need help on sharpening

Hi everyone, It's my first post on these forums!

Basically I'm just looking for some advice on getting a razor to be sharp enough to shave with, had a birthday earlier this month and one of the things friends got me was a straight razor except it has no brand name on it, and the grind was all wrong and dodgy, and I don't know what the metal is as there's no markings anywhere on it.

So I fixed the grind so now its at the angle where you can lay it flat on the stone to sharpen it so that the points of contact are the side of the spine and the cutting edge.(im using a combination stone and I don't know what the grits are, I think it's just as good as any $10 stone from the hardware store)

I don't have any other stones that are finer, so I moved onto sandpaper, 800 -> 1200 -> 2000 grits.

With those I am able to get an edge that shaves hair off my arm but not my face,

then I stropped for a long time(till my arm got tired) on my leather belt (I know I know I must sound so cheap by now) and now the razor can shave my face except it hurts because (I believe) it's not sharp enough and I have to apply a bit of pressure.

Basically all my knowledge on sharpening and stropping and everything razor related I got off the internet, forums like this and youtube videos.

So now you know my history I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. I need advice on whether I should have used higher grit stones like 4000 and 8000 before i moved to leather and do away with the sandpaper, or should I also get something with some abrasive paste like what they rub into balsa wood or the fabric side of strops and strop on that before stropping on leather? I also want to buy a new strop and I found one on an online store called ''Black Beauty'' which is Australian made, should I buy that? or should I buy a combination one where one side has abrasive paste and the other doesn't? What would be better for a learner.

Or should I also buy a proper straight razor. I know the one I'm using would probably not even be considered a real shaving straight razor by you guys but I figured if someone can sharpen an axe sharp enough to shave their face with then it should be possible to sharpen this straight of mine.

I want to feel confident that I can make this razor shave worthy before investing in a proper straight razor.

Thanks for your time I know I wrote a lot..

Yes. My God, yes. You need a higher grit than 2000 to shave off of! My typical progression is 1000 grit to set a bevel, 4000 to finish sharpening, 8000 for polish, 12000 for finish, and then strop. I should note, though, that the 12k isn't completely necessary--you can shave off an 8k.

EDIT: Oh, and I've heard of sandpaper working, but I've also heard they tend to give razors a rough edge. You'd be better off with a set of waterstones, glass shaptons, or a coticule. I'm personally using Norton Waterstones.

I'm also fairly new to this, so you may have someone else chime in with more advice...This is all my .02

Can you post a pic of the blade you're talking about? Do you know if it's a new production blade or a vintage one?

Your first shave with a straight should be with a razor honed by a professional. That will give you a benchmark to judge your own sharpening endeavors.

You should at least get through an 8k stone before trying to shave. The wiki has some great information regarding honing and what type of setup you should be looking at to do it yourself.

If you do take to straight razor shaving, you will undoubtedly purchase more razors and you'll definitely acquire more appropriate hones.

Being fairly new to the game, you will be much better off finding someone who can hone your razor for you, provided that it is a razor worth honing at all.

Once you have a shave-ready razor, you can keep it that way for a while with regular stropping, that will buy you some time to accumulate better equipment and start learning how to use and maintain a straight razor. You'll find many friendly people here who are always willing to help.

Thanks heaps everyone for your quick replies :)

guess I'll go get myself some proper stones :P

I don't believe this razor is anything vintage, just literally a no-name brand...

Also thanks for your offers to help me out with honing, but I'd really rather buy the stuff to maintain the razor myself and learn it myself with this razor I have before trying with a proper one. Once I get the equipment to put an edge on it and get it shave worthy I'm sure it won't be long before I buy a decent 'shave ready' one out of the classifieds you guys run, that way I'll be able to compare the feel of a professional honed razor to my own efforts.

Thanks heaps again!

It looks like the brand name Master. A new production, not vintage. Not the highest quality. I'm going only by how it LOOKS in the photos. Perhaps the Master brand has copied this design?

You find them time to time at flea markets and such with people that sell $5 knives.

But, the Master brand has it written on there, from what I have seen.

So, not saying that's what you have...just it looks like those that I have seen. But that's neither here nor there....

When it's 5 am and I'm posting I say random things that are irrelevant. For sure send this to a honemeister and have them evaluate and put a good edge on it for you. If it is a razor or metal that won't hold up, they will tell you that.

[QUOTE=a1boy;601856]
I want to feel confident that I can make this razor shave worthy before investing in a proper straight razor.QUOTE]

G'day & welcome to SRP

You sound like a keen DIY guy & I respect that but my suggestion is you get a shave ready razor "first"... Then you can compare your honing efforts to a known benchmark. At this point you have too many variables & doing it the other way round assumes you know what to do, how to do it & what the final result should look & feel like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by commiecat

Your first shave with a straight should be with a razor honed by a professional. That will give you a benchmark to judge your own sharpening endeavors.

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What he said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a1boy

Hi everyone, It's my first post on these forums!

Basically I'm just looking for some advice on getting a razor to be sharp enough to shave with, had a birthday earlier this month and one of the things friends got me was a straight razor except it has no brand name on it, and the grind was all wrong and dodgy, and I don't know what the metal is as there's no markings anywhere on it.

So I fixed the grind so now its at the angle where you can lay it flat on the stone to sharpen it so that the points of contact are the side of the spine and the cutting edge.(im using a combination stone and I don't know what the grits are, I think it's just as good as any $10 stone from the hardware store)

I don't have any other stones that are finer, so I moved onto sandpaper, 800 -> 1200 -> 2000 grits.

With those I am able to get an edge that shaves hair off my arm but not my face,

then I stropped for a long time(till my arm got tired) on my leather belt (I know I know I must sound so cheap by now) and now the razor can shave my face except it hurts because (I believe) it's not sharp enough and I have to apply a bit of pressure.

Basically all my knowledge on sharpening and stropping and everything razor related I got off the internet, forums like this and youtube videos.

So now you know my history I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. I need advice on whether I should have used higher grit stones like 4000 and 8000 before i moved to leather and do away with the sandpaper, or should I also get something with some abrasive paste like what they rub into balsa wood or the fabric side of strops and strop on that before stropping on leather? I also want to buy a new strop and I found one on an online store called ''Black Beauty'' which is Australian made, should I buy that? or should I buy a combination one where one side has abrasive paste and the other doesn't? What would be better for a learner.

Or should I also buy a proper straight razor. I know the one I'm using would probably not even be considered a real shaving straight razor by you guys but I figured if someone can sharpen an axe sharp enough to shave their face with then it should be possible to sharpen this straight of mine.

I want to feel confident that I can make this razor shave worthy before investing in a proper straight razor.

Thanks for your time I know I wrote a lot..

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Can you tell me why your friend gave you a razor for your birthday? I mean do you really want to shave with one?

Can you afford a set of quality hones and strop -look at the stuff the vendors here offer.

Ok well it seems to be majority consensus that I buy a properly sharpened one first so I'll make one my next purchase. I just don't see anything wrong with going the other direction and getting all the equipment needed to hone a razor to be shaveable first and then getting the razor that would be my first proper straight once I've learned a decent amount on the one that I don't care if I scratch and scuff here and there.

Also although I realise I could probly get away with just stropping to maintain the edge of a professionally honed razor for a long time. I feel like it's unsustainable to an extent because when it gets dull enough to need to be rehoned then I won't have the skill or equipment. We can assume that by the time stropping doesn't bring it back I will have collected a bunch of equipment, and by that order I'm able to get into actual shaving sooner, but I don't know why I'd just really rather learn the maintenance side first for some reason, It probably stems from my experience with pocket knives and how I see no point to buying an expensive ''from the factory sharp'' pocket knife when I don't possess the know how to maintain that sharpness, and the best way I found to learn was to practice with knives I didn't care about. That's the best explanation I can think of as to what angle I was coming from by trying to learn how to sharpen before I learned how to shave haha!

But sure any excuse to buy another razor is good enough for me!

Friends know I love knives haha! I probly mentioned that I wanted one at one stage. But yes I do really want to shave with one, apart from the initial expense it seems to beat disposables as far as I've read, I don't like the idea of all those plastic razors ending up in landfill.

Yeah I'll be looking around at the for sales that's for sure

Thanks all

There are some new production razors that have been found unable to attain/hold a shaving edge. Frankly, looking at the photos yours might be one of those, though it doesn't have any brandname on it. If so, there might nothing you can do to make it shave. You can dull it completely and practice stropping with it.

Kudos for trying for yourself, but if you really want to feel how a real razor feels like, get a proper one, professionally honed. Ebay is not an option. Check classifieds (buttons up top) and the various vendor ads. Some members also have their own websites to sell shave-ready razors. While you're at it, get proper strop, good cream(s), stypic pencil, and brush. Those are far more important than hones at this point.

Leave the hone stones until you know what to aim at and you've got a good measure of the sharpness of your razor. Also check the beginner guides etc.

You may well be able to sharpen knives & maybe your razor but will it be smooth enough to shave comfortably & how will you judge that ? If you compare to a disposable you will not have a good point of reference. An inexpensive shave ready razor will give you that benchmark to aim for.

This is always the same old story with you guys;)

If a new straight_er can beat his old method of shaving by a standard of smoothness/closeness and comfort then he is ahead, and the game is afoot.

Until that happens (s)he can know they are not yet there. That should be enough.

Because it does not matter what level the pro honed razor is finished at unless anyone or everyone chooses to adopt their methods.

I dont want a 30k hone and 2 types of pasted strop. So I have yet to compare my edges with any other honer. I really feel I do not need to know unless that person is willing to come over and keep my razors going.

In the same way it is perfectly okay if you guys want to know and compare and continue to be dissatisfied or be extremely proud that you can match the best of the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

You may well be able to sharpen knives & maybe your razor but will it be smooth enough to shave comfortably & how will you judge that ? If you compare to a disposable you will not have a good point of reference. An inexpensive shave ready razor will give you that benchmark to aim for.

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yeah I was just gonna compare to a disposable actually :P.
I was planning that would help me achieve the right technique to sharpen a razor, I mean if I can get it to be as good or better than a new disposable then I can't be doing too much wrong can I? And then when I buy a second pro honed razor I would see how much better I could aim for.

Also I was thinking if I got a shave-ready one off someone on the classifieds what if they're opinion of what is shave ready or not is very broad and at the lower end of what they consider 'ready' is only as good as a disposable?

Anyway that was just my train of thought, I'll still buy a pro-honed one soon as I can though!

Haha! I just looked up what a stypic pencil is for! ...I probly shouldn't laugh

Good points kevint but we all know you don't need a 30k hone & 2 pasted strops.
One good Oozuku is enough :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a1boy

yeah I was just gonna compare to a disposable actually :P.
I was planning that would help me achieve the right technique to sharpen a razor, I mean if I can get it to be as good or better than a new disposable then I can't be doing too much wrong can I? And then when I buy a second pro honed razor I would see how much better I could aim for.

Also I was thinking if I got a shave-ready one off someone on the classifieds what if they're opinion of what is shave ready or not is very broad and at the lower end of what they consider 'ready' is only as good as a disposable?

Anyway that was just my train of thought, I'll still buy a pro-honed one soon as I can though!

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All valid points. "Shave ready" can be a a subjective term. To quote Nike
" Just do it"

Learning to hone can take some time. I JUST started learning. I've been straight shaving for several months. I've had edges from about 7-10 different people and everyone's is different. I know what I do like though. So, as I hone, I try to reach that level.

But, learning to use the straight razor in itself can be challenging enough at first. Perhaps overwhelming. Wet shaving as a whole is entirely different than what you are likely used to.

I was on the Classifieds yesterday and WOW, there are some remarkable deals to be had there. PLENTY in the below $50 range.

Don't think of it as $50 for a razor.

Think of a 4 pack of Gil. Fusion costs $18.69 + tax. Each blade lasts on average of 3 shaves. 12 shaves ~ $20. Or...a lifetime of shaves for $50. Even if that straight razor lasts you a year, 6 months, 3 months even....you are still ahead.

Also, if you were to purchase what you needed to hone your razor, it is very likely your razor won't hone or keep an edge. So that would create a ton of frustration.

Let us know what you wind up getting and doing. Look forward to the journey!

Welcome to SRP,

See, the problem is that you won't have a reference point until you have a really sharp edge. Your current razor is probably never going to get there, even if you have the best stones and best technique and spend many hours. It just looks like one of these razors with very poor metal on it.
There is a huge difference between a razor sharp edge and just sharp edge. The thickness of the edge should be something like 30 microns so you need steel that is capable of supporting that.
An ugly looking razor that was made 100 years ago will probably be just fine and achieve something most of these new ebay razors will never be capable of.
Then it does take some experience to put such a delicate edge on a piece of steel. A modern cartridge or DE blade may look cheap but they are high quality steel sharpened to the necessary level and coated with various compounds to further reduce cutting friction. You have to get there with a series of hones and that sounds easier than it's done.

Your best bet for inexpensive razor is indeed the classifieds. Yes it's possible that it may not have the ultimate edge that that razor is capable of having, but if you choose carefully the person you're buying for you can be quite certain that it will be very good. Most people actually test how the razors perform before selling them and knowing that somebody else has been able to successfully shave with that razor is pretty much the closest assurance you can get that the edge is quite reasonably good.
Of course, you'll have to learn to hone it yourself, but keep in mind that the hardest part of honing a razor is setting the bevel correctly. Just maintaining a razor sharp is far easier than getting it there in the first place.

So, resist the urge to shop by lowest price, that usually ends up the most expensive way, since low price usually means cutting corners. If you think a bit about the economics you'll figure out how it works. I'd recommend to get the highest quality edge you can afford and sacrifice cosmetics if you need to keep the cost down.

Have fun.

Yeah I understand now, I was assuming that a shaving edge was attainable on this razor but if the metal is too inferior then the only remedy is to buy a proper one.

I don't mind spending ~$75 for a first razor, that would buy a proper brand with decent blade metal won't it? That is if we're talking second hand and ugliness is no problem..

Thanks for the input everyone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a1boy

Yeah I understand now, I was assuming that a shaving edge was attainable on this razor but if the metal is too inferior then the only remedy is to buy a proper one.

I don't mind spending ~$75 for a first razor, that would buy a proper brand with decent blade metal won't it? That is if we're talking second hand and ugliness is no problem..

Thanks for the input everyone

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Yes, $75 is enough to buy a decent razor. If you are frugal and handy, $75 could go a long way toward a complete setup, without hones. But hones can be added over time. You could probably fit a barber hone into an initial $75 razor budget.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a1boy

Yeah I understand now, I was assuming that a shaving edge was attainable on this razor but if the metal is too inferior then the only remedy is to buy a proper one.

I don't mind spending ~$75 for a first razor, that would buy a proper brand with decent blade metal won't it? That is if we're talking second hand and ugliness is no problem..

Thanks for the input everyone

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You'll see some good un's for even less in the classifieds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a1boy

Yeah I understand now, I was assuming that a shaving edge was attainable on this razor but if the metal is too inferior then the only remedy is to buy a proper one.

I don't mind spending ~$75 for a first razor, that would buy a proper brand with decent blade metal won't it? That is if we're talking second hand and ugliness is no problem..

Thanks for the input everyone

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Have you looked at the Classifieds here? At the top of the screen right under the logo. Click on Classifieds. Great, great place to start. Yes, $75 will buy you a very nice razor. You can spend less than that too.

For shipping + about $20 you can get it honed by someone that understands
and knows razors. If it can be sharpened they can and more importantly they
can tell you if it is worth investing more....

The least expensive honing solution I know of is abrasive film
from Woodcraft. Honing Film Assort Pack - 3 Pieces
it contains 15 micron, 5 micron and 0.3 micron abrasive
film. Glue it to something very flat and stable that is resistant
to water. I have some pieces of tempered glass...
You could use a cut bit of granite or marble tile or even
scrap counter top drop. I can get a decent strop ready
precision edge from these films.

Good for one or two razors...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a1boy

Ok well it seems to be majority consensus that I buy a properly sharpened one first so I'll make one my next purchase. I just don't see anything wrong with going the other direction and getting all the equipment needed to hone a razor to be shaveable first and then getting the razor that would be my first proper straight once I've learned a decent amount on the one that I don't care if I scratch and scuff here and there.

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We say this because you need to know how a real straight razor should shave first. It's not just "well it's sharp enough to cut hair" -- it's more about comfort and smoothness. Imperfections are probably acceptable on most normal edges (e.g. kitchen cutlery) but it's a different story when you're using it on your face.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a1boy

Also although I realise I could probly get away with just stropping to maintain the edge of a professionally honed razor for a long time. I feel like it's unsustainable to an extent because when it gets dull enough to need to be rehoned then I won't have the skill or equipment. We can assume that by the time stropping doesn't bring it back I will have collected a bunch of equipment, and by that order I'm able to get into actual shaving sooner, but I don't know why I'd just really rather learn the maintenance side first for some reason, It probably stems from my experience with pocket knives and how I see no point to buying an expensive ''from the factory sharp'' pocket knife when I don't possess the know how to maintain that sharpness, and the best way I found to learn was to practice with knives I didn't care about. That's the best explanation I can think of as to what angle I was coming from by trying to learn how to sharpen before I learned how to shave haha!

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Honestly, I'm still suspicious about the razor you posted pictures of. I'm with rickboone in thinking that's a razor probably on our list of razors to avoid. No point in spending time and money on that.

Get a proper razor as you've said you would, see how it feels, then get some inexpensive vintage razors if you'd like to learn how to hone and upkeep them.

EDIT: Whoops, I totally missed that there were two more pages of posts.