I'm sure i'm not the first to ask this...

...so i'll try to keep it brief. i ordered a razor from classicshaving.com (a no-frills dovo 5/8), a linen/leather hanging strop (i forget which, it was also a pretty basic one), and a brush and some soap. I know i'll need a hone eventually, but i don't have a lot of money, so i figured i could get it down the road a bit when the thing needed more than the strop could provide. i'm a little worried, though, about whether it will be sharp enough at all and whether or not most people find they need to hone it before they shave with it for the first time. any thoughts, anecdotes, caveats?

Chances are that it won't be shave ready.

These two guys may be an option on getting
your razor honed.

Lynn Abrams adjustme69@yahoo.com

Joe Chandler agentjac0069@yahoo.com

To be honest having one of these guys hone
your razor will be the diffrence between success
and failure. It will be money well spent.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.


Terry

Cyrano,

The conventional wisdom is that most razors out of the box are not shave ready and typically the strop is not enough to make them so. Once properly honed, you can expect to get a fair amount of use from a razor.

Classic Shaving offers to hone your new razor for around $20. Some of the folks on this board will charge similarly.

Someone will undoubtedly suggest pasted strops as a way of getting your razor up to speed. When they do, listen to them.

Good Shaving to you,

LG Roy

i'm a little surprised that no one is suggesting i do it myself. to be honest, the whole straightrazor thing appealed to me as something motivated by the spirit of independence--not something i'll accomplish sending my razor to someone several times per year. but i do appreciate the advice. since everyone seems to agree that it won't be ready to shave, and that the strop won't suffice to make it so, can you folks recommend the least expensive, yet effective, hone for a beginner? i'm sure i can figure out how to do it if i'm willing to put enough research and effort into it. thanks again...

I asked nearly the same question and did my research before I made my purchase. Nearly all hands pointed to teh pasted strop route. ....just don't ask me how to use it yet :shrug:

http://shop.thewellshavedgentleman.c...g?categoryId=4

really? i've read a few things posted here in the help files section, if i'm not mistaken, that advised people to stay away from pastes, with the exception of yellow. from what i could gather, i decided to use an unpasted strop (i'll use yellow or olive oil to keep it smooth) and occasional honing.

A plain unpasted strop is needed for daily shaves, but a pasted strop can be used in addition to that for refreshing the edge and extending the time the edge will last between honings. (As pasted strops go, the multi-sided paddle strops seem to be quite popular, and do a fantastic job)

It's possible to do it yourself.

I did. It works. All you'd need is a good hone and a LOT of patience with torn up faces when your razor isn't sharp enough yet.

I ordered a shave ready razor from a member here (Xman you're a hero) but by the time it had gotten here I'd also gotten a hone and a razor that was just about nearly sharp enough to shave with.

It's good to have a razor to compare your own one (that you're making shave ready yourself) to. You might be able to buy one cheaply or simply get one for a loan for a while. I'm sure there's someone in your area that's send you one to use for a while.

that's more like it!!
i agree; i can do it myself. so, what hone should i order? i'd like to order one as soon as possible because i'll be really tempted to shave with my new razor as soon as i get it, and i'm sure that wouldn't be too smart if you guys are right about the 'out of box' sharpness.

: )

I would recommend the Norton 4000/8000 and 3" wide. That I think works the best at first. However might a recommend a pasted paddle strop from Tony Miller. I bought one from him about 2 months ago and I really love it. Also easier at first than a hone. Someone earlier recommend him too.

Welcome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

that's more like it!!
i agree; i can do it myself. so, what hone should i order? i'd like to order one as soon as possible because i'll be really tempted to shave with my new razor as soon as i get it, and i'm sure that wouldn't be too smart if you guys are right about the 'out of box' sharpness.

: )

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A Norton 4k/8k waterstone is generally agreed to be the best for razors (barber hone afficionados notwithstanding). I use the single grit 8x3" hones, but a 2" wide one will do the job just as well, and will cost quite a bit less. Not to discourage you at all, but please, please, buy a POS ebay special and practice honing with it before ruining a new Dovo. There's definitely a technique involved, and you don't want to ruin a good razor. Most folks recommend ordering a honing job as a way to give you a basis for comparison. If you never have one properly sharpened, you won't know what a properly sharpened one feels like, and what it's capable of. As a consequence, you'll get used to crappy shaves. I feel pretty confident in my ability to hone, but I didn't really have a clue until I got a couple from Lynn. A properly honed one will give you a nice basis for comparison when you hone your own, as you have a standard to measure up to. There is no better shave than a straight, but it takes technique, patience, and practice to wring all that performance out of one. I'm still working on it, but it gets incrementally better every day.

Joe

P.S. As far as pasted strops; they're great, but IMO they're only for smoothing up a properly honed edge, and for extending the period between stone honings. They're NOT for sharpening a dull razor. That being said, get one from Tony. (I have the 4 sided, but wish now I'd gotten the 2-sided, as that's all I ever use anyway...very soon. lol) His stuff is the sh*t, and he's a regular contributor here, so he can answer questions, and is available for advice and direction. His products are second to none, too. Oh, and never paste a hanging strop. lol

If you want to get that razor sharp by yourself then the best tools are hones. The hone that a lot of use is a Norton 3" wide
4000/8000 combination hone. They are not cheap but will lst you a lifetime. A less expensive set of classic Barber hones can be purchased from Tilly at www.redtrader99.com. She has a starter set available. They must be lapped flat before you use them. The abrasive pasted paddle strop is a viable alternative, despite what you have read in the help files. Tony Miller has them for sale, pre-pasted. Talk to him and tell him what your trying to do. He can set you up with the proper grit sizes. www.thewellshavedgentleman.com.
The easiest and fastest option is the abrasive pasted paddle strop. Learning to hone is a skill and takes some time.

Hope this helps,:)

Tilly, aka Redtrader99 also is on ebay. Here is a Lithide hone which by itself should get your new razor shave ready. This would be the least expensive route to get going. I like your
" DIY" attitude. The reason that most here suggest getting a shave ready razor from one of us is to use as a bench mark. That way you are not getting ddiscouraged with trying to learn to shave/hone/strop and giving it all up before you know what it feels like.

320001237244 - ebay #

Glen

I'll agree with Joe that a Norton is the thing to get a dull razor sharp, not a pasted paddle. A Norton is also a fast way to get a new, fresh from the box razor sharp quickly...ONCE you learn how to use it. A pasted paddle will compliment a hone or Norton and I use them exclusively to sharpen 95% of the new Dovo's I sell. There is a big difference between a new, out of the box razor and a dull eBay treasure when it comes to sharpening.

Down the road you will probably want to own both.


Best,
Tony


BTW, thanks guys for the mention

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony Miller

I'll agree with Joe that a Norton is the thing to get a dull razor sharp, not a pasted paddle. A Norton is also a fast way to get a new, fresh from the box razor sharp quickly...ONCE you learn how to use it. A pasted paddle will compliment a hone or Norton and I use them exclusively to sharpen 95% of the new Dovo's I sell. There is a big difference between a new, out of the box razor and a dull eBay treasure when it comes to sharpening.

Down the road you will probably want to own both.


Best,
Tony


BTW, thanks guys for the mention

---

Absolutely...I couldn't get by without all my gear (hones and strops) They complement one another. I wouldn't touch an ebay special with a pasted strop (until well after honing was finished), but afterwards, it does a great job of smoothing up the edge and getting the best out of my razors.

let me start by thanking all of you for taking time to respond. it's uncommon to run into a group so happy to help. i'm a surfer by obsession, and such is not the case with surfers. due to limited breaks and space in the water (especially around here), most surfers aren't exactly forthcoming with advice. let me share a something about myself:

when i wanted to start surfing older boards, people told me i was nuts, that i'd never even be able to turn an old heavy longboard, and that if i ever fell it would kill me. i've been surfing them for about ten years, now, and, in all modesty, i can handle my 10.5', 55lb. longboard (i restored an early 60's board from a santa monica shaper--got it junked for 175 bucks!) better than most of the guys out there on thousand dollar, ultra-light epoxy resin techno-crap flyers.

so maybe you can understand why i want to handle the razor honing myself. i've decided to purchase a norton4/8 3" and skip the pasted strop. i wouldn't mind practicing on a POS ebay special, as someone suggested, but i really don't have a lot of money to throw around, and i'm sure that someone, somewhere, alive or dead, has figured out how to hone on a first razor. if not, i guess i'll just shoot for being the first.

having said all that, any advice on how to avoid ruining my first razor (within the parameters i mentioned already), or just what is meant by 'ruining' (ie. is it fixable after it's ruined?), would be appreciated. no need to repeat what's already in the help files; i don't mind hunting through them myself, but if there's anything you guys could add based on personal experience, or that might be particularly useful to someone in my situation, which may not be much like some others would be awesome.

ps: there's a whole growing movement among surfers around the world now using of 'retro' boards like mine alongside shortboards from the 70's...funny how it takes people so long to catch on to good things!

I like the way you think, cyrano. I'm sure you'll be able to hone your own, even faster if you keep bugging us. Just a few ideas which you may already have thought of:
Get a shave ready razor from an experienced honer. It'll set the bar for you. I've got some. PM me if you like or check Lynn's User Gallery folder, anybody else who offers here or anyone from the Links.
Do get some ebay razors or such like to practice on before you wreck your shavers.
Do lots of reading here. The Help Files contain the collected wisdom of the ancients.

And wrecking a razor by chipping the blade badly would be unsalvageable, whereas ruining the edge with bad stropping means you go back to the hone to fix it.

I'll be looking forward to hearing about your process.

X

also there's a few video's on how to hone and things such as that. If anything like that fails one of the members might have a skype honing session simply to teach you how.

just an afterthought, someone on the boards here told me it's really not feasible to have only one razor. i have to admit, i'm not much into collecting stuff, and i was really hoping to keep the hardware to a minimum. i do shave every day with my prefab mach-three-turbo-jet-fusion-quattro-de-mayo-number, and, though my facial hair is very fine (honestly i don't even think i can grow a full beard), i was planning on doing it everyday with the straight as well. has no one been able to make one razor work every day? i've read that the razor must be left alone for 24 hrs. after use, but wouldn't that just mean i couldn't use it more than once a day?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

just an afterthought, someone on the boards here told me it's really not feasible to have only one razor. i have to admit, i'm not much into collecting stuff, and i was really hoping to keep the hardware to a minimum. i do shave every day with my prefab mach-three-turbo-jet-fusion-quattro-de-mayo-number, and, though my facial hair is very fine (honestly i don't even think i can grow a full beard), i was planning on doing it everyday with the straight as well. has no one been able to make one razor work every day? i've read that the razor must be left alone for 24 hrs. after use, but wouldn't that just mean i couldn't use it more than once a day?

---

They were most probably just joking with you. We tell this to
every new guy that joins the forum. I'm sure that any of us
could make due with only one.


Terry

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cyrano138

just an afterthought, someone on the boards here told me it's really not feasible to have only one razor. i have to admit, i'm not much into collecting stuff, and i was really hoping to keep the hardware to a minimum. i do shave every day with my prefab mach-three-turbo-jet-fusion-quattro-de-mayo-number, and, though my facial hair is very fine (honestly i don't even think i can grow a full beard), i was planning on doing it everyday with the straight as well. has no one been able to make one razor work every day? i've read that the razor must be left alone for 24 hrs. after use, but wouldn't that just mean i couldn't use it more than once a day?

---

Don't worry I think that is an old wives tale. Think about it, when straights were used exclusively most men had one. You will probably have to touch it up more often than if you had 5 or 6. I have gotten to the point were I had a favorite and would use it almost every day.:cool:

Cyrano,
Nice to hear you like the old long boards. Near the condo we rent at the beach there is a group of older 45-55ish guys who surf every morning using only long boards (and "Old Guys Rule" T-shirts). Of course being the mid Atlantic coast there are no waves but the fellows sit out there all morning anyway just hoping for a rogue wave to come in. More a social event than anything but a short board would be out of place.

Tony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

... i was planning on doing it everyday with the straight as well. has no one been able to make one razor work every day?

---

Yes, but then I blame the razor for not shaving close enough, chastise it and send it to the hone without any dinner.:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

i've read that the razor must be left alone for 24 hrs. after use, but wouldn't that just mean i couldn't use it more than once a day?

---

I was told the same thing by my barber many years ago and take it to heart. He said it would wear the edge too fast.

X

does everyone pretty much keep the spine and blade pressed to the hone as they sharpen? i read in one of the help files, and it stands to reason, that over time this would wear down the sides of the razor as well, causing the angle of honing to change as it diminished, eventually causing the razor to stop sharpening well.
also, in the honing vid on this site, it looks like the fellow (norton schick?) is only putting the sharp part of the razor to the hone, holding the spine slightly off of it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xman

Yes, but then I blame the razor for not shaving close enough, chastise it and send it to the hone without any dinner.:D


I was told the same thing by my barber many years ago and take it to heart. He said it would wear the edge too fast.

X

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so i can get by with just one, though, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

so i can get by with just one, though, right?

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You can but if history is any guide you won't

Razors are like potato chips...

-- Gary F.

...as long as i have a choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

...as long as i have a choice.

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That's my point... the idea that we have a "choice" is illusory :)

-- Gary F.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

...as long as i have a choice.

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Don't sweat it guy. There is no law in the universe that
dictates that you have to own more than one razor.

If one is all that you want, then one it shall be.
No one is going to twist your arm and make
you buy another razor.



Terry

that's good to know. getting multiple razors would be very uncharacteristic for me. i am thinking of buying a shave ready razor from someone on this site (just an el-cheapo, like 50 bucks or less), but once i've got my honing to an acceptable level, i'm going to pass it on to someone else for the same price.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

does everyone pretty much keep the spine and blade pressed to the hone as they sharpen? i read in one of the help files, and it stands to reason, that over time this would wear down the sides of the razor as well, causing the angle of honing to change as it diminished, eventually causing the razor to stop sharpening well.
also, in the honing vid on this site, it looks like the fellow (norton schick?) is only putting the sharp part of the razor to the hone, holding the spine slightly off of it...

---

i posted this earlier but i think it was overlooked or lost in the shuffle or something. hope you guys don't mind my reposting it. any thoughts?

The blade is held flat against the hone at all times! The distribution of pressure is equal from the edge to the spine and from the heel to the toe of the blade. Again, this rule always applies.
Don't worry about the angle change caused by the reduction of the thickness in the spine. What is more important is that the amount of wear be equal along the length of the spine. There is also wear on the edge itself. Some of us use tape on the spine while we are honing. This prevents the spine from wearing down. It is primarily an issue of appearance.

Generally speaking, the amount of pressure to use is only the amount necessary to keep the razor flat on the hone. The exception is when you are removing some major nicks and/or oxidised steel from an old Ebay/antique store razor. Then I use 1-2 lbs of pressure.

The videos can be mis-leading. When I have been involved with a video honing session it has appeared that the other person does not have the spine on the hone. That was not the case. It is just the visual effect of the video camera. Never raise the spine off the hone.

Hope this helps,:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cyrano138

i posted this earlier but i think it was overlooked or lost in the shuffle or something. hope you guys don't mind my reposting it. any thoughts?

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Don't worry about the angle change caused by the reduction of the thickness in the spine. What is more important is that the amount of wear be equal along the length of the spine. There is also wear on the edge itself. Some of us use tape on the spine while we are honing. This prevents the spine from wearing down. It is primarily an issue of appearance.

---

so the razor could still feasibly last a lifetime, even if the spine is being gradually worn away?

Absolutely!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by randydance062449

Some of us use tape on the spine while we are honing. This prevents the spine from wearing down. It is primarily an issue of appearance.

---

Doesn't this gum up the hone? I'm not overly worried about collecting or appearances so I hone all my razors flat. but I would worry that taping the spine would cause the hone to get gummed up and be a real pain to clean and lap. How would you avoid this and what type of tape would you use?

Cyrano, depending on where you're from, you may find some good razors very inexpensively at flea markets and/or antique stores. I got a griffon for 2 bucks that I used as a razor for practice honing on.

One of the honemeisters here gave me a handfull of junk razors to practice on also.

I've still got one left if you need a razor to practice on. It's not a high dollar razor by any means but it's a good one to start with and it can give you a decent shave when you're done. P.M. me if you want it.

If you go to flea markets make sure none of the razors frown at you or have what I can only describe as cartoon mouth. The frowning is when you hold the blade in front of you with the spine on top and the cutting edge on bottom and the center of the cutting edge is higher than the tip or heel. The thing I don't know the proper name to, the cartoon mouth, is when there's a couple spots on the cutting edge that's higher and the cutting edge looks like rolling hills or something. A smiley blade where the tip and heel are higher than the center seems to be ok, some of the guys on here prefer it.

I'm not trying to sound like I know more than the veterans here but just sharing what I've done to get by on an uncertain (self employed) income. Hope it helps.

Glen F

The tape does not gum up the hone. You will be cleaning the hone either way. I have used Duct tape, scotch tape and now electriical tape. I prefer the electrical tape. The hone does not wear thru the electrical tape.

cyrano,

Just a few words of encouragement from a relatively new guy. I started out doing this back in August and had a very similar attitude. I do my own honing and, it turns out, those years as a Scout paid off. But I started with one from one of the guys here and am so glad I did! It gave me a ballpark to shoot for and kept me actively shaving while I worked out my honing skills. I since passed that one on to a friend and have used just one razor for the past 6 months. I'll be remedying that soon, but you can absolutely do it. I think, in the end, it will have more to do with the quality of the steel and your daily care than anything else.

I also find, BTW, that when I have it well honed, I don't always have to shave everyday. Of course I often sport some form of beard, but even when I just have 'staches, I seem to be able to skip one now and then.

Best of luck, and good shaving to you!