Beginner with a Kriegar - Looking for honing advice

Hello everyone ~ This is my first post on the forums so hope it makes some sort of sense :p


I have been shaving with a disposable straight razor for about a year (cheap double edged disposable razors, snipped in half then placed into my straight razor handle)

Eventually I decided that I was ready to move onto an actual straight razor, so snagged a Kriegar off ebay (my mistake, I now know how terrible they are).

I quickly realized how poorly the Kriegar is/was weighted, so modified the handle myselfhttp://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._8069375_n.jpg
The blade/handle are now weighted perfectly in my opinion, leaving me only with the problem of getting the blade shave ready.


I have considerable experience with sharpening knives, and in regard to hones have the following...
2x sided diamond sharpening stone - (estimated 250 & 800 grit)
Fine Arkansas - (estimated 900-1000 grit)
King Icebear (6,000 grit)
Chinese Natural Stone (12,000 grit)

I am also aware the recommended beginner's hone is a 4k/8k norton, but I can't afford one right now so am trying to do it with these hones.

I have read through all of the honing tutorials on this site, along with the stropping instructionals, but honestly can't get my Kriegar's blade shave-ready.


I have honestly spent about 5-7 hours sharpening this razor (it had no edge at all, I had to create the angle and everything, took forever), ending with pyramiding with my 6k/12k hones, but still nothing.

The very base of the blade has a short length (est 0.5cm) that can pop hairs off my arm rather smoothly, the rest is quite sharp, but I can't get the rest of the blade to even strip hairs off my arm.


My question here is...

Am I having difficulties getting my Kriegar shave-ready due to the hones I have access to (limited assortment)? Assumed poor honing technique? Or are Kriegars really just that terrible?

Any help is appreciated, thanks everyone

Kriegars are that terrible. Be sure to check out our list of brands to avoid.

Although at least you got some experience messing with the handles (scales). Keep an eye out in the razor classifieds for an affordable shave-ready razor and then you're really be ready to go, or go with a new Dovo, Boker or custom razor.

Welcome to SRP. I have no personal experience with the Krieger so I cannot say for sure, but I have heard that they really are that terrible and that may be the problem. :shrug: As for the hones, I have no experience with those save for the Chinese 12k but from the grit ranges you listed you might do alright with them if the razor was made with quality steel.

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Originally Posted by commiecat

Kriegars are that terrible. Be sure to check out our list of brands to avoid.

Although at least you got some experience messing with the handles (scales). Keep an eye out in the razor classifieds for an affordable shave-ready razor and then you're really be ready to go, or go with a new Dovo, Boker or custom razor.

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:'( This is what I was afraid of ~ I'm a college student with a rather limited pool of money (thus why I snagged a Kriegar despite its poor reviews)

Do you think if I spent enough time on it and tried re-establishing an edge once again it would be possible to make it shave-ready? Or simply, Kriegars are THAT bad haha...



Also... I have a large interest in sharpening steel - from what I've been reading, it seems steel ranges within a spectrum from hard to soft.

Harder steel being more difficult to hone, but maintaining an edge for longer.
Soft steel being honed more quickly/easily, but losing its edge rather quickly.

If this is the case, couldn't you just keep honing away at a Kriegar until you established an edge eventually? (unless it is an extremely soft metal incapable of holding an edge)

-Also... If this hard/soft steel issue is the case, could one theoretically make any piece of steel as sharp as a TI / Dovo? Or is there something to the steel that I am missing? (high carbon content / tempering process or something)

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Originally Posted by shattersoul23

:'( This is what I was afraid of ~ I'm a college student with a rather limited pool of money (thus why I snagged a Kriegar despite its poor reviews)

Do you think if I spent enough time on it and tried re-establishing an edge once again it would be possible to make it shave-ready? Or simply, Kriegars are THAT bad haha...



Also... I have a large interest in sharpening steel - from what I've been reading, it seems steel ranges within a spectrum from hard to soft.

Harder steel being more difficult to hone, but maintaining an edge for longer.
Soft steel being honed more quickly/easily, but losing its edge rather quickly.

If this is the case, couldn't you just keep honing away at a Kriegar until you established an edge eventually? (unless it is an extremely soft metal incapable of holding an edge)

-Also... If this hard/soft steel issue is the case, could one theoretically make any piece of steel as sharp as a TI / Dovo? Or is there something to the steel that I am missing? (high carbon content / tempering process or something)

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Well I'm far from an expert at honing, but I believe the general consensus is that the cheaper razors on that list are inconsistent and brittle and just infuriating to sharpen. Cut your losses, which shouldn't be much. If it helps, I started out with a Master USA as a gift -- probably the same razor with a different name stamped on it.

I'd definitely say to go with a shave-ready razor first from someone who knows how to hone razors. This gives you two things; first, the obvious shave-ready razor to shave with and second, after that first shave you'll have a baseline for when you try honing on your own. It's good to know how a razor should feel first.

Another good bit of advice is to avoid eBay when you're starting out, which I know is hard when you're trying to get razors on the cheap. Lots of variables regarding manufacturer and what sort of shape the razor is in. You need to know how to spot things like celluloid rot, chips, tiny cracks and hone wear, all of which can render a razor useless.

I don't have any experience with them, but from discussion I've read here the metal used is such an inferior quality that getting a shave ready edge on one is near impossible, and even if you did get a shave ready edge, it would still deteriorate so quickly while shaving that you couldn't complete a shave comfortably.

If you want a razor on the cheep, check out whipped dog or holly4pirating. Both have razors around 30 bucks and will come with a shave ready edge.

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Originally Posted by shattersoul23

:
Also... I have a large interest in sharpening steel - from what I've been reading, it seems steel ranges within a spectrum from hard to soft.

Harder steel being more difficult to hone, but maintaining an edge for longer.
Soft steel being honed more quickly/easily, but losing its edge rather quickly.

If this is the case, couldn't you just keep honing away at a Kriegar until you established an edge eventually? (unless it is an extremely soft metal incapable of holding an edge)

-Also... If this hard/soft steel issue is the case, could one theoretically make any piece of steel as sharp as a TI / Dovo? Or is there something to the steel that I am missing? (high carbon content / tempering process or something)

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It's not just hardness there's also carbide (crystal) structure in the steel too. Think of the carbide size as being similar the megapixels in a camera - a 10 MP camera can get far sharper images than a 1MP camera because the building blocks it uses to create the picture are smaller.

Cheap steels are processed in a way that leaves larger crystals, it takes time and effort (ie money) to process steel in a way that leaves small crystals. And this is before we talk about homogenising or tempering or forging blanks or grinding edges all of which can effect an edge.

Adding chrome to a steel alloy increases carbide structures significantly so if you are prepared to put up with the hassle of the extra maintenance carbon steel blades tend to be cheaper than stainless and are easier to get sharp yourself. Just be careful as CS will rust as soon as it is given half a chance to.

Thanks a lot for the great info everyone :)

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Originally Posted by markevens

the metal used is such an inferior quality that getting a shave ready edge on one is near impossible, and even if you did get a shave ready edge, it would still deteriorate so quickly while shaving that you couldn't complete a shave comfortably.

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Second thanks to markevens for the razor websites ~ I wasn't aware you could get e'm shave ready for that cheap o_O

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Originally Posted by Pauly

It's not just hardness there's also carbide (crystal) structure in the steel too. Think of the carbide size as being similar the megapixels in a camera - a 10 MP camera can get far sharper images than a 1MP camera because the building blocks it uses to create the picture are smaller.

Cheap steels are processed in a way that leaves larger crystals, it takes time and effort (ie money) to process steel in a way that leaves small crystals. And this is before we talk about homogenising or tempering or forging blanks or grinding edges all of which can effect an edge.

Adding chrome to a steel alloy increases carbide structures significantly so if you are prepared to put up with the hassle of the extra maintenance carbon steel blades tend to be cheaper than stainless and are easier to get sharp yourself. Just be careful as CS will rust as soon as it is given half a chance to.

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Excellent info and ty :) ~ Main concern is getting something as sharp as possible, disposable feather blade sharp xD

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Originally Posted by shattersoul23

My question here is...

Am I having difficulties getting my Kriegar shave-ready due to the hones I have access to (limited assortment)? Assumed poor honing technique? Or are Kriegars really just that terrible?

Any help is appreciated, thanks everyone

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Probably (d) All of the above :D

Welcome to SRP btw. Hope you can take a joke :)

You ask further down if it's possible to put an edge on anything. Maybe you can. I once honed a Pakistani razor to shave ready but it only lasted for about 2 strokes before the edge just crumbled. IIRC the steel in Kriegars is a very soft stainless used in furniture making so it may well be too soft to be serviceable as a razor even if you can get an edge on it. I don't even know if it's heat treated. You do need a bare minimum of durability.
I like your minimalist honing progression but everyone of those stones except the diamonds are all varying degrees of slow. I would be looking at using slurries to speed things up. You obviously have success with knives & your setup so hang in there if you have the patience with the Kriegar but I would seriously advise an alternative razor.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

Probably (d) All of the above :D

Welcome to SRP btw. Hope you can take a joke :)

You ask further down if it's possible to put an edge on anything. Maybe you can. I once honed a Pakistani razor to shave ready but it only lasted for about 2 strokes before the edge just crumbled. IIRC the steel in Kriegars is a very soft stainless used in furniture making so it may well be too soft to be serviceable as a razor even if you can get an edge on it. I don't even know if it's heat treated. You do need a bare minimum of durability.
I like your minimalist honing progression but everyone of those stones except the diamonds are all varying degrees of slow. I would be looking at using slurries to speed things up. You obviously have success with knives & your setup so hang in there if you have the patience with the Kriegar but I would seriously advise an alternative razor.

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Haha, sounds excellent :)

I'm not sure what sort of responses I'll see after saying this, but I believe I'm going to attempt to sharpen my Ken Onion "Leek" to shave with :D I don't really have much excess money to toss around, and have a separate carry knife anyways, so why not do something interesting with this one! (yes, I know it will lose all functional value as a knife, but this will be cool :D)

I'll report back in after the knife's been sharpened up to shape :) (the steel is Sandvik 14C28N stainless steel, upon a bit of reading it isn't hardened quite as much as possible, but it should do fine :D

G'luck. Dude ! Watch that point :eek:
I could probably spare you a real razor but unless you're downunder the postage will make it exe.

Give this a try..the blade isn't that good anyway but this may help...
1. Clean blade really good...
2. Bake a large potato (any kind will do) in the oven as if you were going to eat it.
3. When you take it out stick the razor all the way into it and let it cool untill there is no heat in it.
4. Reheat the potato and eat.

What I have found is that the potato has enough potasium in it to strengthen the edge to allow it to hold and edge. It may take two or three times doing this to get it to work and the potatos are good too.
(Can't hurt)
"just my two cents worth"

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Originally Posted by Razorburn

Give this a try..the blade isn't that good anyway but this may help...
1. Clean blade really good...
2. Bake a large potato (any kind will do) in the oven as if you were going to eat it.
3. When you take it out stick the razor all the way into it and let it cool untill there is no heat in it.
4. Reheat the potato and eat.

What I have found is that the potato has enough potasium in it to strengthen the edge to allow it to hold and edge. It may take two or three times doing this to get it to work and the potatos are good too.
(Can't hurt)
"just my two cents worth"

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Potato-ing a blade? This is potentially the coolest thing I've ever heard xD ~ Would you mind tossing out an explanation of how this occurs or what I could look up to figure it out for myself?

Also, know if this would work with other knives / blades too :)?

Heres the story...my Grandfather was a blacksmith for many years and when he had a blade that wouldn't hold an edge weather it was carbon steel or stainless steel he would do the potato thing. It seem to never fail. There are certain minerals in a potato that the steel will draw to and thus strengthen the edge. Don't know what makes this work but it worked for him. Grandma kitchen knives were the sharpest that I had ever known. I only knew of him using this on regular knives...pocket knives and kitchen knives.
Steve