Need advice on hone purchase / New to straight razor shaving

I’ve been shaving with a straight razor for about a month now and I am enjoying the shaves I’m getting. Previously I was shaving with a double edge razor and thought I was getting a close shave then I tried a vintage straight and wow what a difference. I only cut my self one time but I continued to use my straight razor. It is a wonderful feeling to use the same type of razors my great grandparents would use.

I have decided to keep using a straight razor, now I need advice on a good set of stones. There is so many choices out there and is hard to make a choice. What I have been reading I should get something to set the bevels, refresh the edge, lapping, and a polishing stone. I have about $200.00 in my budget to get started any pointers on which hones I should buy would be appreciated.

The more recent version for you
Some thoughts on honing razors..
Aspiring honers are often not clear about what they are trying to accomplish when it comes to honing razors. In particular, they are often unsure of what they are doing and how often they should be doing it. Some questions you might want to answer for yourself before you start buying hones: this also means that if you are not sure of the answer here, you should shave more, and wait to buy hones until you can answer these questions.... I normally recommend 6 months of shaving before even thinking about honing

■ Are you an "end-user"; someone who only hones a previously shave-ready blade back to shave-ready?
■ Are you a hobbyist who is chasing the absolute finest edge that may be obtained where money is no object?
■ Are you a frugal shaver who is after the cheapest way to complete your morning shave?
■ Are you a collector who needs to take E-bay specials from butt-ugly to shave-ready?
■ Are you a Honemiester; someone who gets paid to do all of these things for others?
■ Are you a razor restorer who needs to take damaged blades and bring them back to life and shave-readiness?

Each of these types of honer profiles have different requirements for the stones they will own. Theoretically, you can survive using the "one stone" approach, but each razor does have an optimum stone set - and more importantly, a technique for using the required hones. So generally, when somebody asks what stone or how to use what stone, the question to ask them is: "What are you trying to accomplish with the stone(S)?"

Refreshing vs. Starting from Scratch:

The types of hones required depends first and foremost on the type of honing you want to do.

Hones needed for refreshing a dull blade:

If the only task you want to perform is refreshing edges that have previously been established by a Honemiester (the process is often referred to as "touching up"), you need only get a fine grit finishing stone or a barber's hone for this. Either of these hones can be used to keep your razor(s) shave-ready for years.

Hones needed for restoring razors:

If you want to set a bevel, or have many different types of razors, you will need a full set of hones.


A bevel setting stone approximately 1k

DMT's 325 600 1200, Shapton 500, 1K and 2K, Coticules with slurry, Norton 1k, Naniwa 1k, King 1k Chosera 1k

A sharpening stone approximately 4k

Norton 4K, Shapton 4K Naniwa 3k or 5k, Belgian Blue with slurry, Coticule with slurry, King 4k or 6k Tam o Shanter, Dragon's Tongue

A polishing stone approximately 8k

Norton 8k, Shapton 8k, Naniwa 8k, Yellow Coticule, Water of Ayre, Some of the Japanese Naturals

A finishing stone 10k and above (this is often subject to debate, however)

Shapton GS 16k-30k Shapton 15k Naniwa SS 10k-12k or Chosera 10k, Thuringens, Escher's, Many different natural Japanese finishers, Charlney Forest, Extra Fine Coticule, even some of the Arkansas stones...

You have several choices of how to accomplish this setup whether you use natural, man-made stone, or a Diamond-style stone, even honing films, but you are going to have to be able to cover those 4 grit ranges. There really is no true shortcut here if you expect to take razors acquired in need of restoration from butter knife dull (or damaged) to shaving sharp: You are going to end up needing these types of stones.


Pastes can be used after the hones and before the final stropping also these can be used for re-freshing the edge before going back to the hones for a touch-up... Some shavers even use pastes to "sharpen" the razor after the bevel set has been done...

A few different types

Dovo Pastes:

Green 5-8 micron
Red 3-5 micron
Black 1-3 micron
Dovo pastes are a much more mild cutter then say a diamond paste of the same micron size...

Diamond Paste:

From 3 micron down to actually .10 micron if you really wanted to...
These pastes are fast and many people use them incorrectly and manage too get a harsh edge, when used correctly and on the right razor steel these will most likely be the sharpest edge you will ever feel...

Diamond sprays:

Mostly found in 1.0 .50 and .25 micron watch the Carat content here, the higher the better (SRD has the best I have found and yes Lynn and Don are friends of mine, but heck it is still the best spray I have found)

Chromium Oxide Paste/Powder .50 micron (CrOx)
Probably the most universal of the pastes, get the most pure you can find, and no the bars at Woodcrafters are not pure...

Cerium Oxide Paste/Powder (approx).25 micron (CeOx)

Super fine, super soft, and super smooth, polishing media...The bar at Woodcrafter's is of unknown quality at this time

Other Pastes and Powders:

Iron Oxide
Aluminum Oxide

Both of these can also be used again be very careful when buying this stuff as the purity and the micron sizes are very important...

Carbon blacking/lamp black:

This might be the oldest of all the sharpening "pastes" when used on a leather strop it increases draw

Wood Ash:

Another old fashioned one very slightly abrasive when used on Linen strops and Leather strops..

White chalk:

Can be rubbed on a linen strop to increase the abrasive qualities

Newspaper:

The ink itself is a very fine abrasive and so is the paper..

Keep in mind that different razor steels like/dislike different pastes, and the different media that is used to apply it including Balsa, Linen, Leather (paddle) Leather (hanger) and Felt paddle and hanger all give different results on different razor steels....


The above are only my personal opinions and observations... There are no set rules in Razordom

I have been updating and posting that listing for almost 2 years now and there are still some missing :D

Picking a system is really rather easy... sticking with it and learning it is the hard part...

Everyone has they favorite pet stone/hone and each person will recommend that stone to you because that is what they use, they want to feel validated by you picking the same one :)

Everything I listed and more that I didn't when used correctly will get you shaving... Everything else is just personal opinion...


Myself I always recommend the Norton starter set with the 220-1k and 4k-8k along with a Norton lapping stone that you will eventually replace with a DMT 325...

It is the most documented system on the forums and it can sharpen any razor out there, it is not the "Best" and it has room for improvement, but that can come later after you learn to hone razors... The whole system is well below your budget too which is just another plus...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Myself I always recommend the Norton starter set with the 220-1k and 4k-8k along with a Norton lapping stone that you will eventually replace with a DMT 325...

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+1, Welcome to SRP. :gl:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

The more recent version for you
Some thoughts on honing razors..
Aspiring honers are often not clear about what they are trying to accomplish when it comes to honing razors. In particular, they are often unsure of what they are doing and how often they should be doing it. Some questions you might want to answer for yourself before you start buying hones: this also means that if you are not sure of the answer here, you should shave more, and wait to buy hones until you can answer these questions.... I normally recommend 6 months of shaving before even thinking about honing

■ Are you an "end-user"; someone who only hones a previously shave-ready blade back to shave-ready?
■ Are you a hobbyist who is chasing the absolute finest edge that may be obtained where money is no object?
■ Are you a frugal shaver who is after the cheapest way to complete your morning shave?
■ Are you a collector who needs to take E-bay specials from butt-ugly to shave-ready?
■ Are you a Honemiester; someone who gets paid to do all of these things for others?
■ Are you a razor restorer who needs to take damaged blades and bring them back to life and shave-readiness?

Each of these types of honer profiles have different requirements for the stones they will own. Theoretically, you can survive using the "one stone" approach, but each razor does have an optimum stone set - and more importantly, a technique for using the required hones. So generally, when somebody asks what stone or how to use what stone, the question to ask them is: "What are you trying to accomplish with the stone(S)?"

Refreshing vs. Starting from Scratch:

The types of hones required depends first and foremost on the type of honing you want to do.

Hones needed for refreshing a dull blade:

If the only task you want to perform is refreshing edges that have previously been established by a Honemiester (the process is often referred to as "touching up"), you need only get a fine grit finishing stone or a barber's hone for this. Either of these hones can be used to keep your razor(s) shave-ready for years.

Hones needed for restoring razors:

If you want to set a bevel, or have many different types of razors, you will need a full set of hones.


A bevel setting stone approximately 1k

DMT's 325 600 1200, Shapton 500, 1K and 2K, Coticules with slurry, Norton 1k, Naniwa 1k, King 1k Chosera 1k

A sharpening stone approximately 4k

Norton 4K, Shapton 4K Naniwa 3k or 5k, Belgian Blue with slurry, Coticule with slurry, King 4k or 6k Tam o Shanter, Dragon's Tongue

A polishing stone approximately 8k

Norton 8k, Shapton 8k, Naniwa 8k, Yellow Coticule, Water of Ayre, Some of the Japanese Naturals

A finishing stone 10k and above (this is often subject to debate, however)

Shapton GS 16k-30k Shapton 15k Naniwa SS 10k-12k or Chosera 10k, Thuringens, Escher's, Many different natural Japanese finishers, Charlney Forest, Extra Fine Coticule, even some of the Arkansas stones...

You have several choices of how to accomplish this setup whether you use natural, man-made stone, or a Diamond-style stone, even honing films, but you are going to have to be able to cover those 4 grit ranges. There really is no true shortcut here if you expect to take razors acquired in need of restoration from butter knife dull (or damaged) to shaving sharp: You are going to end up needing these types of stones.


Pastes can be used after the hones and before the final stropping also these can be used for re-freshing the edge before going back to the hones for a touch-up... Some shavers even use pastes to "sharpen" the razor after the bevel set has been done...

A few different types

Dovo Pastes:

Green 5-8 micron
Red 3-5 micron
Black 1-3 micron
Dovo pastes are a much more mild cutter then say a diamond paste of the same micron size...

Diamond Paste:

From 3 micron down to actually .10 micron if you really wanted to...
These pastes are fast and many people use them incorrectly and manage too get a harsh edge, when used correctly and on the right razor steel these will most likely be the sharpest edge you will ever feel...

Diamond sprays:

Mostly found in 1.0 .50 and .25 micron watch the Carat content here, the higher the better (SRD has the best I have found and yes Lynn and Don are friends of mine, but heck it is still the best spray I have found)

Chromium Oxide Paste/Powder .50 micron (CrOx)
Probably the most universal of the pastes, get the most pure you can find, and no the bars at Woodcrafters are not pure...

Cerium Oxide Paste/Powder (approx).25 micron (CeOx)

Super fine, super soft, and super smooth, polishing media...The bar at Woodcrafter's is of unknown quality at this time

Other Pastes and Powders:

Iron Oxide
Aluminum Oxide

Both of these can also be used again be very careful when buying this stuff as the purity and the micron sizes are very important...

Carbon blacking/lamp black:

This might be the oldest of all the sharpening "pastes" when used on a leather strop it increases draw

Wood Ash:

Another old fashioned one very slightly abrasive when used on Linen strops and Leather strops..

White chalk:

Can be rubbed on a linen strop to increase the abrasive qualities

Newspaper:

The ink itself is a very fine abrasive and so is the paper..

Keep in mind that different razor steels like/dislike different pastes, and the different media that is used to apply it including Balsa, Linen, Leather (paddle) Leather (hanger) and Felt paddle and hanger all give different results on different razor steels....


The above are only my personal opinions and observations... There are no set rules in Razordom

---

Thanks for that wonderful reply

I was thinking about getting a Naniwa Super Stones 3000/8000 Hone, 12000 Grit Hone, DMT D8C, and the DMT 600/1200 would this be a good setup for [I]refreshing a dull blade and restoring razors? I was doing some research on the Shaptons and it’s recommended to use there flatting stone can you use a DMT D8C to lap the Shaptons? Is there a big difference with the Norton 4000/8000 and the a Naniwa Super Stones 3000/8000 Hone? Sorry for all the questions I’m such a newbie who wants to learn the art of straight razor shaving.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blademen

I was thinking about getting a Naniwa Super Stones 3000/8000 Hone, 12000 Grit Hone, DMT D8C, and the DMT 600/1200 would this be a good setup for refreshing a dull blade and restoring razors?

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It would work, a better option would be D8C + naniwa 1k, 5k, 8k, 12k
i.e. instead of dmt 600/1200 + naniwa 3k, get naniwa 1k+5k. Or if you prefer smaller jumps get that 3k too possibly as a combo hone if you want. I think starting with as few hones as possible is better as it removes some unnecessary distractions (so i'd stick to naniwa 1k-5k-8k for restoration, and 8k with potential 5 strokes on 5k if absolutely necessary for just touching up previously honed razor).

But none of these is going to be USD200.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blademen

I was doing some research on the Shaptons and it’s recommended to use there flatting stone can you use a DMT D8C to lap the Shaptons?

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yes, you can use the d8c for to lap the shaptons, their lapping plate is better but way way more expensive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blademen

Is there a big difference with the Norton 4000/8000 and the a Naniwa Super Stones 3000/8000 Hone?

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The difference is in the feedback, the superstones are resin bound and have very soft feedback (that's what I prefer and what I use).

1-4-8 Norton or 1-3-8 Naniwa will both work just fine...

Either set has combo hones available to keep costs down too there is a 4/8 Norton and a 3/8 Naniwa out there..
The Naniwas are more expandable then the Nortons as there are just more hones to their set...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blademen

Thanks for that wonderful reply

I was thinking about getting a Naniwa Super Stones 3000/8000 Hone, 12000 Grit Hone, DMT D8C, and the DMT 600/1200 would this be a good setup for [I]refreshing a dull blade and restoring razors? I was doing some research on the Shaptons and it’s recommended to use there flatting stone can you use a DMT D8C to lap the Shaptons? Is there a big difference with the Norton 4000/8000 and the a Naniwa Super Stones 3000/8000 Hone? Sorry for all the questions I’m such a newbie who wants to learn the art of straight razor shaving.

---

+10 on the reply from gssixgun.

It is important to remind you that you are asking
two questions: maintain and restore.

My first bias is that the Na12K Superstone combined with a
DMT to keep it flat is mostly all that is needed to touch
up and maintain a razor. i.e I like my 12K superstone a lot.

My second bias is to purchase hones 1K and finer
from a single maker. There are three international
standards and to keep all things in order a single maker
is a big help. I should note that I have a Norton 4K/8K
combo that I follow with my 12K superstone and it works
for me. I believe that a 3K/8K combo or a 4K/8K combo
are about equal -- some might like a 10K hone to help bridge
the 8K to 12K jump but as fast as Superstones are it may
not be needed.


If budget was not a big question I would recommend a nine
hone superstone kit. i.e. 220, 400, 1000, 2000, 3000,
5000, 8000, 10,000 and 12,000 grit Super Stones
combined with a largish DMT to keep them lapped flat. If I add up all
the random hone purchases I have made a full kit
of superstones would cost less.

If budget is an issue home made balsa hones
get a lot of bang for the buck. Start with ChromeOxide
for the first refresh or so.

The Chinese 12K hone would be a great deal if
it did not eat DMT plates. A new one often needs
to be cleaned up to be flat and square but once flat
it can be maintained with a lesser DMT or even WetDry 3M
If you find one that is pre-lapped flat for a fair price you
can save yourself the expense of a monster
extra/extra/coarse DMT.

A starter budget trick is abrasive on film supported on
flat glass or granite tile. Woodcraft has film
15micron, 5micron and 0.3 micron and if you are
resetting the bevel on one or two razors a year
it works like a champ. The 0.3 micron is gosh fine
and will give an edge that is Feather sharp and harsh but
can be calmed down with CrOx on leather or balsa. No need
for a DMT to lap it flat. Google for Pinnacle Honing Film.
The 15micron is about 1K equivalent. The big jumps
work because abrasive on film is such a fast media.


Coarser than 1K what works is what works. I have
a couple DMT plates that let me get chips out and
do major adjustments but once the adjustments are
done sharpening takes me back to my hones.

I would strongly urge you to consider whether you want to maintain edges or restore them as well.

The difference in cost and learning curve is hundreds and years. Literally. Do not take these words lightly.

Ok I will give you a new guys trip on learning to hone my razors. I have a king 1k and the norton 4/8k combo stone and I just got the dmt 325 to lap them with. Make sure you watch gssixguns videos on honing as he does one on those stones and they are really great. I have only got 3 razors but have honed them several times because I would try and fail try and fail and am up to about 10 honings on those razors but am finally starting to get it with alot of help. If you have one of your razors honed by one of the pros here it will greatly help as it gives you a mark as to what you are trying to get to. I would get frustrated with my honing and blame the hones or razor and take a break and think about it and get back at it and after a few attempts get somthing that was ok. Im shaving with my razors that I have honed and they are getting much better now but alot to learn and you will get great satisfaction with your victorys at the hones and learn from the failures. I like my stones and think they will do a good job on my razors and when I have troubles I know its not the stones fault. I think they are resonably priced and you can get them and stay within your budget and after we learn to hone well on those move up into the others. This is just a new guys opinion but I hope it helps.
Glenn

I'm SOOO glad someone else has asked this question. I've already posted in a few other areas that I just celebrated my 1 year anniversary with my razor. Max has honed my razors in the past, but he's urged me to try refreshing them myself - and I think I'm ready to try. i just have two razors - so I do NOT want to screw them up. I was really leaning towards using diamond sprays and SRD's modular strop until I read this post. I've been told many times that the Naniwa 12k is the way for a newb to go. Someone also mentioned a D8EEE. I have an old Keen Kutter that's in great shape, but I've been scared of using it after reading all the warning in the Wiki and in these forums about the lack of quality in old barber hones. I've also been thinking about using a good ol' coticule. From what I've read they are the most user friendly and can be very slow cutting. Help please!

Also, I have a balsa board and some .5m CrOx. This seems like a silly question because I haven't seen it asked before. Do I use this like a hone (edge leading) or a strop (spine leading) ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geonjay

I'm SOOO glad someone else has asked this question. I've already posted in a few other areas that I just celebrated my 1 year anniversary with my razor. Max has honed my razors in the past, but he's urged me to try refreshing them myself - and I think I'm ready to try. i just have two razors - so I do NOT want to screw them up. I was really leaning towards using diamond sprays and SRD's modular strop until I read this post. I've been told many times that the Naniwa 12k is the way for a newb to go. Someone also mentioned a D8EEE. I have an old Keen Kutter that's in great shape, but I've been scared of using it after reading all the warning in the Wiki and in these forums about the lack of quality in old barber hones. I've also been thinking about using a good ol' coticule. From what I've read they are the most user friendly and can be very slow cutting. Help please!

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Maintaining an edge is much easier than honing a blade from scratch. I learned on a coticule but I wouldn't discount your Barber's Hone too quickly either. Utopian managed for years if I remember rightly and is still a (very knowledgable) fan of them. I don't know the brand but I'm sure someone does and will chip in.