puma special 89

hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum (but i write on other forums under the same screen name). im a knife guy and i've spend the last few weeks doing research on here about stropping so i can further refine the edges on my knives. last night i was thinking about getting a decent budget straight razor, but i decided to hold off because there are a few knives lined up on my "must buy list" (plus 2 new kitchen knives coming in the mail).

that leads me to this post. i was driving this morning and i pasted by an antique shop. i decided to go in and see if they have any neglected knives for me to rescue and i found a puma special 89 with the case. now i don't have much experience with straight razors but this looks to be a quality piece.

does anyone know some info/history about it?

i plan on getting the edge back to perfect, but what about the rest of the blade? should i just clean it and leave it be or should i looking into restoring it?

here is a pic of the razor:

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...aspecial89.jpg

That looks like a great piece. Good one. I haven't got one but they are very well regarded in these parts. From that photo, a good clean with Maas or such like would probably do the trick, doesn't look like there's any goldwash on the blade but if there is beware, Maas will remove it very fast. I'm envious. Check out The Cathouse.

thanks man. there's no goldwash on the blade, just the name standardly etched in.

is there any special method or cloth you recommend with maas?

Very nice find. Looks to be in great shape and should clean up to be a great shaver.

I have one. They came with a rubber sleeve at the neck of the razor. All Puma's are among the best of the best so if the price is right I would grab it. I don't think I've seen a decent Puma go for much less than $200 on Eboy and often time way more.

man you got lucky on that find puma's are great razors

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Originally Posted by jimnolimit

thanks man. there's no goldwash on the blade, just the name standardly etched in.

is there any special method or cloth you recommend with maas?

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Be careful near the edge, even though it's probably not near to shave ready it can still cut through the cloth and your finger(s). Other than that, polish as you would other metals, dental floss and a toothbrush can be good around the pivot. For cloth I just use old pillow cases or what have you, something not too abrasive. Good luck.

first welcome to srp

looks pretty good even though the picture doesn't really show the important details well. the one wear may be a bit uneven and on the heavy side, and there may be a frown on the edge, or those may be artifacts from the poor photo.
but since you collect knives you're probably already aware of puma's reputation.
and no, there was never gold on that razor, the decoration is just the gray frosting thing.



btw here's how they look like when they've been well cared for:
Puma "89" 6/8 - Straight Razor Place Wiki
and
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_r...0/IMG_7844.JPG

I had a very nice Puma #89 and traded it to RayG who found it's "twin" and paired it up in a "Gentlemen's Set". They are fine shavers.

Hi, and welcome. I am also knife guy!

That is a pretty nice razor I wouldn't remove the patina, I think it ads character.
Learn how to get it shave ready and then decide. I know from experience, it's easy to wipe the years away with polish, but you can't put it back.

If you decide to, then I suggest mothers mag metal polish. Inexpensive and can put a motor polish. Keep in mind that most manufacturers didn't mirror the blades to begin with, so under the patina there may be vertical striations or grind marks.

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Originally Posted by gugi

first welcome to srp

looks pretty good even though the picture doesn't really show the important details well. the one wear may be a bit uneven and on the heavy side, and there may be a frown on the edge, or those may be artifacts from the poor photo.
but since you collect knives you're probably already aware of puma's reputation.
and no, there was never gold on that razor, the decoration is just the gray frosting thing.

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the pic i posted was from my iphone. you have a good eye because i put the blade on a couple of flat surfaces and i shined a light from behind, you are right, there is a slight frown to the blade. i figure i will correct this on my 1000 grit norton wet stone. i have a 20x-400x microscope hooked up to my computer. i will start a thread showing the progression of the razor at each stage. here are pics of the blade right now:

this is about 30x-40x.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...inaledge-1.jpg


this is about 375x.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/m...inaledge-2.jpg

here is my thought on sharpening, i will start with the norton 1000, then go to a 4000 king. after the 4000k, should i buy a chinese 12k or use 1 micron boron carbide paste on a bench strop? i figure after either one of those i will finish with 0.5 micron chomium oxide. would you recommend that as a good path?

.

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Originally Posted by dnullify

Hi, and welcome. I am also knife guy!

That is a pretty nice razor I wouldn't remove the patina, I think it ads character.
Learn how to get it shave ready and then decide. I know from experience, it's easy to wipe the years away with polish, but you can't put it back.

If you decide to, then I suggest mothers mag metal polish. Inexpensive and can put a motor polish. Keep in mind that most manufacturers didn't mirror the blades to begin with, so under the patina there may be vertical striations or grind marks.

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i will probably leave the patina on the blade, i enjoy a blade with history. what do you recommend i clean the blade with, rubbing alcohol? how about the handle? there is residue on both.

does anyone know how old this series of razors is?

the chinese hone is quite slow, i wouldn't use it after norton 4000.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I have one. They came with a rubber sleeve at the neck of the razor. All Puma's are among the best of the best so if the price is right I would grab it. I don't think I've seen a decent Puma go for much less than $200 on Eboy and often time way more.

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what do you mean by rubber sleeve? also, is there any maintenance you recommend i do to the case?

p.s. after hearing all the comments on here, i got the razor for a steal IMO. im just glad i saved it and i hope i can get it back to working the way it was intended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gugi

the chinese hone is quite slow, i wouldn't use it after norton 4000.

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would you suggest i go to 1 micron boron carbide after the king 4000? or should i use something in the 3 micron range?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimnolimit

i will probably leave the patina on the blade, i enjoy a blade with history. what do you recommend i clean the blade with, rubbing alcohol? how about the handle? there is residue on both.

does anyone know how old this series of razors is?

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You should probably pick up an 8k stone, and don't even bother with the c12k for now. That is, if you are on a budget.
Either that, or a $50 150x50mm BBW (which I attest you can get from dull bevel to shave ready), or a small coticule. You might end up with Belgian homes anyway...

But if you want to stick with artificial waterstones id suggest a nani 8k, after which CrOx on balsa should finish it.

Also, did you end up getting a good hanging strop with linen?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dnullify

You should probably pick up an 8k stone, and don't even bother with the c12k for now. That is, if you are on a budget.
Either that, or a $50 150x50mm BBW (which I attest you can get from dull bevel to shave ready), or a small coticule. You might end up with Belgian homes anyway...

But if you want to stick with artificial waterstones id suggest a nani 8k, after which CrOx on balsa should finish it.

Also, did you end up getting a good hanging strop with linen?

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i was looking for sharpening equipment that i can use with all the different blades/steels i own. would it be ok to strop from pastes after 4000-6000 grit? maybe with 3 micron, 1 micron and 0.5 micron? i originally i planned to make 4-5 leather bench strops, 3-4 with pastes, 1 without. what do you think of that idea?

p.s. i like getting the "best bang for my buck". my thinking is that for the price of one 8k water stone, i could build and paste multiple bench strops.

i was also in that same position.

you should look for my old thread, you'll see. as a fellow knife nut, i was looking for hones that'll work for everything. granted, i was into sharpening/honing before i got into razors, and based on your gear right now you are too.
I ended up getting a DMT setup the 8" continuous plates from C to EEF, which has been used on razors with sucess. I've used it some before having to send the lot to DMT for customer care (it's been 5 weeks and nothing. i do hope i get them back). But in the mean time i bought myself a BBW, which i've had for 1-2 weeks, and has yeilded excellent results. the thing about these belgian hones is due to the way the garnet content of the stone cuts, it yeilds a very smooth edge that tends to cut hair and not skin. If you get into razor honing there's a good chance you'll end up with a coticule.

I'm just trying to save you a buck or two. mainly because i've gotten to the point where i know that i really won't be bothering to hone any of my knives to the quality of edges that are necessary for a shave-ready edge. for example, hair-whittling on knives isn't near shave-ready, yet already too sharp to be useful on a knife.

So you're probably going to need one finishing stone that'll cost $60-80 that'll only be used on your razor. may as well be one that does the job well, rather than one that'll suite two purposes but not the best. A hand-sized coticule costs about $70, and once learned (it is a learning curve) can get a razor from dull to shave-ready on one stone. In comparison, a decent progression will be around $75 a stone, with 3-5 stones.



As far as strops go, i was in exactly the same boat. (look for the thread i started in the strop-section). I had bought a smallish hanging strop, but wasn't happy with it's quality. in the past i had made myself a bunch of bench strops for knives, loaded with AlOx and CrOx. I figured the same concept could carry to my razor, and having bought an entire flank of leather, i made a 16" bench strop.
The lesson learned from that was, while pretty much any leather is suitable for knives, only the finest top-hide works for straight razors. At which point it may be cheaper to buy an entry level hanging strop from ruprazor.com or the poor man's strop kit from whippeddog.com (a very good deal would say).

If you'd rather take the chance with a 6k stone and then pastes, you're going to need something more than the CrOx. I'd go with the DMT or other diamond sprays. Instead of paddle strops, you can use balsa. you can get a 3" wide 3' long strip from your local hobby store for around $3. But if you think about it, that all could add up, diamond sprays are $25 IIRC, and don't last forever (though, a long time if used sparingly).

Keep in mind that stropping from a lower grit to a finished edge gives a different type/more convex edge. I would say that even if you do go sprays or pastes 6k might not be high enough. A forward stroke on a hard abrasive surface removes metal in a different manor than a trailing-edge motion on a soft and accommodating surface. This is why many people avoid pasted strops all together and take their edges up to 30k shapton glass hones. Granted, there are plenty others who simply buy a norton 4k/8k combo and a pasted strop and call it a day. That's another option you should look into, and one of the more popular recommendations here.

good luck

yeah, in the grand scheme of things i doubt i will regularly bring my knives over 4000 (maybe just a few). i only have one shaving razor and i wanted to keep the price of maintenance supplies down (but knowing me and sharp things, i doubt this will be the last razor i buy ;)). my goal is "best bang for the buck". i can pick up a new 6k king stone for about $30, but the 8k stones are $60+ and i will still need a 0.5 chrome oxide and plain leather strop. my thinking is how often will need 8k grit which is the same as 3 micron diamond :shrug:. i can build 4 leather bench strops for about $20-$40 and probably load 3 of them with abrasives for about the same.

i was thinking about using this succession:
1. 4000 king stone w/nagura
2. 3 micron diamond on leather
3. 1 micron diamond on leather
4. 0.5 micron chromium oxide
5. plain leather

i figured that i will be mostly maintaining the razor with the chromium oxide and plain leather, is that correct?

I still belive that an 8k would be a wiser decission. past that you wouldn't need any pasted strops, but you could finish on CrOx if you wanted since you have it.

I definitely wouldn't want to go from 4k to pastes. What you've gotta understand is that a 4k in razors is closer to a bevel setting stone than a finishing stone. there's a very large cap between that and 3 micron diamond. not to mention diamond is a different type of abrasive. personally, i would scratch that plan and go with either a 8k or a coticule.

You can go from 4k to 8k to 1 micron diamond to CrOx.
You're also going to need a hanging strop for daily use, at the very least hanging linen. normally you would finish your honing with 50 linen(canvas) then 50 leather.

8k is definitely preferable to 6k. If you get into it you'll end up getting an 8k anyway and 6k to pastes is too big a jump. That's too nice a blade to conduct experiments (that won't work either) like that on. YMMV but I doubt it.

from my understanding:
4k grit = 5-6 micron
8k grit = 3 micron

why would 3 micron diamond not be good after my 4k stone :shrug:.

I use hones and don't have experience with using pastes for honing, so I really can't give you any suggestion on that.
It'll probably work but you may have to experiment a bit and you'll most likely end up spending way more money and more time, but if that's the way you want to take nothing wrong with it.
Of course, the cheapest and best bang for the buck is to have the razor honed by somebody with the hones and experience to use them, and then just maintain it sharp, but it doesn't seem you like that.

If you understand german or french you should take a look at the big european forums for honing razors with pastes.

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Originally Posted by jimnolimit

from my understanding:
4k grit = 5-6 micron
8k grit = 3 micron

why would 3 micron diamond not be good after my 4k stone :shrug:.

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Primarily because:

A) Grit ratings are not universal

B) the cutting action of stropping is far different than the cutting action of a hone.
While a fine 8k hone will refine the entire surface of a bevel maintaining a flat and polished edge, stropping will remove material from the very edge of the bevel due to it's nature. in order to progress past 4k you will have to do a lot of refinement, which means a lot of material removed.

The final product will likely be something of a convex edge. i don't know if this is a good thing or not. I'm sure it's possible to create a shave-ready convex edge, however i can't speak on it since i haven't tried it.

Honestly, in the long run it's much cheaper for you to buy a $65 ish 8k/coticule and a $25 hanging strop.