expect to achieve a perfect BBS shave after only a few days looking in the mirror with a face full of lather and a sharp instrument poised in their hand. Like achieving the perfect golf swing, there are just too many variables in play to achieve perfection in str8 razor shaving in a short amount of time. Barbers spend years, even decades, perfecting their skill at str8 razor shaving--and even they occasionally nick or cut a customer.
I approach my str8 razor shaving a lot like I approach golf. Although I regret not getting involved with either skill set until late in life, I have come accept the fact that I will have good days and bad days. I don't beat myself up when I slice a drive or miss a putt, and I don't beat myself up when I nick myself or don't get a perfect shave. That I'm not alone in nicking or cutting myself is evident from the supply of styptic available in my local drugstore. They sure do make a lot of it.
When I entered the world of str8 razor shaving last December, I accepted the fact that I would probably never reach the upper echelons of skill. It still takes me twice as long to shave with my str8 than it did with my Mach 3 or my DE. Chances are that I will never be able to shave in 15 minutes or less with a str8. But I really don't care. The world is in far too big a rush to go to hell in a handbasket for my tastes anyway. I may occasionally nick or cut my face, but my soul is rested. The satisfaction that I get from a str8 razor shave each morning--BBS or just ok--suits me just fine. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Thanks for the great post Alembic,
When i started with straights some years ago i had my late grandfathers Swedes. It took about months before i had shaves that i was happy. I was already familiar with sharpening things, and i knew that old man had shaved ok with them so i couldn't even blame that the razors were bad. I knew there is a learning curve. Some learn it faster and for some, like me, it took some time more. I'm still learning.
I think we can no point enough for those who've just started that it is not the brand of the razor, hone or strop that makes the good shave alone. it is how you use them them. Mostly about our skills. I'm not saying that there would be no difference between razor brands, but that doesn't matter if you just want to make a good shave. Our grandfather didn't have any 50K hyperstones and still they did their shaves ok.
It is a sign of the times that people nowadays want everything here and now, even with straight razors.
For all the straight shavers who started long before SRP came to be (and didn't have a mentor like a grandfather to show them the ropes): I don't know if I should pity them or admire them. How many quit in disgust or suffered through horrible shaves because they didn't know what they were doing. There was no one telling them they were either on the right track or doing something terribly wrong.
The support network that SRP provides newbs is a priceless resource, the next best thing to having an old time barber stand over your shoulder and critique your performance. Just another reminder to the new guys to listen to the experience of the members trying to help them. We know because we've been there ;)
Ladies and gentlemen:
Thanks to our good friend Alembic for bringing up the subject of newbies being a tad too hard on themselves. I do concur with every point he makes. Other members have expounded upon the subject thoughtfully as well.
Newbie ladies and gentlemen, please bear with me for the following story:
Ignacy Paderewski (1860-1941), one of the greatest pianists of all time, once said: "If I don't practice for one day, I know it. If I don't practice for two days, the critics know it. If I don't practice for three days, the audience knows it."
So you see, my dear newbies, it takes practice, even for the greatest ones. Anything worthwhile, if you want to be good at it, takes time and practice. Granted, when compared to what it takes to be a great pianist, straight razor shaving is a solitary note floating in the air. Still, it does take practice over a period of time. It also takes patience and repetition.
Please stay focused. Every shaver goes through the same learning process. I did, and I still have a long way to go. Some shavers become adept faster than others for various reasons, but in the end, we all nail down a major accomplishment and become skilled straight razor shavers.
Regards,
Obie
Straight razor shaving really isn't that difficult once you get the angle correct, and the feeling that the razor is just an extension of your hand. There is nothing like the feel of just the right sharpness of the blade being passed over your face (especially one that you have honed yourself). I started off with 12 nicks on my face the first day, but by God, when I walked out of the bathroom, bloody alum block in hand, I was grinning from ear to ear at the feeling of accomplishment.
I had shaved with a straight edge without killing myself.
Today, I can shave myself twice in under 15 mins (although I usually like to take a bit longer for pleasure...I love trying out new hand positions while smelling one of my favorite lathers). All this without a single cut or nick. There is a lot that can be said about straight shaving that is downright magical. But one needs to have the patience to see the show happen. When you do finnaly get the wet BBS feel on your face without any razor burn or a single nick, you'll experience the one of the most exclusive nirvanas on earth.
Trust me.
Keep at it.
As a n00b coming into this i don`t know if i just had realistic expectations, or if i`m just good.
I`m currently wrighting an essay on the diffrence between shaving with a straight and modern shaving with a cartridge.
The one advantage of a cartridge razor is the fact that they are so easy to use, you can rub them back and forth over your face without a single nick, and with as much or as little pressure as you want.
this is the main reason i believe that cartridge razors have become so popular.
To be able to scrape your face for 2 minuites with a mock 3 while your still asleep before work in the morning rather than the extensive prep and care needed with a straight shave is an appeal i can understand.
I wonder then if people turn to straight shaving because it is "cool" I wonder if one of the reasons people are struggling to come to terms with straight shaving is the reasons they turn to it.
My reasons for trying straight shaving are many, the simple logic of 1 blade rather than 3 should mean a third less shaving rash but also maybe i like the idea of learning a skill that EVERY man had 100 years ago but now a very few have.
I hope i offend nobody when i say this, but are the people who are giving up after a week getting into this for any reeason other than the "image" they percieve a straight razor to have wether it be cool, or dangerous.
And when they then struggle with it do they give it up?
Or do they think that BBS is what every one should aim for every day?
Because i don`t, i aim for a good close shave, BBS for me takes a lot of work. and it just isn`t worth it.
I admit that i have a lot to learn still and i bet that even in 40 years i`ll still be learning. but it is my face and i get a good shave that is close and comfortable, and i`m happy with it.
Why Aim for BBS?
maybe tomorrow i`ll discover some super technique that will allow me to get BBS all over my face in 2 passes. It currently takes me 4 passes to get BBS with some fine touch ups after. I`ll happily do that on my wedding day or job interviews, but not everyday.
I`m aware i`m a newbie, and my technique needs some work, i don`t expect the next razor i buy to give me better shaves. but i plan to see what works for my face. i will try several different pattern blades in diffrent sizes and see what i like. but thats the fun thing thats what makes this a hobby rather than a chore for me. I get to learn and try new things.
Maybe the newbies arent thinking of it like that, maybe they are just looking at a new tool to do there chore for them and hoping it would be easier or better.
But it has been my experience over the past 2 months or so that straight shaving is a skill that needs to be learned, and that throwing money at it gets you prettier things, but not necessarily better.
When starting to shave with a straight you need to understand that this is one of the most personal things you can do, its your hands holding your razor next to your face. if you don`t feel comfortable or don`t get the result you want with one teqnique try some thing else. there is no one way to shave. there are infinite variables in your skin and hair make up that could mean that one prep technique is better than another, the same with razor angle.
When a newbie asks about why his shave feels rough and we know his razor is sharp, tell him to play around with it, find what works for him. Don`t regurgitate the "your razor should be at 30 degrees" and such like.
Experimentation is what worked for me and i`m quite happy with my results at the moment or maybe i have my bar set much lower than all you guys,
sorry for the rant......
I think it all relates to patience.
I started out with the tip of just shaving a small portion of my face and getting good in one week at that and then adding a small portion every week until the whole face was finally done.
It gave me a ton of confidence when I was getting a great shave on my right cheek every week and could compare to my left cheek and see what a crappy job my Gilette was giving me.
Also the time spent learning the left hand approach to shaving made me feel great about shaving also.
It's just a time factor. I think that most new people jump into wet shaving feet first and go for a full face shave before they are ready. They haven't played enough with their razor or gotten to know their face yet. That is the whole reason for the taking it piece at a time.
Oh well, to each their own.
Marc
While I agree with the spirit of the OP, I also think it is a good thing to set the bar high. Being hard on yourself is one of the ways to achieve great things, in any walk of life. But all within reason of course.
There's nothing wrong with being disappointed, or failing, or screwing up. Everyone does it, and will continue to do it, until the day they die. What you need to develop is an additional mechanism that takes that disappointment, failure, or whatever, examines the causes of it dispassionately, maps out a plan to overcome it, and then implement it. All within the context of what you want to achieve.
That kind of approach takes a certain level of self-honesty, and it also takes a certain level of emotional (and, when using straights, perhaps physical) robustness. It also takes humility, patience, and determination.
I have no doubts that people who have achieved great things in life have also experienced great disappointments along the way. The thing that differentiates them from others is what they do with the disappointment - rather than let it control them, I would suggest they controlled it, and used it to learn how to do things better.
So I say set the bar high, always aim for the acme, but expect to be disappointed, and know how to deal with it. In the context of straights, that's where this forum and the more experienced members can play a part. Try to be constructive in your self-criticism: it is hard to help without specifics to go on. And never think you are the only one experiencing the particular difficulty you have atm - I can guarantee someone, somewhere, has had a similar, if not identical, issue at some time.
Auntie (Tough Love) Jimbo.
Obie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Obie
You have such a scholarly way with words. The way you weave them, it makes your statements seem beyond reproach. Thanks.
I think we should all encourage the necomers to stop being so hard on themselves and focus on each aspect that was good or better than the day before.
They fight two things. The first is not wanting to be bad at something as an adult, and the second is the instant gratification. I actually think str8 razor shaving reveals ones character to oneself. There is patience, overcoming struggle, gentlemanliness, respect, care, etc.
Oops, there I go getting philosophical again.
Ok, the bottom line is quit focusing on the negative, it is polluting your mind and interfering with your enjoyment and learning.
David
I can't disagree with one single point you made Jimbo. I think between you and Obie you have tempered my point better than I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
My dear David:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alembic
You are so right about everything you have said. You have my vote on every word. My general belief is this: Things are never as bad as they seem, unless, of course, one is on one's deathbed — and that is as bad as it gets.
Shaving with a straight razor is a learned skill. If you push too hard, you'll face a wall of frustrations. So settle down. Take a breath. Approach your task methodically and patiently. You'll get there.
By the way, David, thank you for the kind words.
Regards,
Obie
I agree with you, especially there's assumption that if they bought the best equipment they'll get the best <---that's the culprit, too high expectation, this is something that I was trying to avoid weeks ago, that's why in my first thread I'm looking something as "starter" or "beginner", not really a type of razor because I know all razor simply cut and that's the purpose, but I want something that I can rely on, good steel and it should hold edge and not very expensive, just want to see if this is for me. First shave was OK, maybe because it's a 2 weeks beard, I feel confident enough to shave and magically with no cut, of course in my chin area its not too clean but hey, I didn't cut while I have a razor that can simply cut a hanging hair, glde in my face...second shave is worse, I cut several area in my chin, trying to clean the unfinished area...but it's ok, I'm thinking this is a journey, even I've started to forget that the reason why I'm buying something cheaper and not 100bucks razor is because I want to see if this is for me, that thinking is disappear and all I see is an adventure and journey forward, now I have problem, I always want to shave everyday, while that's simply not possible, there's no hair in it :rofl2: about the chin area, that's the biggest problem, even with battery shaver and mach3 I'll have blood in that area, dunno what's problem my skin, I'm thinking I have a very very very sensitif/thin skin there. So, first shave, side burn, under the cheek, adam's apple, mustache are all good, chin? month of practice I guess, even 6 years using battery shaver and mach3 not really help, it still bleed in some occasion.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
The problem now is that...it's just been sometime since I started str8 shave, but now I'm kind addicted to visit the classified, reading all the razor clubs thread, it's like I'm falling in love with those blades :thinking:
ps. I always get the closest shave when I'm shaving a 3 weeks beard, it's happen during my mach3 days, and I wonder if that's also the case with str8
Straight razor shaving is like any other skill. Buying the best kit doesnt make you the best, it just makes you a guy with great kit..!
I have an Ibanez Jem, but can I play like Steve Vai? Err... no! I'll need to do a lot more practice to get up to that level.
The other thing with straight razor shaving is that the kit is actually only a small part of it. I reckon there are four elements to a really great shave;
- A shave ready razor
- Good stropping
- Good lather and prep
- Good technique
So having a NOS Filli and an expensive strop is great, and will definately serve you well, but they will be for nothing if your stropping technique, lather, prep and shaving technique suck.
Its not enough to have good kit, you need to know how to use it as well and I do agree with Robin that some people forget this! You need to put the time into it, above all else, to get the best results.
Someone with a Dorko strop, a DOVO Best Quality and the knowledge to use it will get a much better shave than someone with a Filli and a Nakayama strop and no clue what they're doing.
But that said, when you dont get the results you want right off the bat, dont go out there and throw in the towel! By all means, be hard on yourself to get the best shave you can, and want to get great lather, prep, stropping and so on, but just be aware that you will need to actually put the work in and take the time to get the results you want.
Great post David! :)
As a complete newbie ( only been doing this for 2 weeks ) I can say that one needs to really look at why they are interested in Straight shaving in depth as well. I am doing this because conventional cart razors and even electric razors gave me such a nasty razor burn I hated shaving and would go months without doing it sometimes just to give my skin a break (which then drew the ire of my wife). I have found with shaving with a straight that my skin is much better for it.
Now is my shave BBS.. heck no but due to the irritation from more modern methods my face feels smoother now than it ever really did before even 2 days after I shave.
Also in this crazy instant gratification as soon as possible world I enjoy just taking the time to myself and the focus I need to not cut myself when shaving. It puts me in a better mood every morning after I shave.
As far as kit I am one of those do-it-yourself people as well so I find restoring an old blade intriguing and also know that because I have restored the blade it may not be the best currently and as I learn more it will become better.
Again this is my path and what I have chosen that works for me. YMMV but keep at it and enjoy the "You" time no matter what the results currently and know it can only get better.
I was having big problems getting my shaving sorted, it seemed i couldn't hone my razor properly, i kept slicing up my face when shaving both very off putting to say the least. However when it eventually clicked, that moment of clarity when you realize you got it right for the first time, everything else didn't matter i knew from then onwards that i would slowly beginning to improve and that's how it's been.
Now i could have very easily given up and sold all my kit after a month of seemingly getting nowhere fast but i'd invested quite a bit of money and time in this so i wasnt going to give up that easily and i had plenty of time to learn too.
So what was the turning point for me ? I'd been making my own strops and doing my best to keep costs down, i have 4 strops now for less than £10 so that cant be too bad, and experimenting on what to treat the surface with when i stumbled upon a simple leather cream from my local supermarket that did exactly what i wanted. As soon as i stropped with it i knew i was there.
Job done now to learn to shave :)
ian
As one of the newbies who has posted recent updates on his first shave, I want to be clear about something. Nothting in my post was meant to be self depricating. Except maybe for the comment about my slice. Really, even a newbie should know that the razor should NOT move that way.
I think this forum has done a fine job of settting expectations. I didn't expect BBS (said so in my post) and didn't expect to have great stropping skills even though I bout a great strop.
And speaking of equipment, I haven't seen any noob posts talking about buying a Livi or even a filly. But I disagree with the comments that imply equipment doesn't matter. My other hobby is music. The best, pre-war Martin (worth a LOT of Livi's!!!) will not make you a great guitar player. However, the best guitar player in the world can't pull the tone out of an Estaban that he/she can a vintage instrument. So, there is some balance between equipment and skill. I think this is especially true of someone learning a new skill.
The best straight razor won't make you a great shaver on day one, but poor equipment absolutely will slow your progress. I also think that anything that introduces doubt into the process may be a hinderance as well. For example, I invested in a new, professionally honed razor and a very good quality strop. For me, buying a restored razor from someone I don't know would have introduced a lot of doubt into the process. Same is true for my strop choice.
I know stropping is a skill I need to learn over time, but I also know that any errors in that area are due to my input in the process, not the equipment. That allows me to focus on the skill rather than the implements. Look for a more detailed post from me on a thought I had regarding my SRP bridle strop, and whether or not a brand new stropper should have bought such a thing.
I think the best thing the forum can do is continue to provide good reviews of equipment (remember, we won't all be new forever) and lots of words of encouragement. The folks that get it, will get it. Those that don't probably won't no matter what you say or do.
Just some thoughts from a guy on day three of this sport/hobby/craziness that is straight razor shaving.
--David
You can learn so very much on internet forums and SRP is a perfect example. I was flying blind for years before I found this place.
However… internet forums are a place where many people <ahem> exaggerate. If the novice needs a point of comparison for his shave of today it should be the one he had yesterday not Mast3tershv3rBubba’s BBS wetdream.
Me? Thousands of shaves, still a beginner.
Semper Circa
Awareness, humility, and patience. Three qualities that I feel are important as it pertains to straight razor shaving ( and really, anything ).
Be aware of what is happening, as it is happening.
Be humble enough to honestly assess your progress without negative self-talk.
Be patient - realize that sucess rarely happens overnight. In fact, it is precisely the learning curve that makes it fun.
Just my thoughts on the suject ( a little over 4 months in )
Ken