Beginner ATG shaving

Hey guys.

I've shaved about 20 times or so with a straight now, and the experience has generally been better every time. When i shave with the grain, i have hardly any problems and i think i'm starting to get the hang of it.

However, when i try to shave against the grain, it's a different story. I find ATG shaving on my neck and upper lip very uncomfortable and slightly painful. I get lots of red blotches and irritation. This is only on my neck and lip, when i shave ATG on my cheeks and sideburns it's completely fine.

What am I doing wrong ? I'm pretty sure my razor is sharp enough, and i use a very shallow angle when shaving ATG ( nearly pinning back or blade on skin) and using light pressure. I also stretch the skin, and this doesn't seem to help.

Some say it takes time for your skin to adjust to shaving ATG. Personally I have done it a few times and end up with razor burn most of the time and the razor skipping up my neck sometimes. It is not an easy technique to get right the first few times. Keep with it and just be cautious, if it pulls any or starts to hurt just STOP.

Personally I just don't do it and am working on my stretching and XTG shaving. I may try it again later when I feel my stretching is good enough to try.

I never had irritation but it was less comfortable than wtg passes the first couple times tried atg.

It takes your skin some time to get used to a straight,(not to mention you getting used to using it) during which time going ATG can be very uncomfortable.

I waited about a month before going ATG. I found that skin stretching was more vital there than before, and restropping helped a lot as well.

I noticed(with the above) that the angle of the blade on ATG is really important. The wiki explains this nicely.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...ing_angles.jpg

+1 on the angle. I also like to use light buffing strokes on tough areas like my upper lip.

Buffing
This is a technique, mainly to be used during the ATG pass. The blade is moved back and forth in short strokes over the skin, without lifting it. Pressure needs to be extremely low. The first part of the stroke cuts the hairs and the second, withdrawing part of the stroke smears an amount of lather back on the skin, preparing for the next stroke that will cut the hair even closer. This is only useful on dense parts of the beard where thick whiskers require more than one stroke to be gradually cut till the "zero"-level. The sound produced by the razor (if it’s a hollow ground one) will guide you through the process, steadily moving ahead while making short overlapping strokes. It is best reserved as a last resort, to achieve ultimate smoothness on renitent spots.

I ATG every day - but not my upper lip. I can do it, but it's not necessary. I do a WTS and an XTG East to West and West to East. At the end I have a great shave there.

The key to ATG really is the blade angle. I drop the blade almost flat against my skin and lift slightly into the stroke. If the blade angle is too steep, you will hook onto the whisker and it will pull the blade straight into the base of the follicle, which results in your razor burn.

And remember - NO PRESSURE.

In addition to all of the above advice, I would just say that skin stretching is also a huge factor here. I didn't get comfortable ATG passes, especially on my lip, until I got proficient at the stretch.

Thanks for the info on buffing and angle guys.
Alembic, when you say lift into the stroke, do you mean i should lift the razor away from my skin towards the end of the stroke ?

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Originally Posted by CreativeBass

Thanks for the info on buffing and angle guys.
Alembic, when you say lift into the stroke, do you mean i should lift the razor away from my skin towards the end of the stroke ?

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Take a look at that 5 degree angle shown for ATG. So what I do is lay the blade flat - 0 degrees and lift the spine slightly up towards that 5 degree angle as I BEGIN the stroke, making slight adjustments to in on the fly. If I feel it hook onto whiskers I lower the angle, If I feel it skipping over whiskers I raise the angle. It should feel smoothas you make the pass. If you feel it dig, your angle is too steep.

Hope that helps.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...ing_angles.jpg

Ok - got it ! Thanks for the clear explanation. I'll give my skin a few days to calm down and will try again with those tricks

I have had the exact same issue as CreativeBass. I've thanked all the reponders and feel like I've picked up some great possible solutions. Special thanks to CreativeBass for starting the thread and to Alembic for what, hopefully, will allow me to get that "Baby's Bottom Smooth" shave that's been so elusive.

You might want to allow some time for your skin to adjust and getting the feel of a str8 before going ATG. I tried shaving ATG within the first month and had trouble and didn't try it again for quite some time. I think it was a combination of not being use to the str8 & my skin needing some time to adjust. As for your upper lip, I don't find the need to go ATG there. Because I'm able to stretch the skin so well with my face muscles & tounge, WTG gets it plenty close enough.

I hope you don't mind me hijacking your topic, but I had a question.

When I try going ATG, I keep the angle very low, but the razor feels like it's getting stuck in place. I feel as if the razor is being glued onto my face. I've never had this feeling while using a DE and I don't know what to do.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

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Originally Posted by gull

I hope you don't mind me hijacking your topic, but I had a question.

When I try going ATG, I keep the angle very low, but the razor feels like it's getting stuck in place. I feel as if the razor is being glued onto my face. I've never had this feeling while using a DE and I don't know what to do.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

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It sounds like you're laying the blade too flat and it's sticking to your skin, this happened to me a couple of times when I was starting out. I found that I had more success when I learned to adjust the angle by feel, rather than visually in the mirror. Remember that evryone's face is different, and the goal is a comfortable shave, not a text book perfect shave-- I generally have to use greater angles than those suggested in the wiki. Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by CreativeBass

Hey guys.

I've shaved about 20 times or so with a straight now, and the experience has generally been better every time. When i shave with the grain, i have hardly any problems and i think i'm starting to get the hang of it.

However, when i try to shave against the grain, it's a different story. I find ATG shaving on my neck and upper lip very uncomfortable and slightly painful. I get lots of red blotches and irritation. This is only on my neck and lip, when i shave ATG on my cheeks and sideburns it's completely fine.

What am I doing wrong ? ....

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Bass, you're making ATG passes on your upper lip? I doubt if I will ever try ATG on my upper lip! Just the thought of it makes the hairs on my neck stand on end. Or am I just being chicken?

Haha, well i always used to make ATG passes on my lip with safety razors, and it's the only way i can get a smooth finish there for the minute.

I have the same problem as gull too, the blade seems to get stuck under the hairs, and the only way to overcome this is to increase the speed of the pass, which is pretty painful

Painful is always a bad sign. stop immediately when you feel pain or discomfort.

Splash some cold water on the area, stretch and shave ATG on a small angle(just keep your spine off you skin), but it's personal, change the angle on the fly to what is comfortable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CreativeBass

Haha, well i always used to make ATG passes on my lip with safety razors, and it's the only way i can get a smooth finish there for the minute.

I have the same problem as gull too, the blade seems to get stuck under the hairs, and the only way to overcome this is to increase the speed of the pass, which is pretty painful

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I have the same issue with not getting a smooth finish unless I go ATG. Today I tried doing a hybrid XTG ATG pass and I managed to get my upper lip very smooth. Of course I still felt hair when I went in a ATG direction, but it was so smooth I didn't care.

I think that's something worth trying. No need to do a ATG pass up there if you don't need to.

On the lower sections of my neck, my "whiskers" are more like hair, and are not real tough. And, my skin is more sensitive. I had your same problem on the lower sections of my neck initially. The problem for me was that laying the blade flat was dangerous! I am a little on the skinnier side, and when I laid the blade flat, the skin would sometimes bunch up under and in front of the razor, and I would cut myself. Shaving with the blade flat or close to flat on these sections was out of the question.

(I think the above advice about shaving with the blade laid flat is good advice, by the way. But, it is a generalization, a best guess advice not knowing your specifics. For me, it wouldn't have been good advice.)

The cure involved two adjustments... (1) shave the last pass on my neck with my skin cool and dry, and (2) hold the razor at a steep angle, about 60 degrees.

You might describe my technique as almost scraping the hair off. But, because my touch was extremely light, it worked very well.

Interestingly, now, I just shave my neck ATG with a more conventional angle and way. Something improved in my touch and technique, and it is no longer a problem. But, early on, I do remember the above adjustments. And, they certainly got me by my initial problems.

Any advice on how to stretch for XTG on the upper lip? I've tried ATG both ways but still can't get close enough.

For a place or two on my lips, I both puff out my cheeks, and stretch the skin.

A couple thoughts:

-In order to shave ATG with any degree of comfort and little/no irritation your razor MUST be ultra sharp. If you only "think" your razor is sharp enough it probably isn't.

-Gradually, as your technique improves, you'll find that ATG is unnecessary for most of your face. XTG, along with good technique and a sharp razor, will provide a close enough shave without tempting the irritation that can come from shaving ATG.

The thing about stretching the lip is that you're not necessarily trying to stretch is as tight as possible, but rather, trying to stretch it in way that will make a section of it as flat as possible. For example: when I'm shaving the right side of my lip, I sort of purse my lips and draw the right corner of my mouth over towards the left. You'll just have to experiment, and find out what works for you. Good luck.

I'm really glad I found this thread, I was going to start a thread to ask how to do it.
I have seen lots of pictures and video's on how to shave against the grain, something which I have no problems with on my neck and jawline, but have so far not attempted it on the soft sides of my face for fear or getting the angle wrong and slicing into my face :nono:
I know some might say the odd nick is something of a rite of passage when using a straight, but I have had very few nicks/cuts and dont fancy a scar.
Any suggestions ?

I have somewhat the opposite problem you do my neck and chin is where I have trouble. The sides of your face should be pretty easy to do if you're already doing your jawline. Just take it in short strokes and you should be fine.

What would you define as ultrasharp and what do I do to get that edge? My razor is sharp enough to do a good job WTG but I find with ATG I have to use a little pressure to get the job done which may be the source of my discomfort.

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Originally Posted by Lane

What would you define as ultrasharp and what do I do to get that edge? My razor is sharp enough to do a good job WTG but I find with ATG I have to use a little pressure to get the job done which may be the source of my discomfort.

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I would define an ultra sharp razor as one that literally wipes hairs off your face without any discomfort, and one good test for this is how the razor shaves ATG. It doesn't have to be a full ATG pass either, it caan just be a "test spot" that you know has tough whiskers to cut. Now assuming proper technique is employed, if the razor shaves with little to no resistance ATG your razor is suitably sharp; if it tugs and pulls like mad ATG it isn't quite there. Keep it mind that a razor can shave very comfortably WTG and XTG but not ATG - this doesn't mean your razor isn't sharp, it means that it hasn't peaked at its full potential, that sense of ultra sharpness.

There are 2 ways of getting this kind of edge: through a honemeister (a good way of knowing what sharp really is) and through practice, practice, practice. And practice...:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lane

My razor is sharp enough to do a good job WTG but I find with ATG I have to use a little pressure to get the job done which may be the source of my discomfort.

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Pressure is not what makes straights shave better. This is a bad habit from cartridge shaving that is hard to drop, but needs to be dropped.

If you are having trouble with ATG, try stropping again before that pass. Adjust your angle so the razor is almost flat against the skin. Make sure you are stretching the skin in the direction that will raise the hairs up higher (stretching ATG basically), and use short, buffing, guillotine/scythe strokes.

Don't increase the pressure though.

Thank you. I ordered my razor pre-honed but I guess it wasn't by a honemeister. Know any good ones around Asheville, NC? I'd love to try a shave with what you're describing.