Still can't get it. Please help

I have been trying to straight shave for a few months now. I have tried about 15 times I would say. I only have to shave about every 5 days before it gets to "scruffy" looking.
Here is my set-up:
-Dovo best quality 6/8 from SRD shave ready
-Heinrich L. Thater 26mm silver tip
- Straight Razor Designs Premium IV (Long) English Bridle strop
-Caslte forbes lime cream, trufitt and hill 1805 cream, and Mama bears dragon blood soap
-L'occitane pre-shave oil

My routine:
1. Strop on webbed 50 times then leather 50 times
2. Make lather
3. Place hot towel over face for about a minute
4. Lather my face
5. Place hot towel over face again for another minute
6. Re-lather
7. Start shaving
8. Start crying (almost but not really)

The problem:
I can shave my burns and cheeks down to the jawline with minimal pain. Once I get to the the jawline and below the chin and neckline, I am in so much pain. The pulling, which I would believe is what I'm feeling, is unbearable. Now I have had this problem every time. Now I know someone is going to say the razor is probably dull. It passes the arm test...
Maybe someone will say it's my angle. I re-lather over and over trying every angle possible. It still hurts...
Maybe not stretching the skin taught enough? Anymore taught-er and my nipples would be in my face...
Short strokes and long strokes, still hurts...
Obviously I am doing something wrong but can't possibly think what. One thing I do notice is that after making one little pass on my face, my skin where I just shaved is very sticky and dry. So i tried using the oil and still no such luck. I have tried shaving with cold water and it's just worse.
I have tried a hot shower before and still no luck.
I let my hair grow between 1/8th in and the hair is very thick. But this shouldn't matter because my first wet shave at a barber my hair was longer and no discomfort what-so-ever.
I don't think it's my lathering ability because I have to finish with my mach 3 and the lather is good

So please help me out here. Sorry if i sounded rather snotty but I am fed and annoyed and very frustrated.

Thank you,
-Anthony

Is stropping part of your routine?

It does take time and practice to shave yourself. A shave ready razor can tug and pull while the user is still learning how to use it

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Is stropping part of your routine?

It does take time and practice to shave yourself. A shave ready razor can tug and pull while the user is still learning how to use it

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How the hell can I forget to add stropping to my routine! I new I missed something.

Yes, I strop about 50 times on the webbed fabric then 50 times on the leather

+1 to what hoglahoo said. Do you strop? If so, what's your technique like? Not stropping at all would probably lead to an uncomfortable shave, and doing it improperly could dull your razor very quickly. I had that problem when I started out too. Tell us about more about that area of your shave.

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Originally Posted by Tino8787

+1 to what hoglahoo said. Do you strop? If so, what's your technique like? Not stropping at all would probably lead to an uncomfortable shave, and doing it improperly could dull your razor very quickly. I had that problem when I started out too. Tell us about more about that area of your shave.

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Disregard. I wrote that before the last couple messages went up. Good luck with future shaves.

Just because it passes the hair on the arm test doesnt mean it pass the Shave test. You say it is Shave ready but if its tugging on the hair and not popping it, its not really shave ready. I had a razor that would take hair off the arm but it was ripping it off my face. Got my razor honed at my local old school barber and havent had a problem since.
You should do the same.Makes a world of difference.

Stick with it. It will get better.

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Originally Posted by TrilliumLT

Just because it passes the hair on the arm test doesnt mean it pass the Shave test. You say it is Shave ready but if its tugging on the hair and not popping it, its not really shave ready. I had a razor that would take hair off the arm but it was ripping it off my face. Got my razor honed at my local old school barber and havent had a problem since.
You should do the same.Makes a world of difference.

Stick with it. It will get better.

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Been having this problem bout of the box after having Lynn hone it. I would say it's shave ready.

I had a lot of trouble with this as well. I haven't been at this long but here are a few problems that I had that might help.

My neck hair grows in an unusual pattern. It took me way to long to figure out what direction to take the razor to achieve a passable shave. On top of that I was making way too many passes and just irritating my skin.

The next problem was my stropping. I was going way to fast and not getting it right. I am not sure what changed but after taking some time and focusing it just clicked. I am still really slow but my razor is staying sharper than it was before. From reading this and other forums stropping is the cause of a lot of issues for new shavers.

Hope it works out for you and that this helped

The first 2 or 3 weeks (shaving daily) I used a DE to finish my chin and the difficult parts of my neck. Say that to say that since you are shaving every few days and tried the straight 15 times, if I understood correctly, what you're going through is not unheard of. As crazy as it may sound try no prep and lather with cold water.

Rub the lather in with your finger tips. Do not rinse but do relather. Try the shave and see if it doesn't improve. That is my daily routine. Also you might go to 30 and 30 linen and leather on the stropping. Sometimes it can be too much of a good thing. Also remember that gradual stubble removal is preferable than trying to get it all with one pass. Some do 3 and 4. I do 2 as a rule. :gl:

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Originally Posted by saf

I had a lot of trouble with this as well. I haven't been at this long but here are a few problems that I had that might help.

My neck hair grows in an unusual pattern. It took me way to long to figure out what direction to take the razor to achieve a passable shave. On top of that I was making way too many passes and just irritating my skin.

The next problem was my stropping. I was going way to fast and not getting it right. I am not sure what changed but after taking some time and focusing it just clicked. I am still really slow but my razor is staying sharper than it was before. From reading this and other forums stropping is the cause of a lot of issues for new shavers.

Hope it works out for you and that this helped

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Thank you for your input. I do take notice of the direction my hair grows on my face and shave WTG.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The first 2 or 3 weeks (shaving daily) I used a DE to finish my chin and the difficult parts of my neck. Say that to say that since you are shaving every few days and tried the straight 15 times, if I understood correctly, what you're going through is not unheard of. As crazy as it may sound try no prep and lather with cold water.

Rub the lather in with your finger tips. Do not rinse but do relather. Try the shave and see if it doesn't improve. That is my daily routine. Also you might go to 30 and 30 linen and leather on the stropping. Sometimes it can be too much of a good thing. Also remember that gradual stubble removal is preferable than trying to get it all with one pass. Some do 3 and 4. I do 2 as a rule. :gl:

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Hey Jimmy and thanks for your help. I did speak to you a while ago about cold water shaving and tried it only to be unsuccessful at that too lol. It feels that it pulls more with no prep and cold water.

Question did you strop the razor before your first shave?

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Originally Posted by Castel33

Question did you strop the razor before your first shave?

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Negative. I didn't want to mess it up by stropping it wrong lol

Remembering my first couple of weeks, I felt awkward holding the razor. That is with daily shaving and it took awhile to feel comfortable with manipulating it. The tendency to press into the skin was there too. Took some time for me to learn to let the razor glide on the skin and cut the whiskers. If I didn't get it all the first time it was there to be gotten on the next pass. Not sure if any of that applies. Just thinking out loud. :)

I would recommend getting the razor re-honed only to be sure and then see if one of the NY folks can watch you shave. I can't tell at this point if your trying too hard or if it really may be just a technique thing. Having someone there to watch and help will gain you light years when your at the level of frustration you are showing. The most puzzling thing is that the cheek is no problem but then the neck is.

Have fun,

Lynn

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Originally Posted by AnthonySzum

One thing I do notice is that after making one little pass on my face, my skin where I just shaved is very sticky and dry.

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I saw you said you tried the oil, but did you try oil only, or oil and then lather? I sometimes use a shave oil under the lather and it makes a super smooth shave for me. Oil alone did nothing for me, but under lather made a huge difference. You can use grapeseed oil if you don't have shave oil , if you don't want to get the fancy stuff just to try. That's basically what it is anyways.

Also perhaps shave more often, I found it easier in the beginning to shave every day and not let it grow much inbetween. Persistance is key - I had some tugging issues myself when I started out but now it's all smooth sailing. Best of luck.

You can really screw up the angle when it comes to you neck. The contours of it, it's angled, it's under your face, and it's relatively hard for some to get the proper angle when it comes to the neck. I hope your not using any pressure when you shave, that would most definitely cause pain. When you do your neck, have the blade nearly flat on your skin, very minimal angle, See if you feel any pain then, lightly shave the cream off. If this works, gradually increase your angle so your getting a proper shave, and feeling no pain...

As previously mentioned, Shaving is the true test...Angle is the biggest problem with new str8 shavers.

P.S. Not to beat a dead horse, but you must strop it before you shave.
You can do 25 linen, and 50 leather...go slow, and be methodical about it.
Speed will come, right know, go for consistency and accuracy....

I might help to get it rehoned. After all, SRD does offer a free honing after buying a razor from them right?

I know you said that it's shaving arm hair, and that it pulled in the beginning. But consider that arm hair can be cut,allegedly, after a 1000K stone. That doesn't mean it's shave ready. As for pulling in the beginning, well that just means it was pulling because of your technique. My razor pulled in the beginning too but now it doesn't. Your razor might be dull now!

Maybe try shaving with the spine against your skin? Light pressure--I know you're probably tired of reading that.

Also maybe try shaving everyday and see if that helps? Possibly the longer hair would be harder to cut? I don't know, it's just a thought.

I would like to help you out considering I live near you, but I'm still a newb.

I just started back with str8 razor shaving after about 30 years. It was really bad for the first few shaves. I probably took 3 layers of skin off along with the beard and had a few nicks. I kept trying and thing are fine now. Here is my advice to beginners. Good beard prep. Sharp blade. Don't worry about the HHT. You will know when you shave if it is right or wrong. Pull skin. Short strokes perpendicular to the edge. Light touch meaning don't lean into the blade. Proper angle. Learn your face. Go slow. Don't worry about a BBS shave. Gain confidence and technique and speed will come naturally. Finally don't get discourage. The only time I nick myself anymore is when I'm moving the blade around my face not paying attention to how close it is to my skin. We all make mistakes.

Maybe your skin is really sensitive, or you're putting too much weight on the razor? Also, 15 shaves might not be enough time to learn all the ins & outs. I still get bad shaves from time to time. Keep at it & take your time, you'll start to get better results.

Ill just add one thing
you say you shave every 5 days. Then do you have a clear place to start so you dont have to cut trough stubble to reach the skin?
May be you have to long beard for beginner tecnique

Other than that get it rehoned now 15 shaves can be a lot if your maintainance isnt up to par

I had a tough time of it when I first started. Maybe not quite the frustration level you feel, but I see some similarities. I found that it was not one single thing. There are several skills that come together to have that "touch".

All the things that the previouus respondents mentioned are potentially the cause. IME, out of all the variables, the most difficult one to conquer was the light touch required.

Because of my type A personality, it took a tremendous amount of restraint to not push the razor with too much force and to also not expect too much too soon as far as results. You already said you had a comfortable shave at the barbershop, so there's nothing weird about you that would make it impossible for you to have a close, comfortable SR shave. Relax. I really like Lynn's idea of a personal check up on your technique.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

The first 2 or 3 weeks (shaving daily) I used a DE to finish my chin and the difficult parts of my neck...

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And, you might consider using a DE or safety razor to start your shave, finishing with a straight razor.

The hardest part of straight razor shaving for many newbies is the first part of the shave. The whiskers are long. By the time you have them wacked down to close to skin level, you have a good case of razor burn.

Typically, shaving is easier after the whiskers are shorter. So, you might consider shaving with a DE or safety razor down to the short stubble length. Then, shave with a straight. That way, you can learn technique, angle and such, with much less chance of pain. Then, slowly learn to deal with longer and longer whiskers, but at your own speed.

Wow...we are all tossing ideas out, but what Lynn said would be great if someone could be next to you.

But I'll add 2cents. Especially if coming off a disposable.

1/8" of hair is a lot.

Many light, with the grain passes will be required. As you noted short strokes. LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT pressure. And narrow strokes. What is light pressure?

Only a small portion of the flat blade will contact your face. If it hurts, I will say you are putting too much pressure.

My face curves inwards. My wrist pitches outwards. The blade is 3 inches, but only a 5/8 of its width contacts to cut. Outboard and inboard of the contact area just grazes. If I am trying to get more of the blade than the contour of my face allows, that's too much pressure.

I'd also blame angle, but you said you have it right. Not trying to sound argumentative, but be attentive here.

If I were to force that flat blade onto my round face I will be in pain.

So not only light strokes at the correct angle,

Very light pressure with the straight.

Don't focus on getting down to skin on the initial pass or two.

This may be kind of an addendum to what I posted above.

I didn't shave yesterday, so with a little longer growth this morning, paid attention to how I could duplicate pain while shaving.

As you noted, I think the razor is tugging on the hairs, and not cutting through them. Wow-what a perfect torture device when done like that!

If I was inattentive to my index finger, the blade would not make deliberate cuts through the hair.

Try paying attention to your index finger, to keep the finger firm. Your not trying to man handle the blade either. Just so in control of blade.

I just grabbed a butter knife, dragging the back side of over my clean shaven face. I can duplicate that wrong feeling when I just drag the device on my face, and it just kind of skips along. But, when I hold my index finger, thumb, and even the back of my hand firmly, it is a solid swipe like it should be.

note:As a play with the butter knife, I can not duplicate the wrong way on my arm. I realize, after shaving, with a witch hazel/aftershave splash, my face is some what tacky to the feel. I think this heightens the effect to feel the right vs wrong.

Good Luck

Wow guy's thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it. I'm actually going to print out this thread and save it to look at to help me remember all this excellent info. I will try to see when and where, if any, NYC meets will be. I would love to attend to see what it's all about. I am going to send it out to get re-honed. Before I do that, should I try to touch it up with chromium oxide? I bought some off a member here a few months back and was going to apply some with oil to some balsa wood purchased at the craft store.

Again, thank you so much for all your help guys.

-Anthony