Take Resposiblity

I just have to rant for a second. When I first started to use a straight my wife bought me one from AOS and I sent it to be sharpened as recommended on this site. My experience was less than optional to say the least my technique and prep was horrible. I posted questions and had them answered very quickly and accurately on what I might try to fix the problems.
Lately on this site when a person new to straights has a problem they do not seem to realize that THEY are the problem, and there is a learning curve it doesn't come overnight. They seem to blame the razor not being sharp enough even though it was honed by one of the many pros on this site. I find it funny even that Lynn is not immune from newbies suggesting that maybe he had a razor fall through the cracks. I do not have my razors sharpened by Lynn as of yet but will be sending my DD's to him next time they need it.

So how about if you are new to this great way of shaving try not to blame the razor when as a newbie 99.9% of the time it is YOU who are the problem not the razor. Take some personal responsibility for your actions and follow the WIKI and the videos provided there. Only shave your sideburns until you can do it without irritation then add more of your face to the shave. My 21 year old son has started with straights and he has followed the WIKI videos and is not having a problem so far. He has been shaving the right side of his face for two weeks now and asked this morning if I thought he could add his chin in next or the left side of his face. I recommended he add the left side of the face since it is the mirror of his right. That and the chin was the hardest part for me to learn.

Anyway that's my two cents and I'm out

As a noob myself I may get upset at a certain razor, but I agree with you every problem I've had has been my fault. Although I must say that occasionally this could be sought attention. As my blackberry has small buttons I won't go into details, but a psych prof I was talking to once related it to me.

Good post, I believe you are right, for the most part.
I experienced the stuff you describe myself 8 months ago.
However, I think you are a bit harsh on the newer ones amongst us.
Sure, reading the wiki, seeing the various videos, is all good advice. But you know what? it does not fullfill all the needs of all newcomers.
There is a difference between seeing, reading and feeling it.
I myself couldnt for the life of me believe that my razor, honed by Lynn, was sharp enough. I mistakenly compared it to my feather artist club, and IT did not feel as sharp as that at all.
As you will know, I was wrong, the razor was perfectly fine, I Just needed to learn proper techniques. I have since had several razors honed by Lynn and his Honemeister title is spot on:)
My point is, being new to this and eager to learn, the frustration of not obtaining a great shave sometimes needs to be vented. And luckily one can be told what to do, and what to expect right here on SRP!
What I take away from your post is that new straight shavers should do as much homework as possible, read the wiki and watch the many good videos available. I couldn't agree more.

I am just weighing in with a couple of thoughts. I don't mean to comment in reaction to the OP, but more as general thoughts that I believe apply to this topic.


1. We ALWAYS want people to do their homework... and most would benefit from doing more homework when starting a new aspect of SR shaving (be it beginning, starting with restoration, honing, etc.). Many questions are asked that would be quickly answered with a stroll through the wiki, or by searching the forums.

2. We never want to discourage people from asking questions. This is a great site, with the most knowledgeable and helpful group you'll find anywhere. If you can't get your head around something... feel free to post, or send someone a PM asking direct questions. I have benefited greatly by sending PMs to some of the giants of knowledge here.

3. Let it be known that the pro honemeisters will not let something slip through the cracks... I can say this because every honemeister I know gives the razors they work on some kind of shave test before ever sending it back. They know that you are trusting your face to them, and they reverence that trust. if you get a razor honed by one of the fellas and it isn't performing, rest assured that it is a technique thing, or you've messed with the edge by poor stropping etc.

Those are the thoughts I had while reading this post... FWIW :D

Dave

+1, I totally agree with Dave. I agree, people should do their homework, and anyone who wants to get the best out of their hobby should do the same, but I would hate anyone to feel like they cant ask questions.

Alot of the joy I get from this place is not what I get out of it, but helping others enjoy something I love. I love seeing friendships forged, jokes made and all the banter and fun that we have. Thats the best bit..! :)

So if you have a question, please ask it..!

Straight razor shaving is not painting by numbers. It is not making instant brownies in the microwave. The skills cannot be downloaded to your iPod. There is not app for practice; no cheat code for experience; no wiki for dexterity.

I agree that they should do their homework and that there is nothing like practice, practice, practice. but when you spend good money to start this and shaving should be dirt simple(it is with the dumbed down plastic gadgetry) I cant blame a guy for thinking that it is something other than himself, it was so easy before. They do not understand the many variables as well as the skill sets involved. That is why day in and day out, everyday, the good members of this forum take the time to walk the new guy through it, we have all been there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stubear

+1, I totally agree with Dave. I agree, people should do their homework, and anyone who wants to get the best out of their hobby should do the same, but I would hate anyone to feel like they cant ask questions.

Alot of the joy I get from this place is not what I get out of it, but helping others enjoy something I love. I love seeing friendships forged, jokes made and all the banter and fun that we have. Thats the best bit..! :)

So if you have a question, please ask it..!

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I whole heartily agree on asking questions my post wasnt meant as a flame on questions. The post was meant to point out that lately it seems people seem to blame the equipment i.e. razor rather than poor technique. I have learned sooo much from the more knowledgeable members here. Now if someone had purchased a razor off of eBay that hadnt been properly honed then yes it would be the razor, but when a razor is purchased here or SRD and sold as shave ready I would tend to believe it is the person not the razor.

I think thats a symptom of, as N2S says, people thinking "Its shaving, how hard can it be?" and then thinking it must be the kit when they dont get the results they were expecting.

Its like learning any new skill: It takes practice, but its great fun..! :)

+1 on the thoughts offered in the previous posts. What sticks in my craw, and thankfully it doesn't happen very often, is when a newcomer to the straight razor scene asks for help/advice here, which is offered by numerous SRP members. Then they proceed to either get into an online tete a' tete with those who offered the advice or decide to disregard it. Oh well, it takes all kinds to make a world--even a virtual world.

My own thoughts on this topic are that I beleive that many straight razor newcomers set their expectations way too high. Tey expect their expertly honed Dovo, TI, Wade & Butcher, etc. to remove all the whiskers from their face in one pass.

Here, I think it is important to remember that straight razor shaving is similar to de razor shaving. The goal is not the removal of every whisker on the first pass of the razor, but beard reduction until you have achieved a level of closeness/smoothness that suits your tastes. That's the way I've approached straight razor shaving. As a result, I've never been truly disapointed with a shave. Properly prepared instruments and a properly prepared face, plus good blade handling technique that goes WTG and XTG ought to result in an aceptable shave imho. If one wants to go the extra route, then try ATG for a really close shave or to handle those real problem areas of one's face.

Extremely timely and to the point post Dllandry

All of previous posters had very valuable points to be made. I cannot speak for all newbies out there, for when I started out str8 shaving a few months back, I did extensive research about this topic before jumping in (probably for a good 3-4 months...even reading this and other forum threads).

However, no matter how much you read about a topic, it's only theoretical knowledge unless you put what you learn into practice. I knew that I had to bring all the said advice to bear fruit on my face (so to speak :)). Of course, among the excuses were; blade was not sharp enough, skin was irritated after each shave, the creme is not good enough, etc, etc...But, I knew that based on what I read (experts and newbies), it will take some time for MY technique to come to a point where all variables click together. I knew if wasn't the razor...it was either prep, lather, angle, pressure...you name it. And the buck stops at MY feet (the user). At the end of the day, I had to pull that knowledge and work it into perfecting the technique. No one (not Lynn, Dylan, Jimmy or others) but ME.

Most newbies probably take this for granted and that, IMO, is why the razor, the honemeister, or someone else gets blamed for it. Time will teach all newbies (who stick around long enough) the art of humility. We learn that there's NO SUBSTITUTE for "in the field" experience....and the best way to learn is to make mistakes.

I would like to express my sincerest gratitude to Lynn and all other senior and junior members (too many to name here) for your support during my steep learning (still in it) phase and who have made this journey a valuable and enjoyable experience for me. Thank you

I'm a pretty experienced shaver and even I find the process challenging, still.

Well, I think that SRP does a fantastic service in reducing the learning curve. At the same time, it appears that many of us (you know who you are) came to SRP with their own history of trials and errors. What newer members receive here is often the result of a shared unspoken acceptance of that individual mastery. When there is talk of the great shave, or a great shaver, or (help us) a great hone, there is a tendency to believe the attributes reside in the object. (This is nothing new, it's mentioned frequently in the hone forums...) But I would add that if one has no experience of personal skill mastery, if everything else in one's life has (at least consciously) been merely a transaction, then only the rules of commerce and consumption apply.
In my own case, if I had remained faithful to my DE (my first and only razor for a decade) and not spent years experimenting with everything else on the market, I would probably never have taken up straights. The promises of industry shaving implements never materialized for me, leaving me receptive to alternatives.
The difference is that my grandfather's razors didn't come with a promise. As others have said, it was all my fault.
SRP has made all of this much easier, but I didn't start with an expectation, only a goal. I think that if someone spends a good deal of money on a tool, they expect that tool to deliver. If they are not familiar with tools, but only commodities, then they may be tempted to find redress for lousy performance. Unfortunate, but, in this case, perhaps a consequence of SRP's members successes. I find the archives to be exceptional reading in regards to this issue.:)
A carpenter and his tools...

regards,
Torolf

It's just a sign of the times. People have little patience for things. When they want something they want it now. The idea of having to actually learn something that takes considerable time and effort is alien to most in this world.

So the blame game is just a part of this. So the razor I got which should work from day one just ain't giving me the result I want. Dumb razor.

Eventually people either wise up or go back to whatever method they were using.

That's why, I guess we're all different than the mainstream.

I think it's just different people have different approach, and the ones that are least inclined to look at the variable they can control (themselves) are going to pay the price, or just give up.
The razors most certainly can be the problem, I've seen plenty of razors that people were attempting to shave with, with dull and serrated edges. Often they have been honed proclaimed 'shave-ready' and 'excellent shavers' by a big mouthed 'experts' with negligible honing practice. But even in that case big part of the problem is the new shaver not doing their homework, and not taking advantage of the resources we provide.
So, all we can do is continue to provide good information and help, and new people will be just as successful as they are smart to make use of them.

I agree that we can be too quick to blame everything but ourselves. But you have to remember that it is a natural thing to do so. What seems a no-brainer for the more experienced person can be a real roadblock for new people.

Often the best way to take responsibility is to be completely honest about what you have or have not done, and ask for help. That is why we are here.

James.

Thanks Dllandry, I was considering a post similar to yours but have postponed it because I didn't want to sound insensitive. SRP is filled with some of the most patient and helpful folks here and we, well I, walk a fine line between having to post a dozen 'it's not the razor, it's your technique' posts every month. So many times, I've really wanted to post one of those...'I JUST answered that question two days ago, scroll down a page or two or heck, use the search to figure that one out' sorts of responses. However, let's be honest, when Lynn sent my first Dovo, I felt the same way...this isn't sharp! Instead of posting, I gave it a couple more shaves and the blade magically got better. Now, I don't profess to know everything about shaving with a straight...shoot, lot's of guys here like Gugi, Lynn, and Pirate4 will forget more than I will likely ever know on the subject and I'm sure that they get sick of me posting on my various different honing situations that I run across.

My solution is to get rid of the 'welcome' sticky and let the new guys find the 'member introductions' section to introduce themselves and replace it with a 'before posting about the sharpness of your blade' type of sticky. I don't think this will dissuade folks from posting their sharpness concerns, but it would be filled with information easily linkable so we don't have to keep typing the obligatory, 'it's either your technique or prep' responses.

I would rather answer questions all day than to get rid of the"welcome". all those stickies to go through, the next step would be to make them "press one for Engrish."! I am not trying to knock your idea, trust me, I feel the frustration, but my primary concern is welcoming the novice to our world with a cyber handshake and a hello rather than telling them to "go look it up for yourself." type of response.

I agree with the OP, but at the same time there are plenty of people who buy crappy razors, or even good razors that need sharpening, and when they have a hard time with shaving the equipment is going to be a large part of the problem, compounded by their lack of skill of course.

Now if someone gets a razor honed by a reputable source and is having problems, then yeah, they need to check their technique. I do think its absurd when someone gets a razor honed by Lynn, has their first shave which turns out to be less than perfect, and then start blaming Lynn.

I'd also like to add that in the cases I've seen, Lynn has been an absolute gentlemen about it and has offered to rehone for free. This has given me even more respect for the man and his business.

Good thread!
My very first straight shave is still very fresh in my mind... fresh enough to make me feel a little embarrassed because I did exactly that: blamed the razor. A month spent with a Kai SE, and my first vintage honed by a pro.. completely different beasts, I really did not think that my straight was sharp. I didn't blame anything, though, I asked if it could be... and of course, like every n00b, I learned that it really was sharp. Doesn't make me a dummy, nor show that I'm no good with tools (Lord knows that ain't true) but it does have it's own learning curve, just like every tool you've never used before.

My thought is that a little humility goes a long ways; ask before accusing.