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My razor is sharp enough to shave. Stropping is still alright (not the best). Blade does not feel like brand new, but it cuts whiskers.
Neck area WTG is shaving OK - would be better with a MachIII
ATG on the neck is basically BBS - shocking difference
Any tips on why the ATG pass is better?
Is it technique? Sharpness of the razor?
Shaving ATG cuts more because of the direction of the hair, it causes you to get in deeper. However if your razor isn't that sharp shaving with the grain, I wouldn't recommend shaving ATG as it might pull into the skin. Well, hope this helps! Happy shaving! :)
ATG always will take off more hairs then WTG.(but uncomfortable shave)Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil
You may get very close result by
using wtg +xtg . then you will be in master level. gl
For me, I hone my razors up to an 8000 grit stone and strop to polish. I shave in a North/South first pass and a South/North second pass. On my face this is a combination of WTG/XTG and ATG. The XTG occurs on parts my neck.The first pass leaves a bit of felt but not seen, stubble. The shave doesn't feel uncomfortable in the least. The second pass gives a 98% BBS shave and is still comfortable.
I have experienced a much cleaner first pass after our friend Jimbo came around to check my honing technique, and touched up my razors on his (much finer) finishing stones. The shave was even more comfortable at that level too, however, the end results were the same. The first pass still didn't give a perfect BBS (which is to be expected), and the second pass still left those small areas, where for the life of me I can't get the angle just right, with a little bit of roughness to them.
The idea is to reduce the beard on each pass. With a straight razor you have a single blade doing one pass with lather, then a second after re-lathering and so on. With a mach 3 you have three blades covering the same ground. The first takes some hair and the lather away, then number two and three blades come along running on bare skin to take away a bit more each, which is why a modern blade is more prone to give you irritation and ingrown hairs, and also makes for a smoother WTG.
In the end a straight razor will give the better shave, as the other factors involved, beard prep and technique etc all play a part and leave your face the healthier for it. Yes, you could use all the same prep and shave with a mach 3 or similar, but you are still giving yourself a two blade dry shave in every pass, and that can't be good for the health of your facial skin at all.
Mick
Gents, what you say makes sense.
What makes less sense (B/C I have less experience) is that 2 or 3 WTG passes still do not come close to the ATG 2nd pass.
However, when I got the razor fresh from Lynn, I could get very smooth with 2 WTG passes in the same areas.
So I am stumped if it is my poor razor stropping/touch up on a 12k/Crox; or technique that is currently keeping me from having a satisfactory "straight only" shave...
Without actually knowing any thing of your personal experience and skill levels, I'm going to say any touch up of your razor done by you on the stone is going to be the biggest detractor from a honing by Lynn, with maybe a little to be desired technique wise.
I've yet to get myself a finer stone, such as a C12k to see if I can match the fine stone honing that Jimbo put on my razors. I don't think I will actually match it, considering the array of stones he used, and the magical propertys that seemed to emanate from one of them in particular :). I think it will bring me much closer though...Unless my technique is off. And that will be the tell for me.
Remember too, that you are always going to get a superior shave in one ATG, then you will in several WTG. There is only so much a WTG can do before an XTG or ATG comes along for the 'coup de grace'. Unless you have perfect technique! Then perhaps one WTG will result in BBS 100% of the time.
Mick
Easy enough to just send it out for re-honing and be certain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil
Mick,
I am a new Straight Shaver, so there is high probability that my stropping, technique and honing/touch up skill is poor. I shave every day with the Straight, and if I run out of time, I touch up with the Mach III. I shave with both hands, have a normal prep (Shower, hot lather) and strop 25 fabric/50 leather. My TPT tells me that my razor is not as keen as when new, but it does improve if I "touch up" after a few weeks with a Nan 12k. However, it is not like a new pro honed blade.
I am believing that the degraded performance is a combination of all my rookie techniques...however, I still am enjoyong the experience, it is just not as clean of a shave as a new razor.
G'day Elendil, I'd recommend sending it out for a fresh honing. Now, do you have a second straight? Preferably something for practising on. I'd recommend having a second razor, and that's advice coming from a minimalist razor owner.
Like me, you will have yet to come to your full potential with honing/stropping skills and developing that feather light touch required for the truly sharp blade.
Poor shaving technique will be playing a part in it too. I've experience an incredibly poor shave from an even more incredibly sharp razor, due entirely to credibly poor technique.
You're probably past that stage by now and can gain a reasonable shave with out too much issue, but have trouble with some areas or angles. Poor angles will add a little to dulling the edge, and I hope you're not doing the TPT just before a shave and after stropping. It won't help the edge at all.
There are much more qualified people here than me. They will be able to give you the best advice. Just start off with a fresh Pro honing.
I understand the desire to be self sufficient with it all though, to me that is a big part of using a straight...Take it slow, no pressure, and on another razor.
Mick
Mick, Thanks for the great advise. You hit everything on the head. I do have a second razor, so I will send one out to get honed and continue with the learning process...
+1 - Listen to Mick on this. This is a very different philosophy and goal than an M3. Do not care about how close any individual pass is. You have to take them collectively to realize the closeness of the shave.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickR
I don't think in terms of quantity of passes anymore because of this. I have sensitive skin, so I make multiple light passes. I no longer get any skin irritation and my beard looks an feels like it did what I was about 12. And it lasts 12 - 14 hours. Try that with an M3.
BTW - I asked in a thread a while ago why is the str8 so much better. Somebody pointed out that with the different passes in the different directions, the str8 shapes the end of the whisker like a pencil point. So it can grow out of the skin without causing ingrowns and the tips feel softer as the shave ages during the day.
An M3 cuts chisel bluntness that goes below the surface of the skin no matter which direction you shave. That is why you are prone to ingrowns with it.
David
David,
The M3 screws my face up good. In grown hairs on the neck drive me crazy. I absolutely avoid them since using the straight, however, when forced to use a M3 (b/c of lack of time and/or a quick touch up), my neck goes back to crapville.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil
I would seriously invest in a DE for the clean-up while learning and the fall back when time is not available. This is a superior alternative to an M3 because it shaves using the same strategy as a straight razor. Many here do just this.
PS - DE's are way cooler than an M3 (but not as cool as a straight:))
David
WTG, XTG, ATG; I get the same quality of shave (excellent) regardless as to which of these my natural stroke is.
I agree. A DE is much better than using an M3. I'm still in nappies (diapers) with using mine, but for a full shave they come second only to the Cutthroat's and are great for chopping down that one mongrel hair you notice 2 hours after your morning shave, just behind your earlobe, that you missed for the last 3 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alembic
Mick
Onto a DE it will be...now to learn about that!!!
Everyone has different tastes in their personal grooming tools, but I was put onto a Merkur 34 HD by several members here, and it is a great little razor. Small but hefty. YMMV. Comes in C = Chrome or G =Gold.
Whatever (if any) you go for, get a sampler pack of blades to get a feel for what choices you have. You don't have a blade that you can hone to your own satisfaction, what you have is a range of blades to choose from to taylor a shave to suit.
In mens fashion speak, a straight is like having a suit taylor made just for you, whereas a DE is like buying a suit off the rack and having it taken in, to get as close to a perfect fit as possible.
Mick
I agree with Sham (hi_bud...) on this. I rarely go atg. First pass is wtg. The secret here is stretching the skin. This will really improve your first pass. Next is xtg with appropriate skin stretch. If needed I may do a atg just under my chin. Hope that helps. BTW we could be in the same stropping boat. When I started shaving with a straight I stropped perfectly good edges of my razors. Enjoy the learning process!
Shavemind, I believe I have stropped the keen-ness from the edges. I moved the height of my strop, and have attempted to keep it more level/straight (instead of twisting). The last couple of stropping sessions feel much better and I am avoiding the dreaded "Scraping" sound when stropping.
I believe my skin stretching is good.
The ATG pass, on my neck, just seems to be catching that much more hair - even better than a stretched WTG cheek pass or two. So all of this is leading me back to the shaving technique/blade maintenance...which is ultimately leading to poor stropping!
I have to admit I keep one M3 around because sometimes I just don't have the time for a good shave and a DE isn't always the way to go (like when the DE blade is dulled and I'm too sleepy to look for the replacements). On business trips that take me a few timezones east I find that using a straight on that first morning at a local time that works out to 2 or 3 am my time is not always desirable - especially if I need to be sure I don't get nicked and I'm essentially still asleep.
I just replace the DE blade immediately after the first shave that feels only so-so. That way I know I'm ready for the next time I need it. That's just me.You do what works for you. Personally I have lobbed all my cart head razors into the dark recesses of a wardrobe somewhere.
Mick
Giving the DE a shot for the backup or time when I don't have time for the Straight...
ATG is the best for smoothness but still rather rough on the skin. Can't quite get the right angle otherwise on the neck...will try some more stretching.