Still Feel Stubble

I'm a beginner with just over 60 straight razor shaves completed so far. The quality of my shaves has been gradually improving thanks in a large part to the information I read on this site. At first I would use my Mach 3 to touch up but I am to the point where the SR shaves are passable for work and for the last several weeks I have been able to leave my Mach 3 in the drawer.

However, for a few days this week I used my Mach 3 to shave instead. (I was rushed and had a lot on my mind and thought it best not to attempt a straight razor shave on those days.) That's when I noticed how I can still get a much better shave with the Mach 3 than my straight razors.

I figured this just shows how far I have yet to go on my technique and one day I will achieve that superior BBS shave with my straights that everyone here talks about. So this week I have been experimenting just on my dominant side sideburn and cheek to see just how close and smooth I can get so I can know what is possible.

Here is where I am stuck. It seems that no matter how many passes I do and no matter which direction and blade angle I use, I can still feel stubble when I touch my face against the grain.

It is not the razor, as I have tried three different blades and they were all honed by Lynn so I'm sure they were shave ready. I don't think its my stropping. The razors are staying sharp, the shaves are smooth, and the razors are definitely cutting hair. (I've started wiping the razor clean instead of rinsing so I can see all those decapitated little whiskers).

What am I missing? Any ideas? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Hard to say without seeing your technique and knowing how your whiskers are. Until I became a professional tattooer I thought everyone's skin was the same. Found out , to my surprise, that it is not. Neither are their whiskers.

Skin stretching comes to mind. Experiment with that and continue to experiment with the angle of attack and the blade angle you're using in the attack. (not the same thing) Also are you 'mowing' the whiskers or slicing them ?

Slicing is a more advanced technique but it is also more effective IME. Took me awhile to feel comfortable doing it and on some areas I don't use it but it may be the solution. If you try it slice the whiskers, not the skin. No pressure on the skin, letting the razor's edge glide over the skin cutting the whiskers.

Personally, I believe that with all pre- and post-shave techniques being the same, you'll always get the best (easiest, fastest, smoothest) shaves using the DE razors, new or vintage. However, DE razors are nowhere near as fun or cool as straight razors.

Learn to live with a little stubble. It's no big deal. Besides, nobody gets perfect ATG BBS shaves every morning. For instance, I remember reading a thread not too long ago where many well-respected SRP members admitted to shaving at around 95% stubble-free, and they felt that was good enough.

My advice? Spend your mornings enjoying the many creams, brushes, razors, and splashes in your shaving collection. And be proud of your 95% instead of worried about that last 5.

Christopher

Its partly practice theres no denying, but you might also find that your straight has dulled slightly after 60 shaves as well.

When I started I used the same razor for months and dozens of shaves and it was only when I got my next shave ready razor that I realised how dull my first one had become..! Because they dull gradually you dont really notice it and its only when you go back to a freshly honed razor (or new DE blade) that you notice the comparison.

You might find a touch up helps?

The other thing is make sure your pre shave prep is really good as well. Use a hot towel and a good coat of high quality lather.

Good luck and keep us posted!

sounds like sub-par skin stretching.

also, make sure to keep a low angle when shaving XTG/ATG (about 15 degrees).

I have to agree with CJBianco on this. I always get the smoothest shaves when I use a DE. Much smoother than a straight or a cartridge razor. Some people will disagree and say they get the smoothest shave with a straight by far. Like Jimmy said, everyone's skin and whiskers are different, and therefore, the results are different.

I started getting much better shaves with my straights when I stopped worrying so much about BBS. As long as I get a nice smooth shave and have a fun/relaxing time doing it, I'm happy!

Also, I have noticed that approximately 1/2 hour after shaving, after your skin calms and tightens, the whiskers settle and what you thought was a sub par shave actually turns out to be pretty smooth.

My advice is do not obsess. Just enjoy and have fun.

Good comments, good advice. Thank you.

@ JimmyHAD: I have tried scything motion and guillotine style cutting but found it was very quick and easy way to add some decorations to my face. Since then I have backed away. Definitely an area I could work on.

@ Fbones24 and CJ Bianco: I am enjoying my SR shaves. This is definitely a fun way to shave. I will try not to obsess.

@ Stubear: I thought I could be in need of a touch up too, but I pulled out a brand new fresh straight razor I had been saving until my technique was a little better to compare and the results were identical as far as I can tell.

@ shiznix: Stretching could be a factor as well.

I'll keep you updated on my progress.

I am travelling this week so my straight is home and I'm using a Mach3. However, I find myself using the techniques learned for str8ght shaving and I am now getting much closer with the M3 than I ever did before.

Next, I noticed with my str8ght I shave much closer on my cheeks than on my neck. My neck is where I obsess over the stubble. Can't really feel it on my cheek now.

Last, I found a combination of stretching, angle and super light touch on my cheek was what worked there. Still working on the neck. It may take a blow torch.... All kidding aside, I think the light touch was what started working. It is not pushing nor even scraping. I get the blade very close, and almost let it float through the air that works. I can't seem to even approach it on the first pass (wtg) but after I have gone back it (either xtg or atg) I focus on angle, stretching and barely touching.

Good luck

One thing that made a big difference for me was switching to shaving with cold, rather than hot, water. I wet my soap and brush with cold water, wet my face with it and rinse with it post-shave. I think it works because the cold water causes the skin on your face to contract, so the whiskers are as exposed as they're going to be. There's an old barber's manual that talks about the benefits of cold water shaving and actually recommends it. Anyhow, if you're experimenting, you might give it a shot.

I will attack it from a different angle. Have you tried a dense cream, like a molle?
It MAY help your beard stand up a little more against the blade. The 1st time I tried molle it blew me away how close the shave was. Not a hot lather by any means, but it does beat a cold water shave. YMMV.

I would get that razor professionally honed, and try a lather or cream that is a little more dense.

Most of all experiment and enjoy! You will be at this a long time. :)

Reference....

http://www.old-time.com/commercials/1940's/Molle.htm

You should definitely check the sharpness of your razor, and skin stretching + proper angle matters, but after that, remember that it's shaving, not depilation!

I too get a near perfect shave with my DE and Feather blades. But the problem is that I also tend to get more irritations that way. After sufficient practice, my straight shaves were BBS, though one could argue not as tight as my DE shaves. Not a problem, since I was irritation-free.

The straight razor knows how close it must cut, and is never excessive in that matter.

I agree with what's been said here before --- forget about BBS and focus on enjoying yourself, while still getting a decent shave,

When I used cartridge razors, I could always get a BBS shave....along with irritation and ingrown hairs. That's not the case for everyone, of course....but it was a real problem for me. The result was that I shaved as little as possible.

With DE/SE razors I can get a long-lasting, smooth shave, but I don't have much fun shaving. If I'm in a hurry, I still use them.

I mostly shave with straights, though. I enjoy my shaves, and I get pretty close, comfortable shaves. There are still problem areas, where I cannot get the shave as close as with a DE, but the difference is minor.

My skin is loving the straight shaves.

@1sgtscot: That's interesting. I too have found that my Mach 3 shaves are much improved after applying the techniques learned from straight shaving. My neck is also harder for me than my face, that is why I am experimenting with my cheeks to see what works and then I will figure out how to apply it elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Fbones24

Also, I have noticed that approximately 1/2 hour after shaving, after your skin calms and tightens, the whiskers settle and what you thought was a sub par shave actually turns out to be pretty smooth.

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Yup after like 1/2hr feels like the stubb actually sucked back into my face. Especially after the alum block.

I don't think you have a problem necessarily, either with your razor or your technique. I think also that your experience is probably about average and certainly squares with mine.

I used to shave with a Brush and Soap but with a Pro Fusion. I got great shaves very quickly with that setup, certainly BBS, and with little effort or concentration. When I moved on to a Merkur 34C, I had to endure the learning curve, improve what little technique I had, and it was two weeks before I got to BBS shaves again.

When I moved on to straights, I started with a Dovo Shavette with DE blades, and now I use regular straights both honed by myself and various honemeisters. I've been at that for a month and a half and am not yet at the point that I can get a truly BBS shave. Straight shaving takes much more work, thought, and technique than either of the first two methods I used. As a result, it does take time to get really close shaves, and I'm not quite there yet.

I don't think your blade is necessarily at fault, nor even your technique. I'm not unhappy with my shaves even though I could beat them in a heartbeat with a DE or even the Pro Fusion. I started with straights not because I could get a better shave, and in fact I doubt I COULD get a better shave than I was routinely getting with a DE. Maybe I will eventually, with time. But even if the shaves are not as good, I feel like straight shaving is better for a long list of reasons, and none of those is the shave, at least at this point not for me.

I would rather work at a decent shave with a straight razor for 20 minutes than rip off a perfect one with a DE in 5 minutes. It's just more enjoyable. I think with time and practice, you'll make improvements. I've found I can live with a little stubble. It's not all about the shave, it's about the experience, the journey, not the result.

I often read things like, "You need to work on your technique." And while I always agree, I think it's important to note that the "technique" referred to is the technique for that specific razor. There is no all-encompassing, one-size-fits-all technique. What I mean is, each straight razor out there is a little different--weight, length, width, grind, point, balance, etc--and each requires a little different technique. And that's a big part of the fun. As long as you keep adding new straight razors to the collection, you'll always be learning! (And that's important to learning-obsessed INTPs like me!)

Me

This morning my results were much better. For this first time with a straight I can honestly say I have true BBS on my cheeks. No stubble detected in any direction! (I knew it was possible otherwise so many people around here wouldn't be talking about it so much.)

Here is what I tried:

I once again pulled out that straight that I had been saving. To this point I had only used it one on one cheek so far and actually never stropped it so I would have a comparison of what a good professional honed edge felt like. I used it on my right cheek and used the other SR I had been using on my left cheek and the rest of my face. As far as I can tell the end results are the the same (both gave me a great shave today), but WOW the new fresh one just glided over my face! It was awesome! And it made less noise as a full hollow as my half hollow! A touch up may be in order for my others.

I very carefully tried scything strokes and focused on stretching and light touch. I also used a lower angle ATG than I had been.

I did my ATG pass with cold water. I think this made a big difference. (I definitely have a seemingly endless supply of cold water in my pipes with this weather)

These suggestions I received really did the trick. Thank you.

Now to apply what I have learned to the rest of my face.....

@CJBianco: "So the guys at SRP suggest that in order to continue improving my technique, I need to buy lots more razors." I wonder how that would go over with SHMBO. (HE HE)

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Originally Posted by Roguepiano

@CJBianco: "So the guys at SRP suggest that in order to continue improving my technique, I need to buy lots more razors." I wonder how that would go over with SHMBO. (HE HE)

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Who said anything about telling her?

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Originally Posted by ace

Who said anything about telling her?

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+1

Or lie about the value of the razors. "Honey! I just snagged a $150 razor for only $65." Women, or at least my wife, are hard-wired for bargains. She'll dig your mad shopping skills.

(My wife just read the above...and agreed.)

Christopher

Do you Facesturbate ??? If not ,you better get Crackn. When you facesturbate you can tell which way your whiskers grow,and then attack them from the opposite direction with the blade. Each part of your face is diff, the cheeks the neck and so on. Soon the light will come on and it will all make sense, NOW START FACETURBATING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have used DE's a lot and there is no way that a DE can give one a better have than a straight. I notice a drop in performance after about 8 shaves and have to at least do a small "touch up" using a paddle strop. When you make a pass using gentle overlapping strokes if there is stubble left in the direction of your pass you razor is not keen enough.

One of the hardest things about using a straight is learning to hone to obtain a smooth, keen edge. However that is accomplished by a shaver it must be learned to be self sufficient. I can not send a razor out for honing. I have not had any razor come back that was anything much more than "pretty good" because of my beard I need "great".

I know that it is presumptuous of me but if you were to send me one of your razors I could show you what edge I shave with....it may be to keen and smooth for your liking!:D

Later,
Richard

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Originally Posted by nessmuck

Do you Facesturbate ???... NOW START FACETURBATING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Will I go blind?:thinking:

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Originally Posted by Fbones24

My advice is do not obsess. Just enjoy and have fun.

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This is the best advice I've read since I joined here.

One mark of maturity is the gracious ability to accept imperfection. In straight shaving as in everything else, we mature as we proceed.

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Originally Posted by nessmuck

Do you Facesturbate ??? If not ,you better get Crackn. When you facesturbate you can tell which way your whiskers grow,and then attack them from the opposite direction with the blade. Each part of your face is diff, the cheeks the neck and so on. Soon the light will come on and it will all make sense, NOW START FACETURBATING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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But not too much or it will give you pimples.

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Originally Posted by Belicoso

Will I go blind?:thinking:

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You will go blind,but your shaves will be better.

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Originally Posted by nessmuck

You will go blind,but your shaves will be better.

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Lol!!!

Back on topic, it took me at least 60 shaves to get bbs almost every time. After 3-4 hundred shaves I still have problem areas that always will be problem areas that take extra effort.

All great ideas here. Except the cold water shave. I've tried but I just can't "warm up" to the idea. :rofl2:

Anyway, there are 2 things that come to mind that IME helped a great deal. Please forgive me if I missed it, but I didn't read mention of light touch. A heavy hand was one of the hardest things to lose wen after getting the hang of shaving when I first converted from multi blades. It is so counter-intuitive that it seems impossible that it could actually improve your shave, but it does.

The other thing that I found is that your beard has not yet been "trained" to being shaved by a SR. It took me several months before I wasn't getting so many hot spots and weepers, even after learning to shave with ultra light pressure. When they weepers finally went away, my shaves miraculously got closer and smoother. Again, I attribute this to my beard becoming conditioned to the SR shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1sgtscot

I am travelling this week so my straight is home and I'm using a Mach3. However, I find myself using the techniques learned for str8ght shaving and I am now getting much closer with the M3 than I ever did before.

Next, I noticed with my str8ght I shave much closer on my cheeks than on my neck. My neck is where I obsess over the stubble. Can't really feel it on my cheek now.

Last, I found a combination of stretching, angle and super light touch on my cheek was what worked there. Still working on the neck. It may take a blow torch.... All kidding aside, I think the light touch was what started working. It is not pushing nor even scraping. I get the blade very close, and almost let it float through the air that works. I can't seem to even approach it on the first pass (wtg) but after I have gone back it (either xtg or atg) I focus on angle, stretching and barely touching.

Good luck

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I had the same experience w/M3s before I switched to full-time straights. You learn so much about your grain and why it matters, and that knowledge applies to almost anything you'd shave with.

My neck was a difficult area but became the easiest area at some point. I think fear was one limiter, that I was just more scared shaving the neck (and the black-diamond runs around my adam's apple) than cheeks etc. Stretching, honing, and the light touch were the other limiters. Once I figured out the right directions to stretch in, I was a little braver applying the blade. About the same time I learned how sharp a blade SHOULD be, and the light touch (just enough to scrape away the lather) followed that. Now my neck is where I like to start, to build the day's confidence for the harder work around my chin. Plus it just makes sense for me to start at the collar line and work more or less upwards.

I haven't nicked my neck yet; the little accidents (when they happen) seem confined to my chin and cheeks.

That's my experience with the neck, for what it's worth. Good luck with your own!