Stropping feels like its going to get expensive

So this afternoon I just did my second straight razor shave. That part went okay, a couple of tiny nicks on my face, but no big deal.

But stropping is turning out to be way harder than I anticipated. I have a SRD strop, and having stropped twice now I am in need of a new leather piece. I have nicked it at least a half a dozen times.

I really have a problem keeping my hand steady when flipping the razor over, and I end up moving it the wrong way when I fist place the razor against the strop.

I also have a very inconsistent stroke, which isn't terribly surprising I guess, since I've been doing it for all of 48 hours, but it is frustrating.

I've read the wiki and watched all the stropping videos I could find, but it looks like I am going to have a pretty long learning curve on this one.

How many strops did you guys go through while learning to do it proficiently?

Everyone nicks their strop now and again. If I bought a strop for every time I nicked one I would be neck deep in strops and stone broke.

Lets see some pictures so that we may advise you.

Don't worry too much about the nicks. As JMS notes, every strop is going to get a few. As long as they are not gouges in the leather you can sand them out with some fine sandpaper.

As for stropping...Try practicing your technique with a butter knife or some other non-sharp knife from your kitchen. That should help you learn/develop the feel for proper stropping technique.

I have a total of 10 nicks on my first strop, none overly detrimental to the razor or the strop. I bought that strop about 15 years ago now. My advice is to take it real slow, practise stropping like your practicing Tai Chi. Once you have the flow of movements starting to take hold in your memory and muscles, slowly build up the speed.
When I started I had nothing to learn from, no You-Tube, no SRP, no old barbers. All I had was the memory of some old black and white cowboy movie barbers stropping (Not the best example of correct technique). From that I was able to take it slowly (after intially going flat out with bugger all tension on the strop) and learn using a bit of common sense and observation of the causes of a couple of nicks when I got over confident.


Mick

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JMS

Lets see some pictures so that we may advise you.

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I suppose I should have thought of that one. Here you go!

http://funklab.smugmug.com/Other/201...3_Pg5jX-XL.jpg

http://funklab.smugmug.com/Other/201...6_rvAcp-X2.jpg

Sorry about the poor quality of my pictures. My camera does not do very well up close.

Put the spine down first then start moving just before the edge contacts the strop.
Start the flip well before you reach the end of the strop & change direction as the edge begins to land. You should be able to practice that slowly without any hesitation cuts.

I'm with MickR on this one: take it slow and easy.
The "butterknife" idea is good, too.

May I suggest:
1) position the razor on the strop, making sure that
the edge is in full contact
2) make the stroke, using very light pressure on the
edge....and STOP
3) flip the razor over, and repeat #1...STOP again
4) the idea is, don't move the razor until it is
properly positioned...then do the stroke.

The stroke itself can be fairly rapid, as long as even,
light pressure is maintained. Just make a conscious
effort to STOP at the end of the stroke, before
flipping. Don't move until the position is "good".

Good luck. And BTW, I trashed my first strop, too,
so don't feel too bad.

I like Onimaru55's idea, too.

Either way, it takes concentration and practice....
lots of practice.

I'm still new at this and have a few nicks to prove it. The problem I have is that when I stop at the end to flip it over, I tend to put the brakes on too hard and pull the razor back just a hair. I had to slow the whole process down and really concentrate. It is getting easier each day. I can talk to the wife as I shave, but must have complete silence when stropping. Take your time and you will get it.

I also found stropping much harder than it looks. after one week my strop was just mangled to bits. I fixed it but I think its beyond repair now since some of the gouges took chunks off the edge when i tried to repair it.

anyway I figure its better to hack the strop to pieces rather than my face

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Put the spine down first then start moving just before the edge contacts the strop.
Start the flip well before you reach the end of the strop & change direction as the edge begins to land. You should be able to practice that slowly without any hesitation cuts.

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The worst cuts that I have were mostly from flipping the razor over. I came to a complete stop, but when I flipped the razor over, it cut into the material. I was probably moving it a bit without knowing.

I think I am going to try and practice with a butter knife like somebody suggested.

I'm relatively new at this too.

What I've learned is to use the lightest possible stroke. Let the blade glide over the surface: Don't push down at all. (The same applies to steeling a knife: let the blade "ride".) The object is not to abrade, it's to straighten a very delicate edge.

When you hit the end of the stroke, flip over using the shank of the razor, don't hold the scales at all. The fact that the scales move can make the flip erratic.

If you're cutting the strop, you are probably hesitating just a little on the flip. It should be a smooth action. Do it first in slow motion, and gradually increase the speed. Like all physical motions, you need to let your body learn the motion, not use your mind to control the details. Try for smooth action, almost as if your mind drifts.

Good luck!

Taking it slowly is the best advice. Practicing with a butter knife may work but it's not exactly a razor. You might consider picking up a very cheap blade such as one of the Pakistan razors for $4.00 or $5.00 on eBay and then dull the hell out of it with sandpaper. You might even put electrical tape on the edge and practice with that. As for the nicks in the strop, I've had some luck with contact cement. Just be careful to get it only on the areas you want to stick together. Good luck.

I had the same experience with learning to strop and reading this thread it sounds universal. I think it's just one of those things that comes with practice. After about a month and several nicks in the strop I had it down. I sanded the nicks down and oiled the strop with olive oil. It's not as good as new but it works.

No Worries

Mine has some nice in it as well and I did get better, and still getting. I have not fixed mine yet, no money to get the stuff needed, so I am using only the good part which is fortunately most of it.

I was making my cuts when turning it over to strop the other side and a few time I actually turned it the wrong way and sliced right into the leather, it looked bad. The razor still shaves with no problem but I am sure I will have to get it honed sooner becasue of this.

Things happen and we learn, it gets better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Put the spine down first then start moving just before the edge contacts the strop.
Start the flip well before you reach the end of the strop & change direction as the edge begins to land. You should be able to practice that slowly without any hesitation cuts.

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Took the words right out of my mouth mate.
Start moving then lay the edge down, lift the edge up before finishing moving. Cant go wrong.

What a brilliant idea ;)

funklab,

In my case, two (2) strops :)

I have still have (and use) my first named 'ScarFace'.

If the reverse side of your strop is usable, I would suggest trying that for the practice. If the reverse is a little rough, you can smooth it with some good quality silicon carbide paper (320/400/600 grit), though it has to be good quality as you don't want any grits embedding themselves in the
leather !!

You can also use the 600 grit carbide paper to smooth out some of the existing nicks on your strop.

This video has been the most use to me for stropping instruction, and is by our very own hi_bud_gl (Sham)

YouTube - straight razor stropping

Good luck !

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by funklab

The worst cuts that I have were mostly from flipping the razor over. I came to a complete stop, but when I flipped the razor over, it cut into the material. I was probably moving it a bit without knowing.

I think I am going to try and practice with a butter knife like somebody suggested.

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Coming to a complete stop is a recipe for disaster. If the edge is always following the spine you can't cut the strop. It's like stropping Tai Chi, constantly flowing :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Coming to a complete stop is a recipe for disaster. If the edge is always following the spine you can't cut the strop. It's like shaving Tai Chi, constantly flowing :)

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You mean all this time I knew tai chi? :):)

JMS, I see you as the Lao-Tsu of the strop :D

And that's far better than taking the art of Sun-Tsu to the strop, I'm sure! :)


Mick

The nicks on your strop, pictured, are no big deal. This is likely a case of your fear causing greater problems. Just relax and keep the blade moving. All you need to do is practice turning the razor at the correct moment in time. That moment is before you get to the end of the stroke. Then land the edge of the razor on the strop after the razor begins moving in the opposite direction.

Stated another way, the razor only touches down on the strop when you have a commited motion and direction. The edge NEVER touches the strop anywhere near the turn/flip.

I've done the same, but your damage isn't too bad as it looks like it's at the ends of the leather. Worst case sand down and/or cement, then re oil to salvage the leather.

I also got a cheap strop to practice on till I'm worthy of my SRP beauty :)

My advice is to learn the technique before applying it at speed, muscle memory should kick in at some point.

I'd like to recommend not stopping at the end of the stroke before turning the razor up; rather, begin to turn the razor edge up before finishing the stroke and stopping the stroke with the edge up. With this technique any movement of the razor can't result in damage to the strop as only the blunt spine is in contact with the leather. When the return stroke is started then the edge of the raxzor is brought down into contact with the strop. You are now always moving the razor's edge away from the strop when it's moving and thus cannot nick the leather.

good luck, good shaving

:beer2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Put the spine down first then start moving just before the edge contacts the strop.
Start the flip well before you reach the end of the strop & change direction as the edge begins to land. You should be able to practice that slowly without any hesitation cuts.

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+1 on this technique. You will continue to nick until you do this slow and get your muscle memory to lift the edge (not the spine) BEFORE you stop, flip and then start the return stroke BEFORE you set the edge back down.

If not - what happens is when you try to stop the stroke to get ready for the flop, your hand can do a little jerk and the edge digs into the strop. If you flip and set the edge down you can still be in the forward stroke and nick the strop.

What onimaru55 says should be followed - slowly - speed will build with time - maybe 2 weeks or so.

Your strop does not look bad at all. And I would not replace anything until you can go several months without a nick. You will only spend money and frustrate yourself.

I am new to the stropping game as well, and had the exact same problem you are having (started stropping on my new strop and started putting nicks at both ends). I was worried that I would go through my first strop rather quickly.

Here is what I discovered. The original way I held the razor was wrong and it was causing me to make nicks when I tried to flip the razor over. I was holding the razor with my thumb on the back of the tang and my pointer finger underneath of it, meaning if I held the razor out in front of me, my thumb would be pointed right down the spine. When I would flip, there would be a slight moment where, if I was still making a small motion, I'd catch the razor at one of the far edges and put a little nick in the strop.

My solution was to reverse my grip...i.e., flip the razor over in my hand. Now I hold it with my thumb on the bottom of the tang (blade pointed up toward me) and my index finger under the top of the tang). Then, I use my thumb to achieve the slight "flipping" motion that allows you to pick up a little speed and never make a nick when you flip the razor over. I'm still a novice for sure, but that was what I learned.

Check out the last couple of pages of the 1961 barber manual excerpt here. It is a PDF from the SRP Wiki help files on honing and stropping. I would recommend their suggestion of practicing the flipping without doing the stroke.

I used to hod the razor with the end of my thumbpad on the bottom of the tang and the first joint of my forefinger on top of the tang. When I changed to the tip of the thumbpad on the bottom of the tang and the tip of the forefinger on the top of the tang I found my feel for the pressure improved.

There are odd shaped tangs that require a different grip but most will work well with the above mentioned hold. Here is another way to deal with nicks in a 3" strop. :)

I don't own a straight razor yet but I've sharpened plenty of kitchen knives and really you have to start out very slow and put proper technique into your muscle memory before you try going at all quickly. When you're new to anything it's awkward, just go slow and patiently and before you know it you'll be stropping like a pro.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulKidd

I'm with MickR on this one: take it slow and easy.
The "butterknife" idea is good, too.

May I suggest:
1) position the razor on the strop, making sure that
the edge is in full contact
2) make the stroke, using very light pressure on the
edge....and STOP
3) flip the razor over, and repeat #1...STOP again
4) the idea is, don't move the razor until it is
properly positioned...then do the stroke.

The stroke itself can be fairly rapid, as long as even,
light pressure is maintained. Just make a conscious
effort to STOP at the end of the stroke, before
flipping. Don't move until the position is "good".

Good luck. And BTW, I trashed my first strop, too,
so don't feel too bad.

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I received from a friend a very nice antique razor, after reading a tutorial on honing it on a stone, I read the method you posted about stropping as quoted, the end result of both tutorials did the trick. I'm sporting a nice close shave smooth as my rump the day I was born. Thanks for posting that! Lots of great information on this site.

I think I am going to really enjoy this razor.

-Dennis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PastorDennis

I received from a friend a very nice antique razor, after reading a tutorial on honing it on a stone, I read the method you posted about stropping as quoted, the end result of both tutorials did the trick. I'm sporting a nice close shave smooth as my rump the day I was born. Thanks for posting that! Lots of great information on this site.

I think I am going to really enjoy this razor.

-Dennis

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Welcome to SRP Dennis. Glad to hear of your good fortune with your razor and strop. You might do a post in 'member introductions' as well . I think more members will notice your introducing yourself there. :tu

I have been very fortunate with my strops.
Started with a paddle and focused on developing muscle memory.
the que for me to stroke is the blade slapping down on the turn.
I did a lot of slow stropping untill I had it down to the point I could look away and still keep going without any problems.

Then started using a hanging strop with light pressure but full contact.

Now I have added speed. average speed is 80 passes a minute.

Good luck and stay focused on what you are doing.:w


Silver2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhatMan

This video has been the most use to me for stropping instruction, and is by our very own hi_bud_gl (Sham)

YouTube - straight razor stropping

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Thanks for posting this link - stropping was much easier after watching it earlier. No nicks in the strop or the face today!