Beginners Tips: November 2010

Sorry this is so late in the month but between visiting family in Colorado, then Thanksgiving combined with an early blizzard this year I have been swamped...

"Over Honing" has reared it's ugly head again across the Honing forum...
Let's take a second and discuss this little understood part of honing, because so many things are attributed to it...

Define Over-honing:
Just that question alone gets multiple responses, what exactly is over-honing???
The best way to define it is a weak fragile edge developed by either excessive pressure or excessive laps while honing..
But what does that really mean, are the tiny chips that develop on certain razors as you get right toward the end of honing, or when you get to stropping actually over-honing??? Well technically yes they are, but only in the broadest sense of the over used term...These are caused by the steel itself and they have to be gently worked out...

True over-honing comes in the form of either a burr forming or the edge eroding away into nothing from pressure...

The best way to really understand it is to try and cause it, honest take an old razor and literally press down into it on a 1k-4k synthetic hone and really try and over hone the edge... You are going to be rather surprised at what it really takes to cause it to happen...
Once you understand what it takes to over-hone you will realize that most all of the problems you are attributing to this evil thing, are actually not over-honing but other problems with your honing...
Honestly I said this a couple of years ago and still this holds true for me..
I have never to this date, had a razor sent to me for honing, that has been over-honed not once not even close...

When it comes to honing razors as a beginner, you are 99% more likely to under-hone, then over-hone especially on the bevel set...When you get to the point in honing that you are seriously pushing the envelope at the top end of the honing cycle then you can start thinking about over-honing again...

As always please feel free to add your own perspectives here, especially the Senior members as we all have a different points of view, and the more angles that get covered the more we help the New Guys... :gl:

Yea you pretty much hit the nail on the head here. I've had some razors that were a bear to hone and I lost count to the number of strokes I did on them and never even came anywhere close to over honing. I think for most people before they overhoned they would wear out their arms. It does take effort and determination to take things to that extreme.

However having said that if someone starting out just honed and honed without much of an idea to what they were doing I guess they could overdo it but like Glen said they would probably damage the edge in many other ways which would be very obvious to the eye before overhoning became a problem.

I have never succeeded in producing a wire edge on a razor. I suck.

I may not be as proficient at honing as the above members, but I would also like to comment on this "over-honing phenomenon".

Usually when a member is posting on this topic they will just make a broad statement that they over-honed, such as "Well, I over-honed my razor last night, so what do I do now?". I would like to ask what makes them think it is over-honed? Was a microscope involved, or was it determined by tactile sensation alone? Was the razor test shaved, and if so what was it that makes it over-honed?

Generally speaking, these statements are usually made by newer members. I can say IME that if an edge "isn't quite there" it is 99.9% due to under-honing than over-honing....

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Once you understand what it takes to over-hone you will realize that most all of the problems you are attributing to this evil thing, are actually not over-honing but other problems with your honing...

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I think one of these biggest problems, already mentioned & seen commonly with stropping, is pressure. When is it safe to apply "some" & what is actually too much ? It is such a relative term, that to a newb, it usually has a totally different meaning to a seasoned honer. Maybe correct pressure is something that just gets learnt from mistakes & practice but it is inevitably part of the learning curve.

I agree with the above posts that the wire edge takes a while to develop and is usually not the problem newbies encounter. Do understand though that when you obtain the ultimate edge a wire edge may be only moments away. What hasn't been stated is that to remove a wire edge a few back strokes (spine leading strokes) will break the wire edge. If you are in doubt just perform a few back strokes and then 10 normal, edge leading strokes and check your edge. Honing using circles in place of strokes to remove metal is a good way to put the thought of wire edge out of your mind. Circles are always followed by a set of normal strokes to obtain a keen edge. Lastly forget about counting laps as a way to determine the stage of your edge unless you are honing factory new razors. Counting laps is a way to balance the metal removal from both sides if the bevel and not a gauge of when the bevel is set or the edge keen.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

When is it safe to apply "some" & what is actually too much ? It is such a relative term, that to a newb, it usually has a totally different meaning to a seasoned honer.

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This is the biggest problem for noobs being one myself regarding stropping and honing.

I started stropping and I thought I wasn't applying any pressure until 6 months down the line I had the eureka moment and obtained the feel for the correct pressure and technique(I think). I now realise that at the start I was applying quite alot of pressure in terms of stropping, I didn't realise how little pressure is involved until my muscles learned the technique and now my razors also feel the benefit with smoother shaves, hopefully my technique will improve even further.

What I would say to newbies is focus on keeping the strop and your hand still, and use the upper arm muscles to move the razor along the strop, its easier to control the pressure that way I feel, but please dont take this as fact, just my findings that have worked for me.

regards alex

+1, definately agree with that!

I've overhoned a razor once and that was an old crappy microtome on a 325 DMT. I've never even come close with any other razor.

I also agree with Joe about not counting laps, especially when bevel setting. It takes as long as it takes, even if you have to do 500 laps. Move off your 1k before the bevel is set and you'll end up with a dull razor.

First of all, thanks for these beginners tips. They come in handy for more experienced users as well.

As to the over honing, I have found from using a usb microscope that my biggest problem (and I think many other straight razor users problem) when honing is not going far enough on the bevel setting. Just that little bit more I should have done on the 1k is the same as a number of hours on the higher grits.

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Originally Posted by ndw76

Just that little bit more I should have done on the 1k is the same as a number of hours on the higher grits.

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Unfortunately, more often the hours on the higher grits end up being not only a waste of time, but also useless, until going back to the 1k and starting over.

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Originally Posted by ndw76

First of all, thanks for these beginners tips. They come in handy for more experienced users as well.

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Amen. You never, ever quit learning!

Thanks for this post Glen. I was worried that I may be doing this to my Red Injun. You have put me at ease, considering our discussion elsewhere.