God, It's Hard!

Today is 3rd day of my straight razor experience(all after showers) and it's still blood everywhere. I honed the razor using Turkish Oil Stone and then I've got an original Arkansas but I guess it turned out less fine than the TOS. Anyway, I managed to get a clean edge and used a good leather belt as the strop. It never passed the hanging hair test but it was as sharp as double sided I guess. I also have a razor used with the half of the double sided. I use it to check if my straight was sharp like it. I mostly cut my self with this bloody double sided though :)

Anyway, I've just ordered 4K/8K Norton from Leevalley(it costs $48 to ship to Turkey :)) I hope I'll be able to get it sharp enough to get a shave like you guys talk about.

I apologize, because I may not be understanding you completely.

Hmmmm...Sharp as a DE razor? I'm assuming that's what you mean. Well, if it's that sharp, you should be good to go, Don't worry about the hair test. How's your angle, and pre shave prep...?

I don't know that I'd shave off an Arkansas stone, but that's me...I'm sure some have...

Hi zib,

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It's because I'm confused too. I used this crappy handler for the double edge and it might have been quite old. Here's the razor. Cuts(I hope it doesn't leave scars) I have is not because of the angle, it's the edge(called toe i suppose) of the razor, i'm sure it's supposed to be dull or I couldn't crack it where it should be cracked before inserting into the handler. I used it when I feel like I can't get any whiskers using my straight razor.

I'm in deep dirt i guess :) but I'll carry on because I'm in love with this straight razor. It's so beautiful!

On the DE blades I'm not familiar with that brand. That place where you bought them also carries Derby, Merkur and Wilkinson. I've shaved with those and they are decent. If you can find some Feather blades are very good IME. The Norton is probably more suited to straight razors than what you've been using. You might consider buying a shave ready straight from a known vendor or sending yours out to a honemeister.

Thanks Jimmy,

The problem is, there's almost nothing on straight razors in Turkey anymore. No honemasters, no strops, no community. I've been looking for them for a while but the closest I get is knife lovers community and knife sharpeners who really don't care about shaving. Turkish Oil Stone is quite sufficient for these guys. I need to get everything online and as I mentioned even only shipment is quite a cost. There are no shave ready straight razors around too.

I don't know, maybe I should take the risk of ruining the razor by taking it to a knife sharpener(they all use some kind of machine with abrasives). I didn't like double edges at all(because of the width) probably I'm not gonna use them later.

Now I know a few people have posted about getting really good straight shaves in Turkey from barbers. You might investigate and see if you can find a barber who does them and maybe he can give you some advice.

Please, do yourself a favor and send your razor to be sharpened by a pro.

Getting a good shave with a straight is not just reliant on a sharp blade, but also on technique. The last thing a beginner needs is a razor that hasn't been properly sharpened, as just trying to get the basics down will be hard enough.

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Originally Posted by fatcatmehmet

I don't know, maybe I should take the risk of ruining the razor by taking it to a knife sharpener(they all use some kind of machine with abrasives).

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Oh please don't do that. The sob story you have now will be nothing compared to what will happen then. I'm afraid your only real option is to send it to a honemeister, but you'll at least be glad that you did. Once properly sharpened you can get some pastes and a paddle strop and keep that razor in trim for quite some time.

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Originally Posted by xman

Oh please don't do that. The sob story you have now will be nothing compared to what will happen then. I'm afraid your only real option is to send it to a honemeister, but you'll at least be glad that you did. Once properly sharpened you can get some pastes and a paddle strop and keep that razor in trim for quite some time.

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What the masked man said I say.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Now I know a few people have posted about getting really good straight shaves in Turkey from barbers. You might investigate and see if you can find a barber who does them and maybe he can give you some advice.

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Yes all the barbers use straight razors with disposable razors. None of them hones or sharpens. My barber really surprised when he saw my straight razor. He never used one :)

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Originally Posted by markevens

Please, do yourself a favor and send your razor to be sharpened by a pro.

Getting a good shave with a straight is not just reliant on a sharp blade, but also on technique. The last thing a beginner needs is a razor that hasn't been properly sharpened, as just trying to get the basics down will be hard enough.

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I'm sure I'm lacking skills and technique too. I'm not properly stretching my skin. I'm practising on it.

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Originally Posted by xman

Oh please don't do that. The sob story you have now will be nothing compared to what will happen then. I'm afraid your only real option is to send it to a honemeister, but you'll at least be glad that you did. Once properly sharpened you can get some pastes and a paddle strop and keep that razor in trim for quite some time.

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Well, unless I can't find a honemeister in Turkey I guess it's not an option for me. But I'll not take it to a knife sharpener too. Worst case is I'll do it as good as I can when my 4K/8K norton arrives(probably next week).

Do you think I should order anything else from this list? Since I pay the shipment for norton already, I can a few other items from this vendor.

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Originally Posted by fatcatmehmet

Do you think I should order anything else from this list? Since I pay the shipment for norton already, I can a few other items from this vendor.

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A 1k stone might be needed if the bevel isn't set. My life is much easier since one was given to me.

Thanks, but I've got a Turkish Oil Stone. They say it's around 1200 grit. I suppose it does the trick.

Hi FatCatMehmet,

From your list I'd recommend the 8" diamond hone, 325 grit/1200 grit (item # 70M04.10). You'll need the 325 grit to lap (flatten) your new Norton stone and chamfer its edges, and as others have posted, it's good to have something in the 1000 grit range for setting the bevel before you go to your Norton. These are two important grits to have; you're lucky you can get them on one hone. Don't use the 1200-grit side to lap your Norton; you can wear the diamonds off the base that way.

If you haven't yet, read about honing in our Wiki. It's too bad you have so much trouble finding supplies locally. In the U.S. we find a lot of our razors in antique stores. The really lucky among us also find good hones.

About your cuts... if your razor isn't sharp enough you might be pressing too hard to make it shave, and that can turn it into a flesh-eater. On your with-the-grain passes, try only to wipe the lather off with the blade. That's all the force it should take to shave with the grain. If it takes more, wait for your hones to arrive, study the Wiki, and don't try the straight again until it's as sharp as it should be. Have a barber shave you, and pay attention to how much pressure he uses, how he changes direction on different parts of your face, how he makes lather, all that stuff. It's a great learning opportunity.

Here are the Wiki sections I recommend, in order:

Beginner's Guide to Honing
Strokes for Honing a Razor
Bevel-Setting in Theory and Practice
Sharpness Tests Explained
Pyramid Honing Guide

Then as a review and to exercise all your new knowledge,

Lynn Abrams on Honing

This last one assumes you already know a fair amount about honing. If you climbed to a mountaintop with questions about honing, it's Lynn who would be there to answer them.

If you follow the Pyramid Honing Guide and use the correct pressure of blade on hone (light, just like shaving), you'll get good results.

We have members in the UK who might be able to hone for you, if that makes shipping cheaper or easier.

What is the razor you are using?

Best wishes and good luck!

roughkype, thank you very much for the detailed advice. I'll follow it through. Just one thing though, I've got a Turkish Oil Stone and an Arkansas Stone(I guess it's the hard one but seems less fine than my TOS, it's pinkish) so do I still have to get diamond or 1k stones? 50/220 grit is also available in knife shops in Istanbul.

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Originally Posted by fatcatmehmet

roughkype, thank you very much for the detailed advice. I'll follow it through. Just one thing though, I've got a Turkish Oil Stone and an Arkansas Stone(I guess it's the hard one but seems less fine than my TOS, it's pinkish) so do I still have to get diamond or 1k stones? 50/220 grit is also available in knife shops in Istanbul.

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You're welcome, I'm glad it helps.

I don't know anything about the Turkish Oil Stone or Arkansas stones, except that the Arkansas stones are slow cutters and it can be hard to know what their grit size is.

The thing about the DMT brand diamond hones is you KNOW they're flat, so you know it's safe to lap your other hones with them. Perfect flatness isn't that important with the hones, but you do need to keep them clean of the metal particles. Also, most folks say that you remove as much as 1/8" (about 3 mm) from the 4k side of the Norton stone before it starts to behave. I have not done that with mine, and it's working OK for me.

If I didn't already have a 1k stone and a 325 DMT, I'd order that two sided one for myself. The fact that it's 8" long is also nice; you'll get a longer stroke when honing on the 1200 side, and it'll be easy to take care of your Norton. Since you have to spend so much for shipping, you might as well include this.

Finally, this is a pretty standard hone set for the users at SRP, so if you post with questions we can answer based on experience with the same hones.

I just searched the honing threads for the word "Turkey", and found not only a little info on your stone but also that there are a couple of other Turkish members here: kemerd who lives in Vienna, and ferroburak who lives in Ankara.

There was one estimate of up to 12000 grit for the Turkish oil stone, which would make it a good finisher. I hope yours is that fine.

Talk to you later, then.

There are very cheap aluminium oxide 180/230 grit stones for $2 around here. Would these do the trick for lapping and chamfering?

I'm really confused about Turkish Oil Stone now. Is it really that fine? I was planning to get another over 10000 range stone for finishing.

Merehaba FatCat

Just curious, where in Turkey do you live?

My family and I lived there for 2 years and we'd love to go back.

Hi Fatcatmehmet,

The 180/230 grit might be a little coarse for flattening your other stones, and you don't know if they're flat. That's important--good hones are, as you're discovering, very expensive. If you try to lap them with a stone that is not flat, you'll wear them unevenly. You'll either lap a dish into the center, or thin too much off the ends. I really recommend against saving money on your lapping hone. The DMT ones are very flat, guaranteed.

There are different systems used to refer to grit. 1200 on the FEPA scale is the same as 4000 on the JIS scale, or the same as about a 3 micron particle size. But natural stones can vary a lot. It's hard to say what your TOS really is. You could post the question in the honing thread, and see what people think of it.

The commonest AFFORDABLE finisher people use is a Chinese natural water stone, with a grit around 12000 (JIS scale, the same as your Norton). People abbreviate it as the C12K or the PHIG (People's Hone of Indeterminate Grit). Here's a vendor's link to that stone. I didn't see one like it at the site you're ordering your Norton from. There are also very fine Japanese natural stones, and antique German and English polishing stones, which can be VERY expensive. You might also consider a coticule in a couple more years.

You should post your question in the honing forum--tell what hones you're ordering now, and ask what people recommend for a finishing hone. The folks reading in that forum may not be reading in this one.

Good luck and best wishes.

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Do you think I should order anything else from this list? Since I pay the shipment for norton already, I can a few other items from this vendor.

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Some people can get a "shave-ready" edge on the Norton 8K stone. I cannot do it.

My suggestion:

Get a bar of "Veritas Honing Compound" from Lee Valley -- item "05M08.01".

Rub a little bit of that on a cloth strop (or on a leather strop -- _not_ the leather strop you use every day) -- that's a "pasted strop". Balsa wood (or other soft wood) should work also.

After finishing on the Norton 8K, I strop the razor 5 - 10 times on the cloth strop with honing compound. Then I strop on plain leather.

That gives me a very comfortable "shave-ready" edge. I use the pasted strop whenever I can't get a good edge on the razor with a plain leather strop.

You can buy diamond paste from Lee Valley for a pasted strop. But the "honing compound" is cheap, and works OK. A 6 oz (150 gm) bar will last for a lifetime of shaving.

Charles

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Originally Posted by tyesai

Merehaba FatCat

Just curious, where in Turkey do you live?

My family and I lived there for 2 years and we'd love to go back.

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Merhaba tyesai,

I live in Istanbul, in Sisli to be exact. You've just missed the best time for bluefish in Marmara. It's extraordinarily tasty due to the specific temperature of the Marmara. :)

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Originally Posted by roughkype

Hi Fatcatmehmet,

The 180/230 grit might be a little coarse for flattening your other stones, and you don't know if they're flat. That's important--good hones are, as you're discovering, very expensive. If you try to lap them with a stone that is not flat, you'll wear them unevenly. You'll either lap a dish into the center, or thin too much off the ends. I really recommend against saving money on your lapping hone. The DMT ones are very flat, guaranteed.

There are different systems used to refer to grit. 1200 on the FEPA scale is the same as 4000 on the JIS scale, or the same as about a 3 micron particle size. But natural stones can vary a lot. It's hard to say what your TOS really is. You could post the question in the honing thread, and see what people think of it.

The commonest AFFORDABLE finisher people use is a Chinese natural water stone, with a grit around 12000 (JIS scale, the same as your Norton). People abbreviate it as the C12K or the PHIG (People's Hone of Indeterminate Grit). Here's a vendor's link to that stone. I didn't see one like it at the site you're ordering your Norton from. There are also very fine Japanese natural stones, and antique German and English polishing stones, which can be VERY expensive. You might also consider a coticule in a couple more years.

You should post your question in the honing forum--tell what hones you're ordering now, and ask what people recommend for a finishing hone. The folks reading in that forum may not be reading in this one.

Good luck and best wishes.

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You know I actually discovered that my TOS weren't flat after your post. I rubbed the aluminium oxide stone over it because it's artificial and I checked it on a paper lying on flat glass surface. Anyway, when I rub it on TOS, I got a pattern of dust, not everywhere on the surface got the dust. Especially corners of the stone didn't show any sign of wearing. I've got friends working for natural stone companies like this. I guess I can ask them to flatten my stone in their work shop. They've got machines to fill and hone the stone tiles.

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Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

Some people can get a "shave-ready" edge on the Norton 8K stone. I cannot do it.

My suggestion:

Get a bar of "Veritas Honing Compound" from Lee Valley -- item "05M08.01".

Rub a little bit of that on a cloth strop (or on a leather strop -- _not_ the leather strop you use every day) -- that's a "pasted strop". Balsa wood (or other soft wood) should work also.

After finishing on the Norton 8K, I strop the razor 5 - 10 times on the cloth strop with honing compound. Then I strop on plain leather.

That gives me a very comfortable "shave-ready" edge. I use the pasted strop whenever I can't get a good edge on the razor with a plain leather strop.

You can buy diamond paste from Lee Valley for a pasted strop. But the "honing compound" is cheap, and works OK. A 6 oz (150 gm) bar will last for a lifetime of shaving.

Charles

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Thanks Charles, I've added the item. I hope they haven't shipped the norton already.

If you want me to I'll hone your razor for you for the cost of return postage. Just drop me a PM if you are interested! :)

Hello again,

You can see how far out of flat your stone is by drawing a grid across it with a pencil, then grinding it against a flat stone. You can see where the grid is rubbed away and where it stays.

You're lucky you have friends who can mill stones--that'll help you.

I remember from an earlier post that you are stropping on a belt. If you want to use a pasted strop, I'd recommend putting the paste on balsa wood. If you do a lot of stropping with abrasive, you can put some strange wear on the blade. I think having the abrasive on a nonflexible surface helps reduce that wear. It's kind of like you've built your own hone. Google "Balsa Hone" or search for it here on SRP.

Good luck!

Thanks guys!

I received the norton and the honing compound. Honed as instructed and stroppped my razor. And voila! My first proper shave. Well, it's not perfect and when I splashed gilette's alcohol based aftershave felt like fainting of pain.

There is one problem though, as many of you warned me, I guess I damaged my blade. When ı put it on the stone, it's tip is slightly off the surface. Very little but still not good right? And it's only one side. Maybe I applied too much pressure. Anyway, it's sad but shave must go on. I've seen brand new Muhle brand razors in one of the shops. it's around €80. Some other place has ERN.

Congratulations!

It is possible that the razor's blade is slightly warped -- not your fault. Some razors come warped from the factory, especially "vintage" (old) blades.

You may be able to use "rolling strokes" to sharpen the part of the edge that's off the stone. Check the Wiki:

Rolling X stroke - Straight Razor Place Wiki

. . Charles

Yes it's a vintage Kron-Punkt. Rolling X seems difficutle, better start practice with a dummy :)

Can you post a picture of your razor and your Turkish oil stone? I'm curious to see them.

If you didn't get a DMT hone, you can lap your hones on wet sandpaper stuck to a flat surface--a piece of glass or a flat polished stone from your friends at the tile mill.

Good luck with it all!

Sure I can, here they are(in order:my straight razor, TOS, Arkansas Stone, Pasted strop as instructed in Wiki, Balsa with rubbing compound, very good quality leather belt :), pure badger brush, crappy straight razor with disposable, my straight razor's edge on norton 8000):

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/3...e001fnq.th.jpg http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2...ge002je.th.jpg http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7...ge003sk.th.jpg http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/5...ge005yo.th.jpg http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4...e006mhr.th.jpg http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6...ge007aa.th.jpg

continues:
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5...age008i.th.jpg http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5...ge009mh.th.jpg http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1838/image010mx.th.jpg http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7...ge011nl.th.jpg http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9337/image012dk.th.jpg http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/1...ge013mu.th.jpg http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/706/image014tv.th.jpg

Continues:
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1...ge015zu.th.jpg http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/9...age016o.th.jpg http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6229/image017lx.th.jpg http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7...ge020ct.th.jpg http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/7...ge021jc.th.jpg http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9...ge022qd.th.jpg

That's a good-looking setup. Too bad about that warp at the end of the blade. Yes, you'll have too learn a special stroke to hone it.

I've never seen a TOS--looks cool. Is it slightly translucent? Your Arkansas looks gorgeous.

Best wishes