Sound advice for newbies

As I read post after post, I see several recipes for disaster...Newbies just starting to shave are also anxious to start honing their razors and also use paste...This is a potential disaster for several reasons... a new shaver needs to either send out their razors to be honed by an experienced honer or purchase a used shave ready razor from a reputable sell not one on ebay...With a properly honed razor, a new shaver will learn what a sharp razor should shave and feel like thus establishing a bar to compare other razors in the future...The hone should last 2-3 months during which time the new shaver can learn and improve his shaving and stroping techniques...Honing a razor correctly takes considerable practice and if one doesnt know what a shave ready razor feels like, you wont know if the razor you hone is really sharp...there is a big difference between shaving with a kinda sharp razor and a really sharp blade...With regard to paste, wait to become proficient at stroping your razor...If you strop a razor poorly a good restrop will most always bring the edge back to where it was before you screwed the pooch! A poor stroping with paste will almost certainly destroy the hone on the razor making it basically unshaveable...so masteryour stroping tech before going to paste...If you must buy a stone buy a norton 4000/8000 and a begium codicle to finish up the hone...Buy new stones not used if possible...this is a long term investment and why not start fresh with stones in perfect condition...finally there are many experienced shavers on this forum who will answer your questions ...I am also seeing some very new and inexperienced shavers chimeing in with their opinions and advice...while their intentions are honorable and they want to help, their opinions and advise may be flawed... you are better off getting advise from experienced shavers...patience...

I've brought this up as something to think about before and the more I think about it the more serious I'm starting to take it myself. Maybe we should be telling the novices out there that before starting to shave with a straight they should get themselves a practice razor and develop their honing skills and stropping skills. You all realize almost every post from beginners involves how to hone or strop or I just messed up my new Dovo. Sure you can send out the razor to be honed but every ten or so shaves then what? Are you going to keep sending it out.

Unorthodox advice? Maybe but just something to think about.

There can be no doubt that an inexperienced honer/stropper can ruin his edge very easily, but experience can come in many forms.

East Indian Tabla players study singing for years before they even touch the drum. This way they know when their actions are correct because they know what the sound should be.

I started honing and shaving at the same time. Seemed to work for me, but I also knew that I didn't want to mess with the honemeisters edge at first so I got myself an eBay Duck which actually became shaveable before the honemeister's arrived.

X

A properly honed razor will stay sharp with proper stroping for some 60-90 shaves if you dont believe me ask lynn...plenty of time to get comfortable with stroping and shaving...put a hone in a newbie's hand even with a practice razor and he will sooner than he should put the good razor on the hone...human nature!

I would like to chime in here as a newbie. I started off not knowing anything about straight razors and bought the cheapest thing I could find on ebay that was described as "new". Stupid! It was a pakistani razor that is now in my tool box to be used as a box cutter. Then I discovered this site, found out Paki razors are crap, and that new razors are seldom shave ready. I then bought another NOS razor from ebay, it was still not quite shave ready but it would cut hair, it just pulled when I got to the heavy parts of my beard. I tried to used a pasted dtrop to get it into shape but nothing worked. I was ready to give up straight razors completely. That is when I finally ordered a razor from Bill Ellis. It was kind of a last ditch effort for me to see if I could actually shave with a straight. Once I shaved with the shave ready razor from Bill it completely changed my attitude. Now that I know what a sharp razor feels and shaves like I want to continue using a straight. I have a pair of 4000 and 8000 grit hones that I can use on the other razor while I develop my technique using the shave ready razor. I guess what I am saying is the first thing I think a newbie should buy is a shave ready razor. Then you can see if you like straight razor shaving and determine if you want to invest in hones and other razors. Let's face it. Shaving with a straight is not for everybody and it is best to find out with a good razor than to start out with something that is going to disappoint no matter what.

Just my 2 cents

thx Jim I think you are a great example of my post...Im glad things are working out & you are starting to enjoy a new and better way of shaving...Im sure your hones will be fine...I would rather see you with a norton4/8 and a belgium cot but see how it goes...I would suggest buying a shave ready razor from either a vendor on this site or a member of forum instead of ebay for awhile if you desire another razor...razors on ebay usually arent shave ready and unless you are careful know the ques to ask the seller and look closely at pics you can get duped...

Well Jim I couldn`t aggree more
I went the other way before I found this forum and I recon that I`m probably a couple of hundred down and still need a few items
I wish I had found you guys earlier
Kind regards Peter

My advice in this case would be for a newbie to get a Shavette, and start learning honing and stroping right away, referencing to a DE blade sharpness. You have to learn that sometime. As for the lasting of the hone job, I have to touch up my razors every 7-10 shaves. That is far from 60-90 shaves, and I think it depends on the coarsness of the beard.

Nenad

I started learning to hone right away......it worked for me.

As usuall, I took the other route...I learned to hone before learning to shave. Bought an e-bay special (actually not a bad razor--a Silberstahl) and spent several evenings with it on my Arkansas stones. As you might imagine, it took awhile to bring a dull razor to shaving sharpness on an Arkansas Black. However, I did it and in the process learned how to hone, learned that shaving is indeed the best test for a sharp razor, learned that I needed a faster hone (not necessarily better)...quickly bought a Norton 4/8K, and later, to check my honing skills bought a Lynn honed razor.

Just another data point,
Ed

I'm getting a razor from Randy, and I'm currently honing deficient.
I'm looking at a 4 sided paddle from Tony. .25, .5, and 1 micron paste on three of the sides, then an ordinary daily strop on the fourth side. Are the three paste sides for touch-up?
I guess my understanding is that you hone a blade rarely, like once or twice a year, touch up every couple of weeks with pasted strops, then use a standard strop on a daily basis. Am I off?

Mike

Mike, That sounds about right. Although you will find it depends upon the razor each is different.

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Originally Posted by TMike

I guess my understanding is that you hone a blade rarely, like once or twice a year, touch up every couple of weeks with pasted strops, then use a standard strop on a daily basis.

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That should work pretty nicely actually. Each gentleman is unique as is each razor so you might find some alteration as time goes by, but it sound sound(:D) as a starting point.

X

Thanks guys, good to know I'm on the right track.
Heck, its good to know I can be taught (In your face! Friggin' high school guidance counciler)

I 100% agree with getting a shave ready razor from a master. As for learning to sharpen up front or down the road...well that depends on the person. Starting with hones takes concentration, starting with pastes takes the ability to follow instructions accurately and at least from what I have seen has a pretty high sucess rate. 50-60 shaves....well, I have owned razors honed by the best of them and no where near approach that number of shaves.

As time goes on with this opinons are formed, opinions are modified, opinions are tossed aside. I once felt you needed a way to touch up a razor and unless really into the honing thing could get away with sending one out a few times a year. I now really feel everyone should eventually learn to use some kind of stone as well as strops. Even a barber hone will be fine for touchups with practice but a Norton does offer the best bet.

I think if one reads Joe Lerch's posts and possibly AF Davis' you can see how a person progresses through many thoughts on honing as he learns. Suggestions arev just that.....something to get you started. Practice will help you develop your own path.

But, starting with a quality, shave ready razor.....I am 100% with Charlie on this one!

Tony

I'd have to agree with superfly. A shavette has been a really cheap option for me while slowly building up everything else I need. Commiting to straight shaving takes time and a newbie doesn't need to buy much gear to find out wether it's for him or not.
Fork out $15 for a shavette and you'll get a pretty good idea in the first few months if it's for you. Even a low end blade from a member will set you back a bit then add the price of a strop and the $$ soon mount up.

I dont agree...a str8 gives a different shave...face feels different after shaving...how can you know if you like something if you use an immitation...

I've been using a feather for about two weeks. It *definitely* feels different than my regular shave, and I'm hoping to get a regular straight soon (once I get a strop and supplies from Tony) to see how different the str8 is from the feather. I have noticed that when I shave with the feather, I usually go about a day and a half before I start feeling any sort of growth again as opposed to my normal "have to shave every morning or I look like a street bum" routine.

I've been alternating, I'll shave every other day... first in the morning when I get up, then a day and a half later in the evening before I go to bed, then vice versa. The feather is scary sharp and seems to shave far closer than anything I've ever used. I'm only doing two passes though. Haven't been brave enough to try that third pass.

-- Gary F.

I have a razor from Lynn and two from Bill. These are really great shavers.
My first attempt at honing and stropping was on a 6/8 Bengal. Great result for me. I tried it first and it was awful, the edge looked good but wasn't close.
20 laps on a 6000 waterstone, 20 each on 1 and 0.5 micron pasted paddle strop and then 50 passes on leather hanging strop. Great shave.

I've since tried reviving a really dirty, nasty, rusty Dorko. Cleaned up and polished nicely but still needs more honing, pasting, stropping yet to get near where I want it to be. An on-going project and a good tester.

I've since leather stropped Lynn's and Bill's straights, no degredation at all.
Still very sharp and great shavers. I'm not rushing, no pressure to speak of and keeping the blade really flat with spine / heel leading.

No problemo for me..yet..

Gary

Great read, I have been hiding here for a few days now taking in as much info as I can in my spare time and have been picking up quite a bit. Charlie, A.K.A. Clarman gave me some rather sound advice in regards to shaving and I'm very appreciative. I'm just sifting through all of the information trying to figure out what will work for me. Until I become rather experienced at shaving I will be content to just hide around here soaking up info and occasionally posting in the off topic forum as I know it will be quite sometime before I can contribute knowledge of any real value to this forum. Thanks too everyone who has pointed me in the right direction, and a very appreciative thank you to Clarman for taking the time to talk to me in regards to the intracicies of shaving with a straight. I'm sure I will have more questions as soon as I recieve my razor, until that time I will continue to learn.

John

I'm glad I started learning early. Now after 2 years I feel like I understand most of the concepts and have a little skill. I can hone a razor to a level of sharpness that I, and probably only I, can enjoy. But, based on the time it took me to learn what I know now, I'd say start learning as soon as possible. Not to produce a good shave, but to learn the skill. Eventually, you'll get it and want to hone your own. I only now feel, after 2 years, like I really understand what I'm doing. Now most guys get it quicker than I did, but, its not quite as simple as it looks.

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I think if one reads Joe Lerch's posts and possibly AF Davis' you can see how a person progresses through many thoughts on honing as he learns. Suggestions arev just that.....something to get you started. Practice will help you develop your own path.



Tony

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Upon clarman's request I shipped my razor to Lynn via ClassicShaving.com, still waiting to get it back which hopefully will be sometime next week. I did shave with it before just to get a feel for the razor and new right away that I needed to send it out to get honed. I look forward to shaving with the razor when I get it back. Everyone speaks very highly of Lynn's ability to hone a straight so I know I will not be disappointed.

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Originally Posted by garythepenman

20 laps on a 6000 waterstone, 20 each on 1 and 0.5 micron pasted paddle strop and then 50 passes on leather hanging strop. Great shave.

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That's great to hear. I've never worked with a 6000 stone, but always imagined that it would be a good tool used much as you describe. Thanks for sharing that.

X

I used a kind of "double strategy":

I had at first two DOVO's and stropped them with the green paste (=8000 grid) really sharp. Afterwards just stropping with the leather held them sharp for month. Stropping is frequently underestimated, it lasts longer than honing but you are getting real good results - with enough patience ... ;)

Besides that I but a bunch of really old razor at ebay and "restored" them, meaning sanding the blade and try to hone afterwards. (B.t.w. the first razor was broken in two pieces while trying to sand it ... I had not yet the superb CD of Bill Ellis ... :shrug:

Up to now I restored about 20 str8s and made 12 of them really shaveready, so they can do daily service ... :D

Arnd

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Originally Posted by clarman

I am also seeing some very new and inexperienced shavers chimeing in with their opinions and advice...while their intentions are honorable and they want to help, their opinions and advise may be flawed... you are better off getting advise from experienced shavers...patience...

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I guess I'm probably one of the people that Charlie is talking about in regard to new shavers offering advice.:hmmm: I take no offense to that, as it's just my nature to learn something as quickly as I can, and then relay what I've learned from my experiences. I don't want to misrepresent my knowledge level, nor do I want to misinform anyone with my advice.

I think that we shoud all be adult enough, and have a thick enough skin, to be able to take a little constructive criticism without being offended. I'm one of those people that can admit that I'm wrong, and learn from someone who can point me in the right direction.

If I write anything on these forums that isn't correct, I hope that you gentlemen will be bold enough to point out the error of my ways, and help me (and anyone else who reads the posts) learn how to do things in a better way, or to get my facts straight.

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Originally Posted by canerunner

If I write anything on these forums that isn't correct, I hope that you gentlemen will be bold enough to point out the error of my ways, and help me (and anyone else who reads the posts) learn how to do things in a better way, or to get my facts straight.

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Oh, don't worry about that! We're watching you guys and reviewing every post. :-)

This has been a lot of help. I have been using a DE for a while and have been very interested in switching to a str8 (I have great memories of watching my grandfather using one). Like many newbs I bought a couple of razors off eBay (a Faultless and a Leader which I really like). I have been using the Faultless to practice my honing - did manage to buy a Norton 4/8.

I have been using a Feather to practice with and have gotten pretty good, but still need the practice. I have really been wanting to use the Leader but have been frustrated that its not in shape to shave with. Now, having read a lot more of the postings, I understand that it will require a good bit of work; a lot more than I would have previously thought.

The downloads have been a great help (having just discovered them) and I refer to them quite often.

Truthfully, I am happy about the extra work it will require as I enjoy the honing process; my wife likes it because it keeps me quiet as I concentrate on the technique.

Anyway, I really want to let everyone know I think the Forum is great and while I have not learned enough I DO continue to learn!

Thanks for saying 'hi'. If I might recomend, you should consider getting a shave ready razor from a honemeister at some point. Either send one of yours out to be honed, buy one, trade for it or borrow it. This is just to set the bench mark for yourself so you know what to shoot for. Until you do you will remain at least a little in the dark and trust me, you want to see the light. :D

X

Yes. I'd second that. Received my Imperial from Lynn the other day and what I THOUGHT were sharp razors, I discovered quickly need a LOT more work! It's great to have this one to compare.

I can definately see the reason and benefit behind getting a razor sharpened professionally. As a matter of fact I will likely be doing that soon enough. In the meantime I am practicing on the hone.

However, after reading some of the information in the Archives it would seem that I might need a 1K hone to recreate the edge on my razor and then finish it up on the 4k/8k Norton - and strop prior to shaving. Keep in mind I am referring back to the portion of Barber's books posted in the Archives describing the use of hones.

Besides, I can pickup a Dovo 5/8 for about $56 and have it sent to Lynn (I believe I read that he handles that service for Classicshaving.com).

Anyway, I am already enjoying myself and I haven't even gotten past the Feather!

BTW, the Superfly videos in the archives won't work on my setup. I have downloaded them but can't play them - won't recognize the format.

What a great benefit it would be to have another of the Honemeisters make a video on Honing and Stropping - much like Lynn did with his shaving video... I know many of the newbs (especially myself) would benefit from seeing them. Cover some of the issues involved with each process.

Sorry for the double post.

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Originally Posted by kcnbk

BTW, the Superfly videos in the archives won't work on my setup. I have downloaded them but can't play them - won't recognize the format.

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They are coded with Xvid codec, for smallest size. Let the media player update online, or download the XviD or DivX codec from the net. There is a plan to redo them in something more familiar...

Nenad

xvid may be downloaded here.
Alternatively, the much more comprehensive decoder ffdshow can be downloaded here. FFDShow is abit more advanced, however. It's what I use and its decoding libraries decode 45 or so different video compressions.