New SR: doesn't seem sharp enough?

I just got my first straight razor from Vintage Blades - a nice Dovo "Best", honed by the Honorable Lynn Abrams. So, I realize I'm treading on uncertain grounds, being a novice used to a Merkur DE.

I felt a *lot* of pulling on my first shave. Much, much more than with my DE, for example. I reviewed 'The World of Straight Razor Shaving', and the 'hanging hair' test doesn't work.

Advice? Is it plausible I got a less-than-ready blade? Any ways I should test this, beyond the 'hanging hair' test?

I'm a bit reluctant to hone the blade, because at this point I'd assume technique is the issue. But the 'hanging hair' test makes me wonder. I don't want to get discouraged because I'm combining a dull blade and poor technique!

While there is a microscopic chance the razor is not sharp enough, the overwhelming likelihood is that your technique has a lot to improve. Pulling often is the result of too steep an angle of the razor to your face. The spine of the razor should be lifted a little less than half-way to being perpendicular. About 30 degrees or so. Steeper than that and it will just scrape along your face and pull.

You could also be putting too much pressure on your face. Just guide the edge along your face with as little pressure as possible.

You might also have stropped poorly and dulled the blade some. We all did that when we started out.

Hope that helps. You'll definitely get lots of better advice from others.

This never seems to work for me as well. I dont know if its because the hair is to fine or we use to much conditioner in my house. Did you strop your blade? Does it shave hair off your arm? What was your pre-shave?

Its a common tendancy for a beginner to blame failing on the blade instead of their techinque. If it was honed by lynn, you can bet its as good as its going to get. The HHT is pretty unreliable. Some blades can pass it, but will still give a bad shave. Other blades won't pass it, and give great shaves.

Getting a good shave with a straight razor is very dependant on your technique, not just the razor. Being the first few shaves, you should expect it to not be as good as you were used to with the easy convenient disposables.

If you are getting a lot of pulling, I'd suggest a few things.

1) Lower the blade angle, often beginners go for 30 degrees, but end up with 45. Flatten that puppy down to your face, and then raise the spine up by 2-3 spine widths.

2) Don't move the blade totally perpendicular to the edge, angle it a bit. Look at my profile pic for details.

3) Understand that learning with a straight is a skill that takes time. Be alright with that. Make sure you do a good beard prep, then focus on keeping your angles right, your skin tight, and your touch light.

I strongly suggest that you read this thread. Lynn is human. It is possible that he did not get the razor up to snuff. I'd put the odds of that at about 1/1000 and the odds of the the bad shave being your fault at 999/1000. The hanging hair test is useless if you did not remove the oil from the blade. It also varies depending on the blade and the hair and the tester. The shave test is all that matters.

I'd suggest that you keep practicing and read as much of the beginner's advice sections as possible. It takes a while to learn how to use a straight.

Thanks to the four who have replied so far (in seconds, seriously!)

That's just the advice I needed. My only way of testing the blade was what I've read, so knowing that those tests are not 100% is useful. I hope my post conveyed my feeling that my technique was probably to blame!

Notes:
I didn't strop the blade, because the notes included specifically said not to because someone with way more experience than me had already honed it. :D

I'll just give it some time - I'd rather work on technique than risk messing up the blade by honing it in an unprofessional way. I have some experience honing chisels, but have never tried to shave with them!

(BTW, to get four replies in such a short time is amazing - you guys are amazing.)

+1 on everything above.

Technique is about everything in the beginning and it is easy to think you have the right angle but are actually higher. I have found that shaving with a DE requires different technique than a straight.

Yes the angling of the blade is basically the same but the way you have to angle it is totally different. I would say if you are having trouble with the angle try starting with the blade closer to your face and see how that works, you can always work your way to a steeper angle later.

All great advice. I have four blades, all sharpened by Lynn. None have passed the HHT. But they are all wicked sharp and shave great. I am convinced it is my fine hair!

Given what you have told us I would say that you should absolutely not try honing the razor. Barring some kind of damage in shipment or stropping you can probably assume that your razor is sharp enough. If you try to hone it without the correct equipment and, more importantly, expertise you will almost certainly make things worse. I would also ignore the HHT for now, as well.

Assuming your prep is OK you probably just need to work on your technique. Blade angle is probably the culprit, although you might be going too fast as well. Until you are getting better results I would suggest that you stick with shaving the sides of your face (sideburn to jawline) with your straight. Try a little flatter blade angle, say, about two spine widths or so.

Cruise through the Beginner section, you're not the only one to encounter this problem.:)

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Originally Posted by Elendil

All great advice. I have four blades, all sharpened by Lynn. None have passed the HHT. But they are all wicked sharp and shave great. I am convinced it is my fine hair!

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Ah, good point! My hair is pretty fine, so maybe that's the issue.

Anyway, as I said - no offense to Lynn intended at all. As my Japanese teacher used to tell us: 'Even monkeys fall from trees', ie, even experts take a tumble from time to time. So I thought I'd ask.

Many thanks to all who have replied - I'll do nothing other than work on technique. :D

It will come, don't worry.

Happy Shaving

Your not alone ,i have got some razors in the past that were supposed to be shave ready,and were not up to snuff.And after a year into it you know what a razor should shave like,on the other hand being a noob and not knowing the diff you could be saying these straights suck and go back to the Mach 10000000 and another lost customer.Iam sure who ever honed it would make it right,were only human.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjEKt5Izwbo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYyxK2vGyVw

I purchased my second new razor that was honed by Lynn. I thought I would give it a go with no stropping. It did not cut well. It seemed to pull slightly and was not to comfortable. I then gave it a good propper stropping and it shaved like a hot knife through butter.

I went through the same thing as you when I starts some months ago. i cursed the the blade and blamed everything but my own hand. I ended up buyign a stone, trashing a new dovo, cutting the living S**T out of my self. I took a week off (let my pride and face heal) and read tons of SRP WIKI. I then rehoned my blade and then started shving at night so I hand no rushing. I had all the time in the world and time to truely look at my angle, my beard direction, and preshave rituals.

Stick with it! it will all pay off and (at least for me) I felt I grew a little myself. Good luck and and happy shaving!!

Of course thats just my 2 cents and thats about what its worth :gl:

Hey Jeff 47. +1 on all the advice. I really dont think it was the honing. What does your pre-shave prep consist of ? This was not mentioned earlier. 1. Did you shower right before your shave? 2. Did you use a hot towel? 3. Did you use a pre-shave oil? 4. What type of shave soap, cream do you use? 4. Did you use a brush to lather? 5. After lathering, did you use a hot towel over the fresh lather, and then re-lather? The addition of these pre-shave preps, or steps have greatly improved my shaves. Also, your face has to get used to your new shaving routine. I was using a DE razor before I started str8 shaving, your face needs time to adjust. one more thing, do not neglect your post-shave procedures as well. What are your pre, and post-shave preps consist of? If you care to share them? Stick with this, it will come. Goodluck. :gl:

Jeff, you are exactly in the place I was 2 months ago. I had to check the name of the poster of this thread because it was exactly what I had experienced. I'll tell you for me it was the Indian not the arrow.
Patience, practice and belief in your ability to improve, that is all you need.
The 2 razors I had honed by Lynn are much better shavers today than they were 2 months ago. The only thing that is different is the experience of the guy in the mirror.

Thanks to everyone for your comments and encouragement. I'm really blown away by the response in such a short time!

I had a much better experience today: First, I had shaved the night before so I had less stubble to attack. I carefully stropped the razor, and really focused on the angle. It worked much better. One thing that feels weird is that as I'm tightening the skin around my sideburns, my shaving hand blocks my view of the mirror.

Preshave: Shower, then Edwin Jagger cream with my best Rooney brush. I left the lather on my face while I stropped. I do have shave oil - I'll try that next time.

Post-shave was Burt's Bees. I also sometimes use Tend Skin.

STRAIGHTRAZOR13: I didn't think of the hot towel as I relathered - that's a good idea and I'll try that. Also, my water isn't *super* hot. I'd really rather not turn up the water heater just for shaving and pay for it 365 days a year.

One annoyance I have is a very small bathroom with no counter. It's hard to get everything balanced 'just right' on the sink.

Of course, it still seems very awkward and I'm looking forward especially to seeing the results on my neck, when I get to that point. That's always been my problem area and I am rarely satisfied with my shave there, whether I'm using the Mach 3000 or a DE.

A question: I was taught with a DE to never wipe the blade to dry it, as it would dull it. I was a little surprised to see Lynn wiping the blade dry during his shave. Is this concern not a significant one for a SR?

From what I understand, DE blades often have coatings on them that make them sharp/smooth. Wiping DE blades can remove the coating and mess up the blade.

A straight should be wiped dry to prevent rust/corrosion. I usually do a brief strop on linen as well to help dry the edge

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Originally Posted by jeff47

STRAIGHTRAZOR13: I didn't think of the hot towel as I relathered - that's a good idea and I'll try that. Also, my water isn't *super* hot. I'd really rather not turn up the water heater just for shaving and pay for it 365 days a year.

One annoyance I have is a very small bathroom with no counter. It's hard to get everything balanced 'just right' on the sink.

Of course, it still seems very awkward and I'm looking forward especially to seeing the results on my neck, when I get to that point. That's always been my problem area and I am rarely satisfied with my shave there, whether I'm using the Mach 3000 or a DE.

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Glad to hear your shave was better. If you are worried about the water bill or electric bill going up there is always Cold Water Shaving.

Other than that the water does not have to be Super Hot. Warm water out of the tap is more than enough for a good shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jeff47

A question: I was taught with a DE to never wipe the blade to dry it, as it would dull it. I was a little surprised to see Lynn wiping the blade dry during his shave. Is this concern not a significant one for a SR?

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DE's, as stated by Jimmyfingers, have a coating placed on them from the manufacturer to help in the shaving process for the razor.

Straights do not have this coating and there for need to be dried so the metal they are made of does not corrode/rust. A swipe with some TP or a tissue should be good, just make sure you don't get the scales wet. You can then let them dry in the open position before putting away.

I dip mine in rubbing alcohol to help displace the water from rinsing and coat it with some Mineral Oil after it dries for about an hour.

Hi Jeff47. I'm glad to hear your str8 shave went better today. Your shave prep, seems good. I understand about the hot water bill. You can always start your hot towel with hot tap water. Then put it in a microwaveable bowl, and nuke it for 5 to 10 seconds, or until hot, lid the bowl, then start your shave prep. Just an idea. I think your going to improve with time. You already have had a better shave, a day later. You may not need to hot towel. I just love the hot towel, imho.

Echoing from above, I think your first WTG pass should typically be with the blade almost flat on your face. After that, relather and shave WTG again, but with the blade at about 30 degrees.

Starting my first WTG pass at 30 degrees works for some portions of my face. For the tougher parts, no way! I have to start flatter.

Thanks - I agree about the angle for sure. It's hard to judge, and it does getting used to the feel of it. I'm feeling pretty good about doing my cheeks.

What's the magic to getting started on the chin & lip? It feels hard to get the blade 'started'. Once it's moving, I'm usually OK (maybe because I'm at the right angle, etc) but getting the blade moving there seems much harder.

I know I shouldn't rush things and stick to one part of my face, but it's so hard to get a new tool and not try it at least once!