How many neck passes?

I have been SR shaving for probably 8 months now. It takes me at least 3 if not 4 passes to get my face BBS (WTG , XTG L to R, {XTG R to L}, ATG) <-- the 2nd XTG is not always done, but it does seem to help.

I don't mind that many passes and it doesn't iritate my skin but it does take quite some time. I would say that my total shave is 20-30 minutes depending on if I just showered or if I need to soften my face with hot towels.

Does this sound like too many passes or too much time?
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Also, even after 4 passes most of my neck still is rough, i.e. not BBS. I think part of this is because my neck hair grows mostly sideways (from my ears in towards me adam's apple) and it's pretty much impossible to do a true ATG on my neck. I usually do a pass down from my jaw line toward my chest, then a pass up from my chest towards my jaw line, then optionally { I do a pass up from my chest towards my jaw line with the blade purely horizontal but my pass is diagonally up and towards my ears}, and then I finish with a motion up from my chest towards my jaw line with the blad purely horizontal but my motion is diagonally up and in towards my chin.

I am tyring to attack my hair from as many angles as possible, and I do stretching, but perhaps I need to stretch more or try other directions.

I would appreciate you input as to the following:
1) How long does it take you go get a BBS shave?
2) How many passes do you do?
3) Is your neck ever BBS? If yes, then how?
4) Any other tips you might want to share.

Sorry about the long post, it's a great forum here and I look forward to your replies.
-Ty

To answer your questions:

1) About 15 minutes, start to finish.

2) As many as it takes to get BBS..! Dont think about "I must get BBS in one pass", its more about beard reduction with each pass until you get the BBS result. My neck is also a tough area and it took me a while to work out the right stretching and pass direction to get a BBS shave.

3) It is, but each persons shave will be different. How I got there was mapping which way my beard grows, stretching the skin to make the hairs stand up and then working out the right pass to attack those hairs for a BBS result. You'll need to do this too for your beard and this is how you'll get a BBS shave.

I also learnt how to make good lather, how to prepare my face for the shave (pre shave prep) and good stropping technique. All of these things will also make a difference.

4) Rather like learning to play an instrument, there is no magic formula or special product or technique that will make your shaves better. It really is a case of learning to make good lather, making sure your stropping is good, learning which way your beard grows, working out the right skin stretching for your beard, learning which passes and the directions that work for you and combining all of that with a shave ready razor.

In terms of passes, for me I found that going XTG on my cheeks gets me a great result right off the bat so now I dont do WTG passes on my cheeks. I also learnt that I cant do an ATG pass as it irritates my skin. But that said, these techniques may not work for everyone, so people need to develop their own shave style.

I also find the scything strokes and toe leading strokes work well on my neck, just due to the growth direction, so you might try those to see if they work for you.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Ask google for '"whisker map" +swf site:straightrazorplace.com', that's an SWF application by member The Baron. Fill in, print out, shave accordingly. 3 passes should do.

I'll look at that application.

I have made a map before and I try to go ATG but on my neck it is difficult.

5) Scything is where you slightly turn the toe of the blade, i.e. a little arc motion, right?

6) It's normal for each pass to take off a little more hair than the earlier one, rather than having all the hair taken off in one or two passes right?

7) Should I expect to be further along since I've been SR shaving for 8 months now? Will I ever get there?

5) Have a look at this article from the Wiki. It'll explain a lot of those shaving passes and other techniques.

6) Yep! Sometimes you'll remove all the hair at once, but because hair and skin are flexible you probably will need a few passes to clear it all off as what you're cutting shifts around a bit as you shave.

7) Again, I dont think there is a specific time for it to take to get things down. The more I shave, the more I learn about how to tackle those problem areas.

Just recently I found a way of tackling my chin that gets more of the stubble that grows around a scar I have there, from a bumper car steering wheel strangely enough..! The hair grows every which way around the scar, and this technique clears most of it off.

Its all about finding the techniques that work for you, and that takes as long as it takes.

If something isnt working though, dont keep doing it but try something else. The method you're using on your neck right now isnt optimal for you, so read the wiki article I linked, try re-mapping your beard and figure some different pass directions that hopefully will work better.

Its all part of the fun..! :D

But yes, if you keep down the road of trying things and altering/changing them to suit your beard then you'll get there..!

Good luck and keep us posted!

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Originally Posted by TyGuy

I'll look at that application.

I have made a map before and I try to go ATG but on my neck it is difficult.

5) Scything is where you slightly turn the toe of the blade, i.e. a little arc

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Easiest to say similar to slicing tomatoes. toe could go forward or backward. In fact this is a little tricky. If someone else shaves you toe should go forward always but when you do shaving yourself things are changes. hope i am clear. very important making small strokes and stretching skin.

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motion, right?

6) It's normal for each pass to take off a little more hair than the earlier one, rather than having all the hair taken off in one or two passes right?

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i have a little different opinion on this. i think if you do have right sharpness blade and shave with right technique you should be fine with just 2 passes WTG AND XTG.

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7) Should I expect to be further along since I've been SR shaving for 8 months now? Will I ever get there?

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You should be in there already. In the other hand you have been in it for 8 months this means you have most important factor -patience on your side.

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REMEMBER THIS your blade doesn't need any pressure to cut facial hair. if you do use pressure to shave then sharpness is issue.

Even if I haz right sharpness blade, I need three passes. Maybe it has do with my beard growth. Because, you know, all generalisations are wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TyGuy

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I would appreciate you input as to the following:
1) How long does it take you go get a BBS shave?
2) How many passes do you do?
3) Is your neck ever BBS? If yes, then how?
4) Any other tips you might want to share.
-Ty

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Hello TyGuy:

I am a full-blooded Assyrian. That means my beard is heavy, tough, and on the neck, it grows in 37 different directions. Now, to answer your questions:

1. I spend about 45 minutes every morning on the shave. I can do it faster, but I take my time to enjoy the complete ritual of wet shaving with a straight razor. When in a rush, I use my double edge. BBS is most difficult for me on the neck.

2. I make three passes: with the grain, across it and against it.

3. Sometimes I do four passes on the neck, but even then I fail to achieve a perfect BBS no matter how I stretch and what angle I use.

4. The best tip I can give you is this: Embrace the whole ritual of wet shaving with the straight razor and don't put a heavy emphasis on BBS, especially on the neck, if yours is as difficult as mine.

Regards,
Obie

I do one pass on my neck.

If I did any more than that, I'd have razor burn for a week.

I've just got skin sensitivity in the 100th percentile. It's my fair, super-sensitive Irish skin. My beard is fairly coarse, but my skin just HATES to be messed with.

So, I do one pass WITH the grain, and call it a day. Is it BBS? Nope. But it's smooth enough, and the irritation isn't worth doing another pass.

~ ryan

I should mention, to answer a post here, that I don't put extra pressure on the blade. Both of my razors were honed by Lynn so I am pretty sure that sharpness is not an issue.

Like I said, I can get my face BBS, but it takes 3-4 passes. It's really my neck that is most annoying.

Thank you all for your comments. I do try and enjoy my shaving in the morning. It's just that sometimes I am rushed and I end up using a bic razor. I know I know......

1) How long does it take you go get a BBS shave?
A. 30 minutes or so.

2) How many passes do you do?
A. 3

3) Is your neck ever BBS? If yes, then how?
A. Never. The grain goes west to east down there, impossible to cut across the grain without losing at least a pint.

4) Any other tips you might want to share.
A. Just a comment. You've shaved now for 8 months. From what you've described, I'm convinced that you are getting the best shave you can. One possiblity for improvement could be the type of razor if you have not tried different grinds. I find that, for me, very heavy classic razors give me closer shaves. Big W&Bs seem to plow the stuff off very close. Again, my face.

Regards,
Marc

I guess that I have only tried full hollow up until this point.

Actually I have a wedge that I borrowed from another SRP user. I could try that again, but it's a spike point so I didn't like it before. However, now that I have been shaving for awhile, and I don't usually nick myself anymore, I could try it again and see how that does. Perhaps I should try a half hollow too.

Is there an online razor rental place like Netflix? That's what I need!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TyGuy

I have been SR shaving for probably 8 months now. It takes me at least 3 if not 4 passes to get my face BBS (WTG , XTG L to R, {XTG R to L}, ATG) <-- the 2nd XTG is not always done, but it does seem to help.

...I usually do a pass down from my jaw line toward my chest, then a pass up from my chest towards my jaw line, then optionally { I do a pass up from my chest towards my jaw line with the blade purely horizontal but my pass is diagonally up and towards my ears}, and then I finish with a motion up from my chest towards my jaw line with the blad purely horizontal but my motion is diagonally up and in towards my chin.

-Ty

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From this description, it sounds like your first pass is actually ATG and the rest are all WTG. This is the opposite of most shaving routines. While neck hairs do grow in every direction they can find, in general, I believe they tend to point in a northern direction. This would make a pass from jaw to chest against the grain. If you're doing only your first pass this way, the subsequent passes probably aren't doing much. Try reversing your method and see what happens.

I've been SR shaving about 4 months and have the same sideways & lay flat to the skin neck hairs. I've been experimenting for 2.5 months (of daily shaves), and am finally getting somewhere. Here's what's did the trick for me:
- 1 N-S pass with the razor angled a bit and the skin stretched toward the direction the tips of the hair point - but just until taught and not farther (overstretching was causing a LOT of razor burn for me).
- Clean up the valley alongside the trachea (if pass #1 was worse than usual) using a sything motion (which gets the tip moving "almost" horizontal).
- 1 S-N pass while pushing my trachea into the valley that's normally alongside it and stretching my skin the other direction. (I think stretching the skin "wrong" direction has more to do with getting the skin onto a different curvature of my neck than getting the hairs to stand up).

My neck still isn't BBS, but the stubble is short enough now that I don't feel it sticking into my shirt collar until evening.

I can get my neck smoother with another pass or two (DFS), but always get razor burn when I do. I'm hoping that in another few months my technique will have improved enough to allow the extra pass...

ps: I notice that I do better with both razor burn and smoothness if I wash off the lather and relather to do my neck. I'm slow enough that the lather has become stiffer (dryer), and it makes a difference. My total shaving time with lather prep, stropping, etc is ~ 25-30 minutes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obie

The best tip I can give you is this: Embrace the whole ritual of wet shaving with the straight razor and don't put a heavy emphasis on BBS, especially on the neck, if yours is as difficult as mine.

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Wise counsel, as always, Obie! :)

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Originally Posted by LarryP

Wise counsel, as always, Obie! :)

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Hello, Larry:

Bless your heart for the kind words. Thanks.

Your friend,
Obie

I shall try some of the suggestions given here, and I'll let you know how it goes. I'll also mention that I re-wet and re-lather my face after each pass. I have a scuttle from George Town pottery that I keep on a candle warmer so at least I have nice hot lather.

I used to really enjoy the SR shave, even though it took 20-30 minutes. I think my frustration lately has been from feeling that I have reached a plateau and that my shaves won't get any better. I hope that they will.

I pretty much duplicate what you do.

30 minutes.

4 passes

BBS on all areas.

Stubear's comments on scything and toe leading are right on mark. For sideways neck growth under the jaw, I would never be able to get these areas without it.

Obie also is giving you sage-like advice. Who cares if it takes 30 minutes? I have to admit that when the shave is over, it is a little like finishing a good book. I wish it hadn't ended. I treat each shave as unique, building upon the foundation from all previous shaves.

Now, one more suggestion. Based on some advice I was given by Jeremy (ShavedZombie), I strop 20-30 strokes before the ATG. Think about it. The hardest pass with the need for the sharpest edge is the last one we do. I have read that a man's whisker can have the tensile strength of a piece of copper wire of the same diameter. If that is true, we are beating the hell out of the edge in the first 3 passes, then use the edge to make the hardest pass. So give that a try, I have really noticed a difference in my ATG pass.

Good Luck to you.

David

IME I shave for about a month now, manage to get 3 passes in 30 minute or so and yeah it's BBS...somehow I don't like to finish it faster....

anyway, about the neck, hell that area really annoy me when I start straight, but I'm pretty much managed to have BBS in that area (recently in the last 2 weeks) what I did is to have WTG first then ATG, I do stretch when I did ATG but I move my finger with my blade, so it's might like I just stretch small area then move to the next area when the blade is done...however one thing that I notice is that you don't overstretch, just like how the blade touch ur skin, you only need to touch the skin lightly with 2-3 fingers or so, and make sure the stretched area is quite flat or anyhow ease the blade movement.

in my case I use shorter blade ~2", normal length of blade didn't feel right for me, anyhow I also fond of spike point since I believe that's the only point that works best in difficult area, but my 2" MAB is in oblique point and I can tell you it even better for me.

just my 2 cent

Erick

You should never need pressure, ever. Also You need to always use a scything motion with the razor to cut the hairs closely, this is the way straight razors were designed to cut, head on isn't really correct (Check old manuals). You need to slice with the blade while moving the blade downward (on wtg for example) to use scything motion.

The scything did seem to help, but I did one pass with a disposable razor. That's because I didn't shave for a few days, and I don't like to beat up my straight razor with a few day's growth as it is so tough at that point.

I'll see how it feels after a week of just SR shaving using the scything motion on my neck

BTW - I don't know why people keep telling me to not use pressure. I don't think that I said that I ever used pressure. I even said that I don't use pressure. I don't use pressure! Thanks.

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Originally Posted by TyGuy

BTW - I don't know why people keep telling me to not use pressure. I don't think that I said that I ever used pressure. I even said that I don't use pressure. I don't use pressure! Thanks.

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History repeating. I used to say the same thing, and at about the same stage in the learning process, too. I was wrong.

I am a newbie and it takes me ages to shave at the moment and the day i shave without a touch up seems ages away, and like yourself need to do a lot of passess to get a decent shave but still need to touch up with a de.

There is no such thing as a XTG on the neck for me, but I do a scything motion in some places and a slant/slicing motion in a couple of others. I go slow and pay attention and it works for me. :tameshigiri:........ :D

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Originally Posted by TyGuy

BTW - I don't know why people keep telling me to not use pressure. I don't think that I said that I ever used pressure. I even said that I don't use pressure. I don't use pressure! Thanks.

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LOL - didn't you say something about pressure? I'm sure somebody here is using too much pressure!

Actually, I think it's pretty normal to go down the list of common issues when somebody says they have problems. We just got carried away.