Ugh...... sharpening..........

Hello there everybody,
I really could use some help. I am having a very hard time getting my razors "shave ready" one will cut arm hair even hanging hair but when i shave with it it still pulls. The other is a cmon stainless that has a hard time even shaving arm hair close. My four other razors are semi-crappy ebay razors i bought to practice honing before I started on my good ones. I have the following supplies
4k 8k norton water stone
mountain mike leather strop with web material not canvas
Nagura Stone 6000 / 8000 Grit Water Stone (small, I think it's for making slurries) Came with an ebay razor

If anyone has a set pattern of what they do or have similar items I would greatly apreciate your input. I know about the sharpening services but I really want to be able to make a razor "razor" sharp!

PLEASE HELP ! ! ! I am going crazy!

Thanks everybody,
Austen

The one thing you need is a 1k grit stone.
You aren't going to get it to shave well without setting a good bevel first, and the requires a 1k grit stone.

After that you have what you need to get it shave ready.
Remember to do a lot, a lot, a lot of reading in the wiki.

I'm not aware of any formulas, only expertise. I think quite a bit of honing is more about skill, repeatable skill, over a formula.

Essentially, set the bevel correctly, then polish. Either use light pressure or use less and less pressure, but sharpness comes from using light to no pressure.

As much as I want to disprove the idea that honing is art I can say that 99% of the time there is a moment in honing every razor that I've honed that requires me to become creative, delicate, quizical, apply lighter and lighter touches, go down in grit, check bevel symmetry, strop, review, and/or change honing angles, etc., in a strange little dance that eventually leads to ultimate sharpness. I get a different dance every time.

Another option is to send the razor out to get honed, specifically with the idea in mind that the person that hones it shares the required action that took place from the moment he started honing the razor all the way through to shaving sharpness.

You have a 4k/8k combo. Have you lapped the top one
or two mm off the top of the Norton?

Inspect the WiKi for the pyramid honing method.
I found the pyramid method to be as close
to a recipe as you can get.

If the bevel is less than ideal it may take a couple tries.
If it was previously shave ready some folk use a shorter
pyramid or just touch up on the 8k side.

Nagura Stone is a do not care for now, ignore it.
It will come in handy later.

Keep it simple soak the hone for 10 min to begin
and each time you switch sides rinse the
hone off in a bucket. Lightly wipe the razor
when you go from coarse to finer but with
the pyramid method it matters less than
a telescope maker might tell you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trevorxgage

The one thing you need is a 1k grit stone.
You aren't going to get it to shave well without setting a good bevel first, and the requires a 1k grit stone.

After that you have what you need to get it shave ready.
Remember to do a lot, a lot, a lot of reading in the wiki.

---

I'm sorry, but that's just not correct. You can set a bevel with a 4k, it simply takes a lot more time.

Regardless, the setting of the bevel is as critical as Trevorxgage suggested.

So, for ShavetheBear, I have an offer for you. Send me one or more or your razors and I will just set the bevel and stop there. I'll let you take it from there and most likely you will end up with a sharp razor. Seriously, in my opinion 90% of honing is setting the bevel. If you'd like to try this, send me a PM.

I haven't messed with the norton yet what is lapping?

thanks for the info!

A

Lapping the norton is critical. Lapping is the flattening of the hone. For the Nortons, this also involves removing enough of the outer layer of the 4k side of the hone to eliminate the coarser grit in the hone. Both the Wiki and the honing section have a thread entitled Honing 101 that describes lapping. Basically, you need either a diamond plate such as a DMT, or else a coarse lapping stone, or the cheapest option which is sandpaper on a flat surface. Regardless of what is used, lapping should be done under running water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShavetheBear

I haven't messed with the norton yet what is lapping?

thanks for the info!

A

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Utopian got 99% of this already.

Here are some thoughts that might
fill in that last 1%...

The Norton Combo is a man made hone that I think
of as a cast or molded mass. I think of plaster of paris
mixed with sand only finer than sand and cast into a loaf pan.

In the process of casting the mold interacts with
the surface of what will be the hone and develops a crust.
Anyhow, not unlike a cake or loaf of bread. Sometimes it is a
little and other times it is a bit more. I also suspect a release
agent interaction. Again think cake -- butter then flower the cake
pan so it releases.

By wearing the top eighth of an inch off one time you
get past this crust or rind and get to the sweet
uniform middle that make Nortons so pleasant to use.
Sometimes you will see small air bubbles... they are harmless.

This only needs to be done once so medium to coarse wet/dry
black 3M paper from the auto body shop on a flat surface will
do the trick. Running water helps.

The other reason to lap the surface is to hone the surface
flat. Flat matters when you switch from one grit to another.
The shape/ surface of the razor and hone needs to match.
Flat is the easiest shape to match from hone to hone to hone.
A combo hone will dish a little on both sides and as long
as both sides match a little is OK.

The last reason to lap the surface is way overused. With
use a hone will gather bits of metal (swarf) and sometimes
clog the hone. A hone can get very dark and still cut
fine. If you scrub with dish soap and a sponge most of the
dark swarf will wash right off.

We often make reference to a DMT because they
are flat from the factory and cut fast. You have a Norton --
Nortons are very soft so inexpensive wet dry 3M paper from
the auto body shop and a flat surface is all you need.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I'm sorry, but that's just not correct. You can set a bevel with a 4k, it simply takes a lot more time.

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It takes ***A LOT*** more time. In theory you can do it, but in practice your hand will drop off & your eyeballs will fall out first. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating just a little, but most ordinary mortals will never get a decent bevel set with a fine hone because they will get tired & bored before the bevel is even close to done. My go-to bevel setter is 1000 or 1500 grit wet/dry on a piece of plate glass, just because it is super aggressive and gets the job done fast.

By no means do I consider myself a razor restorer, but I did restore a Butcher Brothers half-hollow square point with blonde celluloid scales I bought at an antique store. The blade was pitted and rusty all over, but the edge was in pretty good shape, so I decided to try my hand at bringing it back. First, it took a lot of hand sanding with progressively higher grits to get the blade presentable and functional.

Now for the honing part. I used a yellow coticule and nothing else. When I started, I could literally make a sawing motion across my forearm without so much as breaking the skin. I had to break the project up over several days. Each time taking an hour or so taking milky slurry into mud. I had never so much as sharpened a lawn mower blade, so I didn't know what to expect. Anyway, I really did think my eye balls would fall out of my head before that thing ever cut arm hair, but that day finally came, and now that Sheffield blade is one of my favorite shavers!

It has been mentioned before that its good to purchase a shave ready razor either new or used so you have something to compare against. That way you know if its blade or technique.