Weird grain directions!

Hi guys,

It's been 2 weeks and thanks to you, a lot has been learned. Now I can say that my side burns and tight areas are almost BBS. However, under the chin, chin, all around the mouth I have razor burns/skin irritation. Both hurts and doesn't look good. I can't figure out how many passes I have to, and for that I do 6-8 passes on some parts. I use as little pressure as possible but dense areas like chin doesn't cut without a little push. There are really weird angle that I managed to do :) not WTG, not XTG and not ATG. It's like reverse (XTG+ATG)/2 angle(not the razor angle). I find the direction by feeling the remaining whiskers and go against them. Afterwards I use alum block and Nivea aftershave balsam. Before the shave I at least get hot shower(I even apply Nivea shaving gel in the shower for couple of minutes to soften, I don't use it for shave) sometimes even hot towel. Still sideburns are perfect, but the chin and jowl are reddish, irritated. So what now?

Thanks,

You shouldn't have to do "6-8 passes" in any area. In general you will only need 2-3 passes in an area to get the best quality shave... with a few focused touch-ups afterwords. All those extra passes will certainly start to irritate the skin. I'd say focus on angles and pressure to make sure you're getting the maximum bang for your buck on each pass. Also, if the grain is changing up in an area focus only on each small area at a time rather than many big sweeping passes over the same large area.

I'd lay off the extra passes for now even if the shave isn't perfect to give your skin a break.

Definitely take some time to let your skin heal, completely, before you continue. Once you have completely healed, plan your shave before you pick up your razor. I suggest having a couple days of growth on your face. Draw a map of your whiskars, determining which way your beard grows. This will allow you to effectively plan your razor stroke. Use short strokes, and hold the razor firmly (like Jimmy's signature says), pull the skin very tight, no pressure. My strokes are never uni-directional. If i'm moving north to south on the stroke, I'm also moving west to east, maybe only a 32nd of an inch. You're trying to slice the hairs as opposed to hack them down. Some may disagree, and that's perfectly normal, but this works very well for me, and my shaves never have irritation or require any more than 3 passes.

Keep experimenting, and try to remember what you've attempted.

Good luck and keep us posted!
Maxi

Took me two or three weeks before I could stop using the DE on my chin and the hollows on either side of my windpipe which are multi directional. Even now those are my toughest areas to shave.

The sharpness of the razor and your stretching, blade angle, stroke and direction of attack, pressure, and stuff I probably can't even think of, all enter into it. Just keep improving your skills on what you can get easily. Keep working on those areas but don't worry about using your alternative shaving method .... DE or whatever.... to finish those until they come effectively with the straight. Just IME.

Jimmy's correct. I used to "cheat" myself on the problem areas when I started out.
You do what you have to do, Also, Definitely let your skin rest, if it's sore and irritated. You'll only make it worse if you keep going. Stop shaving for a few days, and apply a good moisturizer several times a day if possible...

Thank you all. I really need to stop for a few days. It's weird that I get this only with straight and DE razors. Although it's said that straight razor irritates less, I don't get skin problems with Mach3 or Fusion. I used to think that straight razors are bad so they are left behind. I had skin problems with everything using DE too. So now I believe that straight razors are great and all this classic shaving experience but honestly guys, just tell me if I'll ever get Mach3 quality shave in this experience? Can it be the material(probably carbon steel) different from Mach3 generation razors? Shall I get a Japanese razor or something?

I think I'd better take my straight razor to my barber and ask him to do the job after these burns heal.

All the best,

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Originally Posted by fatcatmehmet

So now I believe that straight razors are great and all this classic shaving experience but honestly guys, just tell me if I'll ever get Mach3 quality shave in this experience?

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Eventually you will get far better than the Mach3 experience, but it does take time. I'm a few weeks ahead of you and I can say that I'm now starting to consistently get shaves that are better than what I was getting with cartridge razors with little to no razor burn anywhere. However, in the very beginning the quality of my shaves was not as good as what I had before.

I do certainly still have "off days" where I get some things wrong and have some minor razor burn on the neck area but I'm increasingly having days like today where all is smooth and comfortable after the shave.

Stick with it... although it's probably a good idea to give your skin a rest. Even if your technique is better if the skin is already irritated going into the shave then it's going to still be irritated coming out.

I have some weird grain directions as well. I've been shaving for 8 months and just realised that just above my jawline, the grain is parallel to my jawline so I have to go horizonal for WTG/ATG and straight down for XTG.

might take you a while but, you eventually get there.

Welcome aboard! Don't get discouraged too soon. Remember you've been shaving one way for a number of years, so it's going to take time to relearn this skill using a very different piece of equipment than what you're used to. What seemed to help me the most was letting my beard grow in for a couple of days, so I could really get a good idea of the growth patterns. You can also use this time to let your razor burn and any cuts heal. I've found that applying Neosporin, or a similar antibiotic ointment to the razor burned areas really speeds the healing process along

The only thing that I want to add to what's already been said, is that for now, try to forget about getting that BBS shave. For these first few months your focus should be totally on developing and perfecting your technique. Work on lather building, correct blade angle, and skin stretching. As your technique improves, so will the quality of your shave, all the while decreasing skin irritation. For now, you should limit yourself to 3 (max) high quality passes, as opposed to 6 low quality ones. After your technique is sound, you may want to add another touch-up pass. But for now, just leave it alone.

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Originally Posted by gimpyalex

I have some weird grain directions as well. I've been shaving for 8 months and just realised that just above my jawline, the grain is parallel to my jawline so I have to go horizonal for WTG/ATG and straight down for XTG.

might take you a while but, you eventually get there.

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Yes, actually same for me! It's almost parallel to jawline. And it's physically not possible to pass something straight through a concave surface :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LAsoxfan

Welcome aboard! Don't get discouraged too soon. Remember you've been shaving one way for a number of years, so it's going to take time to relearn this skill using a very different piece of equipment than what you're used to. What seemed to help me the most was letting my beard grow in for a couple of days, so I could really get a good idea of the growth patterns. You can also use this time to let your razor burn and any cuts heal. I've found that applying Neosporin, or a similar antibiotic ointment to the razor burned areas really speeds the healing process along

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I haven't heard about Neosporin. Thanks for advice. Actually one of the big problems is to have those irritated areas have acnes. I like alcohol based aftershaves a lot but I stopped using them. Because they leave the face dry and absolutely no solution for the acne kind of infections. But I miss the sensation :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chay2K

The only thing that I want to add to what's already been said, is that for now, try to forget about getting that BBS shave. For these first few months your focus should be totally on developing and perfecting your technique. Work on lather building, correct blade angle, and skin stretching. As your technique improves, so will the quality of your shave, all the while decreasing skin irritation. For now, you should limit yourself to 3 (max) high quality passes, as opposed to 6 low quality ones. After your technique is sound, you may want to add another touch-up pass. But for now, just leave it alone.

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Thanks. No looking for BBS for a while and cheated finishes with Mach3 :) I hope it's the skill and gets resolved in time.

Hello again,

After resting my face for a few days, I've taken my straight razor to my barber and asked him to shave. Well, he said that my razor is not shave ready. Actually, I even managed to pass hanging hair test after I get the norton he said the razor is in terrible sharpness. and he switched to a disposable straight. I guess he was, the disposable one went much smoother and with less noise. He also advised that I shouldn't go ATG for a while. He didn't go either. He also advised not to use balsam for a while just alum block and maybe cologne. Anyway, it seems the problem is my honing inability. I'll keep on trying...

Just my two cents:

I've been shaving with just my straight since mid-November, and I can honestly say that although I was having similar problems to yours- pulling, lots of razor burn and nicks, and generally not very close shaves in the chin and neck area- it really does get better! I've got very coarse, curly hair with crazy swirling grain around my neck and chin, so I feel your pain. I've found that, as previously mentioned, blade angle is crucial ! This is definitely hardest to figure out in the area at and below the chin, but with a fair bit of trial and error (and by error, I unfortunately mean nicks, burn and general discomfort at times), you'll find the angle that works best for you.

Also, just the tiniest sideways motion while making an upward or downward pass seems to do wonders. I think this is called "scything" (feel free to correct me on that folks, lol), and usually isn't recommended to beginners, but if you're super careful it's worth a try. Just move the razor very, VERY slowly, perpendicular to your stroke, with no pressure whatsoever, and hopefully you'll notice a significant improvement. Just remember, basically no pressure; scything with a razor that's good and sharp WILL give you a lovely little gash if you're too heavy-handed!


Oh, and your barber's advice about ATG passes is spot on ; I started with ATG passes right from my first shave, and it was hellish until my face began to adjust to the straight. His advice about the aftershave balm I have to disagree with, however; I use the same balm you do, and I find it's the only thing that really helps when I do get some burn. My post shave routine goes like this :

Rinse with hot water
Splash of cologne\aftershave
Rinse with cold water
Apply aftershave balm on top

This routine seems to reduce my razor burn a whole lot, because the aftershave does a lovely job disinfecting everything while my pores are still open, then the cold water shuts them and lets the balm do it's work. Neosporin works wonders, too!

Best of luck, big fella ; keep at it, and keep us posted !

Thanks BaggedMilk,

Is there anything like metal allergy? I got so messed up after straight shave I think there's definitely something very wrong :)

Here's the proof of my agony: :)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6714/burnzm.th.jpg

To be honest, that's probably just your face adjusting to the new method of shaving. My face looked pretty similar to that when I started shaving regularly with my straight; it's because straight shaving causes manual micro-dermabrasion (the removal of dead skin cells through friction), but sometimes causes a little more skin to be sloughed off than normal until your face adapts. Get yourself a good moisturizer and try only shaving every several days, if you can ; worked wonders for me! Hopefully your face will adjust quickly. :)

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Originally Posted by fatcatmehmet

Thanks BaggedMilk,

Is there anything like metal allergy? I got so messed up after straight shave I think there's definitely something very wrong :)

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Hmmm...

A lot of this is adjusting to the shaving. For starters I can see in the pic you cut yourself so it's clear you are still learning.

Pre-shave prep can go a long way. Make sure the lather is good. Shower before shaving. Maintain a keen edge and strop correctly. Pre-shave oil is very good for daily shavers.

A good post-shave is just as important as the pre-shave. Using the alum block even with cold water helps. A good balm will help calm any burn such as lavender. Remember to blot your face dry. Don't rub it dry!

Since you are new to straight shaving and most likely honing I would recommend sending that razor off to be professionally honed. This will be a great way for you to focus on the art of shaving and will give you a good sense of what shave-ready really is.

Also, daily shaving can leave your face with a raw feeling hence why some of us go every-other-day. Sometimes people will wait 3 days. For now, focus on WTG as ATG can be agitating to a face. For me, if I shave daily and then do a 3 pass shave I look just like you. Unless it's date night with the lady or you're in the military that requires a very smooth shave, just focus on WTG. Pay attention to how your hair grows in and try to go the same direction.

Take your time...

I hope this helps you. :)

You've gotten good advise above, and from your barber.

Scything or guillatine stroke significanty reduces pulling. Even just a little bit of sideways (and angle toward the direction of the sideways motion) helps a long way. The common analogy is cutting some french bread or a tomato. If you just take the knife and mash it straight downward, you are cutting with the most inefficient way. If you add a little angle to it, the cut is much smoother, and if you add some sideways motion to it, it is smoother still.

Adding these does increase the risk for cuts, depending on how much angle and sideways motion you add. The straight won't cut you until you are moving parallel with the blade, which, since you are in control, is easy to avoid. But the more angle and sideways motion you add, the closer you get to that parallel cut. The trick is to start low, and find a comfortable middle ground. Now days, I my razor stroke at about 45 degrees off perpendicular. (Not quite as extreme as my avatar shows).

But let me back up a bit. Usually irritation like what you are experiencing is from too much pressure, to high of an angle, a less than shave ready razor. If you try to use a scythe stroke, but dont' have the basics of a sharp razor, proper pressure, and angle down, it won't help at all, and may increase your risk of cuts.

If your razor is less than shave ready then that is the first thing that needs to be addressed. Where did you get it?

If the razor is shave ready, you should first make sure you are using super light pressure (almost no pressure at all) and that the razor angle is less than 30 degrees off your face. Also, skip ATG for awhile. It requires a face that is well adjusted to straight razors, and demands better technique.

Thanks guys great advice. As for my equipment, please see >here< I've got my razor from my uncle, it was unused and belonged to his grand father.

About the shave readiness, I really haven't experienced a professionally honed razor ever. Unfortunately we don't have a straight razor community here. There's one shop which I've got my badger brush, good at shaving stuff. They recommended a scissors sharpener to me as a professional honer, they said once somebody taken him a straight razor and satisfied with the result. I don't know, it feels like a bit of a risk. The guy sharpens scissors and manicure equipment for barbers. Many of you friends offered to hone it for me but it also fells so weird to send a razor for an around the world trip :) Thanks anyway though. Maybe I should get a good disposable straight because the one I had nick my face with its edge every time I lose horizontal flatness.