2 razors shave ready, a coincidence, or are they?

Hi all,

All the time you read here on the forums things like "get your razor honed first", "they are never shave ready out of the box" etcetera etcetera.

Now, I have 2 razors, a Dovo 5/8 silversteel hollow ground with ebony scales, and a Thiers Issard Silverwing 5/8 with ramshorn scales.

I'm shaving with both and just did my 10th shave. Both of them were purchased without any honing done on them by the sellers (2 different stores).

I shaved pretty good with them, but I don't have a reference point yet of "bad" versus "good" when it comes to shaving and razor sharpness. But in my experience, they remove hair, they can cut me pretty badly if I'm not careful, the cuts they produce are very clean (meaning sharp metal) but I have a gut feeling they could be sharper.

The Dovo did not and does not pass a hanging hair test, the TI did the first time out of the box, haven't checked it after that.

Stropping goes well and the edges look good under my triplet (magnifier) at 20x.

Now, am I just lucky that they can shave? Or are they not shave ready and am I just happy with a bad shave? Am I settling at the moment, should I have a much better shaving experience?

I would appreciate some perspectives on this.

thanks guys!

Jojingo

Even dull razors will cut you very easily and will shave to a certain level.
You are not going to know if they are shave ready until you get some experience with a finished honed razor as comparison. I'm not saying the ones you have are not, just that right now you have nothing to compare them to.

If you are getting shaves right now, great. Are they as comfortable as they could be? Maybe yes, maybe no. If you sent out one of them for honing and got it back and compared with the other you would have a base for comparison.

Marc

Hi,

I think you can take the "cuts flesh easily" part out of the equation. That is pretty much a given. So the question is, how comfortably does it cut your beard? If you previously shaved with a DE, compare it to that.

You did not say where you aquired the razors, but are you sure that they did not get a professional hone prior to shipping?

The HHT is not a good way to tell shave readiness. All the tests that you hear about here (HHT, TNT, TPT etc...) are used to assess how an edge is progressing during the honing process.

The HHT is very misleading. To drag out my favourite example :D, when I first got my Edelweisse it had been honed by Lynn, so I knew full well it was shave ready. It passed the HHT for me about 60% of the time, for my dad every time and a mate of mine couldnt get it to work at all. One razor, three results, but the shave was great..!

The most important question is does it shave cleanly, with no pulling or anything, and leave smooth skin behind? If the shave is good, then its shave ready. If it pulls or doesnt remove hair cleanly, or at all, then it may need to be honed.

Another common question is people asking if a razor needs to be honed because the shaves arent as good as their DE or M3 or something. If you've bought the razor from someone who is a known honemeister (thereby eliminating doubt as to the shave readiness), and the shaves are bad, the chances are its technique, poor lather and pre shave prep or the edge has been damaged by poor stropping technique, or a combination of the three.

The first question to ask is, did the razor come from a vendor who is known to sell shave ready razors? If the answer is no, and you have doubts about the edge, its worth the $20 sending it off to be honed, just to eliminate that question. If the answer is yes however, then focus on the other areas.

After that, the questions to ask yourself are these:

- Am I happy with my lathering and pre shave prep? Is my lather slick and cushioning?
- Am I happy with my stropping? Am I making good contact with the whole edge, not applying too much pressure and am I rolling the razor over correctly?
- Is my shaving technique good? Are my angles 30 degrees and under, and am I keeping my pressure light and using the correct skin stretching?

If the honest answer to all these questions is yes, then I'd say send the razor out to be honed by a pro. But if you know that your lathering needs work, for example, then I'd focus on that before sending the razor out.

Good luck and keep us posted!

When I first got into shaving with the straights after a 25 year hiatus I bought a Puma 90 High Class and a C-Mon HF on ebay. Both of these were in very nice condition and were not sold as shave ready. I began shaving with them and they shaved albeit somewhat uncomfortably. I already had a microscope that I use in my vocation but until doing further reading on the forums it had never occurred to me to examine the edges with it.

Once I did I found that there were micro chips that could not be seen with the naked eye. My first sure enough shave ready razor was a dubl duck goldedge honed by a honemeister and it was a world of difference. So IME a razor may shave if it isn't butter knife dull but a pro honing will improve the shave substantially. OTOH, your razors may be adequate as is. :shrug:

the razors that are sold by the koordenwinkel aren't honed before are send.
I went to the store myself for my first razor and i asked i they should be honed an the guy in de shop said it wasn't needed.
I just did a couple of passes on a pasted strop an I can shave with is decently

cheers
stijn

How to explain it further,,,

There is a difference between "Razor Sharp" and "Shave Ready"

There are huge differences in people beards and faces...you might be blessed with the tuff skin / easy beard face and you can shave with about anything...
Myself I have a fairly easy beard but a very sensitive face so I don't have as bad as some people do...

I have done experiments all the way down to shaving off a 1k Shapton stone, the razors get Sharp enough to shave at very low grits BUT they are not very Smoooooooooth... Best advice is get one of the two done and see what happens...

Shave ready is a relative term.

Just when I think I have my razors as sharp as they can be, I learn something new or add a new stone or strop or paste to the tool box and *wham* I realize that what I thought was sharp isn't anymore.

Being obsessive-compulsive means never having to settle for good enough.

Semper circa,
LG Roy

That's why it's good to have more than one razor. When you use the same razor all the time and it starts to deteriorate it's not always a sudden thing. Often times it happens so slowly and gradually you don't realize it until it gets really bad. When you switch razors then you realize.

My feeling is the way you know if a razor is shave ready is when you use it forgetting about actual shave quality the razor should glide down your face with no effort and little sensation other than what the grind might provide. Especially for me if it does than on my chin I know it's where it should be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stubear

The HHT is not a good way to tell shave readiness. All the tests that you hear about here (HHT, TNT, TPT etc...) are used to assess how an edge is progressing during the honing process.

The HHT is very misleading. To drag out my favourite example :D, when I first got my Edelweisse it had been honed by Lynn, so I knew full well it was shave ready. It passed the HHT for me about 60% of the time, for my dad every time and a mate of mine couldnt get it to work at all. One razor, three results, but the shave was great..!

The most important question is does it shave cleanly, with no pulling or anything, and leave smooth skin behind? If the shave is good, then its shave ready. If it pulls or doesnt remove hair cleanly, or at all, then it may need to be honed.

Another common question is people asking if a razor needs to be honed because the shaves arent as good as their DE or M3 or something. If you've bought the razor from someone who is a known honemeister (thereby eliminating doubt as to the shave readiness), and the shaves are bad, the chances are its technique, poor lather and pre shave prep or the edge has been damaged by poor stropping technique, or a combination of the three.

The first question to ask is, did the razor come from a vendor who is known to sell shave ready razors? If the answer is no, and you have doubts about the edge, its worth the $20 sending it off to be honed, just to eliminate that question. If the answer is yes however, then focus on the other areas.

After that, the questions to ask yourself are these:

- Am I happy with my lathering and pre shave prep? Is my lather slick and cushioning?
- Am I happy with my stropping? Am I making good contact with the whole edge, not applying too much pressure and am I rolling the razor over correctly?
- Is my shaving technique good? Are my angles 30 degrees and under, and am I keeping my pressure light and using the correct skin stretching?

If the honest answer to all these questions is yes, then I'd say send the razor out to be honed by a pro. But if you know that your lathering needs work, for example, then I'd focus on that before sending the razor out.

Good luck and keep us posted!

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Thanks Stu,
Good info on the HHT. I already read something along the lines of people not passing the HHT or passing the HHT and having opposite expectations after that (not passing: great shave, passing: bad shave and al other variants there are :)) I'm actually quite happy with the shaves but just have a 'gut feeling' about the sharpness

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

OTOH, your razors may be adequate as is. :shrug:

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lol, thanks for trying to answer the impossible question. And ending up with a :shrug: as I am

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geruchtemoaker

the razors that are sold by the koordenwinkel aren't honed before are send.
I went to the store myself for my first razor and i asked i they should be honed an the guy in de shop said it wasn't needed.
I just did a couple of passes on a pasted strop an I can shave with is decently

cheers
stijn

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Thanks Stijn, bought my Dovo from koordenwinkel and had the same experience. So Yes, I'm sure both my razors were not honed before I got them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

How to explain it further,,,

There is a difference between "Razor Sharp" and "Shave Ready"

There are huge differences in people beards and faces...you might be blessed with the tuff skin / easy beard face and you can shave with about anything...
Myself I have a fairly easy beard but a very sensitive face so I don't have as bad as some people do...

I have done experiments all the way down to shaving off a 1k Shapton stone, the razors get Sharp enough to shave at very low grits BUT they are not very Smoooooooooth... Best advice is get one of the two done and see what happens...

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I guess that's a good advice. Maybe I'll just lay the dovo on my stones (naniwa's) myself. I'm still wondering if I should do a beaten up razor first....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Library Guy

*wham* I realize that what I thought was sharp isn't anymore.

Being obsessive-compulsive means never having to settle for good enough.

Semper circa,
LG Roy

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THat's why I'm asking ;)
I'm in the same place as you hehe


thanks for all the respones so far all of you :y

Hi Jojingo,
Just my twopence worth-IMHO-even professionally honed razors can still give bad shaves if they are not being handled by an experienced shaver.
It takes time and experience to get a good shave,even with a sharp razor.
To be safe,though and for a decent reference point,I agree it would be better to verify the sharpness of your blade by getting it honed.
regards

Noggs :)

jojingo,

I doubt that it is a coincidence that both of your razors shaved ok right out of the box. That has been my experience as well.

Like the other fellows wrote, "shave ready" is somewhat subjective. The more experienced people probably have much higher standards than most, and the honing skills to match.

It might be fun for you to send out one of your razors to an expert honer for a "Cadillac" quality edge.

Enjoy!

Jeff