noob, Honing

im just getting into straight shaving an have done all my research and am pretty confident i am getting good tools for the job.

But it seems that ALL new blades need to be professionally honed.

I have a Spyderco Triangle Sharp maker that i use to keep all my knives, scissors, and the like sharp.. very sharp.. they even have a tutorial on how to hone straight blades..

Has anyone here used one of these sharpeners to hone their bade? and if so, does it do the same job as being professionally honed?

I dont have the extra fine stones for the shapener, but the fine stones that come with it get my knives to "shave sharp" even "scary sharp" when beveling.

i just want to know if someone has used this system to hone their straight blade and if was adequate enough.

Thanks!

I have that Spyderco system for many years and it does well for knives and scissors. I would not use it for razors since I don't know if it will set the bevel correctly. Additionally I think there is too much margin for error on the blade being held at the exact angle.

I am certain some of the honemeisters will comment.

I was a Chef in a past life, and have a Triangle sharpmaker. The first razor I bought off eBay, an HMC Cutlery, was near shave ready when I bought it. I worked it on the Spyderco and shaved with it for weeks. I have since bought a set of Norton stones and have rehoned that razor on it. Definitely got a nicer shave with the Norton.
I am not sure I could set a new bevel with the Spyderco.
I also don't doubt that someone else could get a superfine edge with the Spyderco. I've seen a guy sharpen a chef's knife on a block of concrete and cardboard and then shave with it.
Sounds to me like you are more experienced than I am at knives, so the Spyderco may serve you well.
One thing that is recommended by many here is to get a razor honed by one of the Senior Honers here, so you have a standard to compare to.
I have 2, and that advice was very valuable when I began honing my own.

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Originally Posted by souschefdude

One thing that is recommended by many here is to get a razor honed by one of the Senior Honers here, so you have a standard to compare to.
I have 2, and that advice was very valuable when I began honing my own.

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Welcome to SRP. The above is good advice. At least one pro honed razor. I have no experience with the spyderco tri hone but from what I've read others post it is not adequate to put a comfortable shaving edge on razors. The Norton 4/8 combo would be your best bet. :gl:

I know the consensus is to have the blade "professionally honed". To counter, I bought a new DOVO stainless, and never got it done first. I used it straight out of the wrapper and it shaved me just fine. If money is an issue, you may hold off for awhile. Just my 2 cents experience.:rock:

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Originally Posted by Gracecab

I know the consensus is to have the blade "professionally honed". To counter, I bought a new DOVO stainless, and never got it done first. I used it straight out of the wrapper and it shaved me just fine. If money is an issue, you may hold off for awhile. Just my 2 cents experience.:rock:

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I have had the same experience as Gracecab. The factory edge on my Dovo has served me well for eight months so far without the need to touch a hone.

To answer the original poster's question, the Sharpmaker's fine rods work well for honing to a shaving edge. if you prefer you can place the rods into the slots provided on the base so that they are laying horizontally side-by-side like a traditional bench stone.

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Originally Posted by JeffR

if you prefer you can place the rods into the slots provided on the base so that they are laying horizontally side-by-side like a traditional bench stone.

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(pretend thats a straight blade, dont have mine yet)

in the manual and on the DVD that came with the Sarpmaker, it says t use the stones like this and to move down the stone diagonally. they say to not use the coarse stones, just the fine, and the ultra fine... i dont have the ultra fine rods, but am planning getting them... everything else they say about sharpening straight blades is consistent with what ive been finding on here and other sites.

as for having one professionally sharpened as a reference, that is excellent advice! Having it professionally honed isn't a money issue, i just enjoy caring for my blades... its relaxing to me to sharpen them... and i dont like paying someone to do something if i am able to do it myself...

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Originally Posted by souschefdude

I also don't doubt that someone else could get a superfine edge with the Spyderco. I've seen a guy sharpen a chef's knife on a block of concrete and cardboard and then shave with it.
own.

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yea... ive heard of someone using the bottom side of a toilet seat to sharpen a knive, never seen it first hand, but feeling the seat, it seems possible... ive also heard of using the inside of an old ceramic crock pot, bottom of a coffee cup, edge of a car window....

The bevel angle for a razor's edge is considerably smaller than the bevel angle for a knife's edge. The razor's bevel angle is set by the thickness of the spine -- it needs to be sharpened and honed as flat as possible

If you can set the Spyderco sharpeners side-by-side (as in a picture above), they might work.

I've used sandpaper (the "scary sharp" system) successfully -- 1000 grit, 2000 grit, 5 micron, followed by chromium oxide stropping. IMHO, the 5 micron paper did _not_ give me a "shave-ready" edge before the CrOX stropping.

I finally gave in to "hone acquisition disorder", and bought a Norton 4K/8K waterstone.

Charles

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Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

The bevel angle for a razor's edge is considerably smaller than the bevel angle for a knife's edge. The razor's bevel angle is set by the thickness of the spine -- it needs to be sharpened and honed as flat as possible

If you can set the Spyderco sharpeners side-by-side (as in a picture above), they might work.

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I am aware of the angle difference. one of the deciding factors for buying the sharpmaker as apposed to a flat stone was the versatility... at the time i was sharpening knives, hoof trimmers, hatchets, even a machete and shop tools... its proven to be worth the investment.. im really hoping to find someone who has used it with their straight blade, if not, i'll just have to try it myself. i'm pretty confident it will do a good job, but it would also be nice to have someone's experienced opinion as well... if not, i'll just have to be the first to do a review on it! :)

The sharp maker can also be used like this...
(again, pretend that's a straight blade)

Just another consideration, shaving with a straight is not just about sharp it's about smooth as well. So you want to aim at getting an almost silken edge that actually doesn't feel sharp until you introduce lateral movement & it cuts you. If you can do that with the tools you have you will be well on the way to a pleasant shave experience. If not, well you may need to look at alternatives.

I wouldn't use one of those for a razor.

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Originally Posted by markevens

I wouldn't use one of those for a razor.

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+1 I wouldn't use anything made for a knife on a straight razor...

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Originally Posted by markevens

I wouldn't use one of those for a razor.

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is there a reason why?

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Originally Posted by red96ta

+1 I wouldn't use anything made for a knife on a straight razor...

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Aren't bench stones and water stones ect. made for sharpen knives? Tools? Razors? and anything else that can be sharpened?

This is from the manual that came with the Sharpmaker.

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Originally Posted by ShaggyChunxx

is there a reason why?

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Simply for the sake of simplicity. Sure, I suppose you can hone a razor on a 1" hone, but you increase the likelyhood that you either lift or lower the heel and contact the edge of the hone, which may roll the edge. If you're starting out on honing razors, opt for a 3" hone so you can have contact along the entire edge of the razor while limiting the rolling.

Several truisms come to mind including the fact that sharpening a knife is not the same as honing a razor, there's a different technique to it. Also, it's the hand that hones, not the hone...even with the right equipment, it takes time to develop the requisite skill-set in order to hone a razor. IMHO, it's tough enough to acquire this skill-set without making the job harder using a tiny hone. Other techniques like a rolling-X on a larger wedge would be nearly impossible to pull off using a tiny hone. :)

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Originally Posted by red96ta

Simply for the sake of simplicity. Sure, I suppose you can hone a razor on a 1" hone, but you increase the likelyhood that you either lift or lower the heel and contact the edge of the hone, which may roll the edge. If you're starting out on honing razors, opt for a 3" hone so you can have contact along the entire edge of the razor while limiting the rolling.

Several truisms come to mind including the fact that sharpening a knife is not the same as honing a razor, there's a different technique to it. Also, it's the hand that hones, not the hone...even with the right equipment, it takes time to develop the requisite skill-set in order to hone a razor. IMHO, it's tough enough to acquire this skill-set without making the job harder using a tiny hone. Other techniques like a rolling-X on a larger wedge would be nearly impossible to pull off using a tiny hone. :)

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ok... That makes sense

It sounds like you are very open, and that is important. Sometimes I find that guys with a knife background are better left alone for a while. Then, after a few months, when everything they thought they knew about honing doesn't work for razors, they are even more open to new epiphanies.

It's very possible that for you the honing sticks placed side by side might work. It's also possible that they won't. Try it and see. If someone else comes along and tries it and it doesn't work, then it doesn't work for them. No biggie.

Skill is another important dimension. I could hone a razor on the bottom of a coffee cup, but I wouldn't run around recommending it. On the other hand, I would recommend someone spending the five years of so studying and practicing honing razors, that I did, to do likewise.

It's really hard though for many of us to really comment effectively on every single unusual honing technique we see, because we push for people to succeed. It's hard enough using the correct equipment.

How secure those sticks are is important too. Because, and this is the secret to honing razors; your objective is to apply as little honing effect as possible, consistently, over and over again, a few hundred times.

that was very well put, thanks!
I actually read it a few times, you make several helpful points.

Very good points have been brought up..I'm a knife guy too. I use different hones for my knives, I use a lot of Arkansas stones with Oil. I have taken some knives to my Naniwas, and found out you can cut right into them, very easily. Coticules work pretty well for knives, as does the BBW (Belgian Blue Whetstone)

I'd get a set of Nortons, at least the 4/8k, or the 220/1k 4/8k and flattening stone. You can usually pick them up for 130.00 Add a Chinese 12k and your good to go.
Keep the spyderco system for your knives, I too think it's kind of narrow, and if your have limited experience honing razors, You could wind up with an uneven bevel.

It's always a good idea to send out one razor to get professionally honed, so you have a bench mark.

Many razors can be used right out of the box as mentioned...Filarmonica comes to mind. The NOS one's were actually shave ready out of the box, which is rare.. You also have to consider the person using it, What's their skill level. For intance, I can shave with a dull razor, it's not a great experience, but I can do it.

I'm a knife sharpener as well, and the first time I tried to hone my razor I ended up with the frowning blade. It's a thread in beginners that might have some good tips they helped me a lot. Biggest difference is how stupidly even your application of pressure has to be or it won't hone straight. Also, if you get waterstones and use them for both knives and razors be sure to flatten really well the knives seem to leave little scratches in the finer hones.