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Hi all,
Looks like I have to send my razors to have them sharpened after my failed effort.
I tried honing mine yesterday as both have become a bit dull. This morning, the blade sounds like it's cutting hair, but nothing. Thumb nail test indicates it's got a bevel, but it's just not cutting.
Started all over again tonight, from 220 to 1000 to 4000 to 8000 to some crystal spray to a lot of stropping. Still not right.
I'm just not sure what I did wrong. I guess I'll have to send them out...
unfortunately going down to 4000 grit and below you've probably done far more damage than necessary. i think at this point you're probably right to send it for a rehone, but next time try a touch-up pyramid only, it really doesn't take much to keep a razor sharp, once you touch it to 1000 or in your case 200 grit all bets are off what exactly is the state of the edge.
the people who offer honing services can be found here
Member Services - Straight Razor Place Classifieds
also see if you can find local people as hands on learning can be far more effective than figuring it out over the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gugi
+1.
1000 should only be used for bevel setting, which should never be necessary if you're just refreshing an edge that was shaving last week.
Anything less than 1000, like your 220, should never be used with a razor except to grind out chips in the bevel. I've completely reshaped a frowning razor with nothing more than a 200 grit hone. In fact, it can be done at 1000 or even higher. It just takes longer. Even when grinding out a chip, I'll move back to my 1000 before the chip is completely gone, just so I can be sure I hone past all the deep gouges from the coarse stone without having to remove a ton of metal.
If you want to try with one of them to bring it back, here's what I suggest.
1. Put your 220 away and don't touch it.
2. Spend at least twice as long as you think you need at 1000. Really take your time with a VERY light touch. You need to hone past the damage you caused with your 220. The thumbnail test, like all edge tests other than the shave test, is highly subjective. Stay at 1000 until you can shave arm hairs easily. If you run out of arm hair, try the calf. You can always tell when I've been working on a lot of razors because my forearms and legs will be bald.
3. Do a regular pyramid. Nothing more. Nothing less.
4. Ignore all typical edge tests at this point. It's now time for the only universally accurate edge test. The shave test. With no further stropping, lather up and shave a SMALL area of your cheek. If you can't shave off the 8k, you're not done with the 8k. No exceptions. You should expect some minor pulling, and a less comfortable shave than you'd normally want, but it should shave without pain.
5. Only after you're successful at step 4, go ahead with your pastes and stropping. I find that a VERY large number of laps on an unpasted strop really helps. I do 15-25 on CrO pasted fabric, 100 on unpasted fabric, and 200 on unpasted leather.
Thanks. BUT...
I didn't go straight to the 220. I started off the first time with the 4000 and went to the 8000. Just a few passes on the 4000, then to the 8000.
It was only after I couldn't shave at all that I looked a bit deeper into the wiki and other places, and realized that I must have offset the bevel entirely with the different tape thickness that I used. It seemed to fit all the symptoms. The bevel was still sharp, it was just all off in terms of angle. I had probably ruined it already. Again, this is based on what the wiki and several threads indicated.
So I started from scratch. No tape at all (simplest way to go). That's why I went all the way back. Was that wrong?
allan
it doesn't take much to change the bevel from tape to no tape even on 4000 hone. sharpie marker is your friend there.
the problem you're having currently is that you don't have a reference what you need to accomplish on each grit level, i.e. when are you done with 1000 and it's time to switch to 4000.
Using multiple layers of tape overcomplicates the process and is quite unnecessary for a beginner at honing. Check with most of the top guys and you will find that they either use no tape or they use one layer to protect the spine of the razor. So, by going back to no tape you are on the right track.
Based on your commentary you almost certainly need a bevel re-set which would put you back on the 1K if you want to try it yourself. My strong suggestion would be to send it out to a pro and then, if you want to hone, do a couple of touch ups as the razor loses its edge. If you decide to do it yourself spend some time focusing on the threads dealing with setting the bevel. Once you have that done move on to refining the edge. I suspect that you really never got a proper bevel before you started polishing.
I can relate to your dilemma... After I tried my initial honing with my Norton starter kit, I had to send off the two razors to get them professionally honed again, and I bought a couple of 'cheapo' bulk razors off an auction site just for practicing with, 6 in all.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiyen
Like others have stated, I only used my 220 to remove a chip, then set the bevel on the 1k to where I could start to shave arm hair. Then I went to the 4k for 10 laps and the 8k for 20 laps and shave tested... I had to go back to the 8k for another 20 laps two more times before it felt 'good.'
Then I decided to buy a coticule, and that is all I use now, I started with the unicot method and now I am following the dilucot method with all my razors. Now that I have the feel for my coti and my razors, I hone all my razors with the coticule and dilucot method, follow up with my 0.5 diamond spray impregnated hard felt strop. Very smooth and comfortable.
Let me say first that I'm glad I didn't get flamed after I clarified. I realize that I went too far when I went "back to basics" but I appreciate that others felt the idea was sound. I was worried someone was going to call me an idiot or something.
I had read in a few places that when the bevel is lost or needs to be set from scratch, one has to be prepared to remove a lot of metal in the process, and thus go coarse. I understand now that since the blade was otherwise okay I didn't have to go that far. Next time I won't. But the intentions were right :-)
Even if we sound stern at times it's only in defense of the razor. It's very easy to get confused.
Someday we'll try to take close ups of a razor and write a definitive honing plan for each type of razor condition, from ebay special to "touch-up".
In the mean time, always try to err on the side of caution.
If all of us knew what we were doing, this forum would be kind of pointless, and rather boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiyen
its ok i did the same thing and had to send the razors out to get honed. now i dont even look at the 220 side of my stone and barely use the 1000. im still not good at it but i did get one razor to shave arm hair, the actual shave test was a failure :D but im trying to learn and one day i will be able to hone my own razors
-dan-
Never feel dumb here, there's too many question that NEED asking.
I was pleasantly surprised you went up to 8000 and beyond with the spray (can you find out exactly what the spray is?) and stayed away from machines. That puts you a step ahead of many. Heck, when I very very first began I tried using a machine...with extreme care...thinking that people on here were simply purists. WRONG haha, only did that once!
I just have to say that this tread is a great example of everything that is right about this forum. Kudos to all.
I just meant the diamond spray, sorry. Nothing special. I figured I should go through the whole progression to be safe. But losing the bevel makes that rather moot...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soilarch
Just like everybody else said, you shouldn't feel bad at all.
I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you that without question, there were razors that I absolutely RUINED a razor or two learning to hone and restore.
I've cracked scales by over tightening a pin.
I've put at least one HUGE and nearly irreparable cut into a very nice SRD strop that didn't deserve it.
It happens to the best of us. I'm sure that even Lynn has accidentally trashed a blade as some point. (although probably not in the last decade or two)
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubb65
:gaah: Guilty on all counts Your Honor except it was a VB strop :rofl2:
Utopian is out of communication right now and I don't have a phone number so I'll just say it publicly - thanks! Turns out I had the bevel right...just not completely sharpened. I just needed a bit more honing. But the bevel was (re)set. Utopian/Ron is the best!
Hey, I'm glad you got it worked out. I also just got my razors back from Ron and I'm very impressed at the work he did. I hope life settles down for him soon so he can get back here to SRP.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiyen
Indeed. I think my razors are actually sharper now than when I first bought them...