"Pulling" Explained

Pulling! Gentlemen~ The sensation you feel from "pulling" or that bizarre catchy-ness you feel when you first start straight shaving comes from pressure applied against the skin.

It has nothing what-so-ever to do with sharpness. In fact, the sharper the blade the more pulling it can cause.

When it gets explained as bad, poor, inexperienced "technique" it is literally the application of too much pressure (any at all) against the skin.

A hydrated whisker, shaved alone, will be removed with no effort at all. The whisker will be obliterated. BUT, if you use that same exact razor with the application of pressure against the skin, you'll get "pulling". A nasty drawing sensation against the skin.

This problem is compounded with an against the grain pass because your shaving into the skins pore.

It is the objective of the straight razor shaver to shave the whiskers without touching the blade to the face!

Impossible you say? Well, yes, it kind of is, but keep this in mind when you shave. Look for some individual hairs close up and shave them without touching the blade to the skin and you shall see. Be careful if you get too close to the mirror. If the scale hits the mirror your in trouble.

THIS IS WHY A DE RAZOR SEEMS TO HAVE LESS DRAG!!

This gentlemen, is the answer to why you feel less drag with a Double Edge. It is because the saftey bar prevents heavy contact of the blade with the skin. It's the safety bar that runs down your skin and the DE blade only makes controlled light contact.

I would list the proper angle and proper pressure applied while shaving as the most important tenant of the straight shaver.

Thank you for this post. Im really learning how important the no pressure thing is. Im about 30 shaves in and at first I would try and squeegie the whiskers of my face and got some good burn. Its much better now as Im getting better with the pressure. I also have done the close up with my cheaters on to try and get a couple whiskers around the corners of my mouth and would just try and nip them off and would miss it and miss it then get it and be surprised because I did not feel it just suddenly saw it on the blade. I dont know about shaving without touching my skin at all but just trying to do that has really helped with the comfort of my shaves as well as no more razor burn or at least none if i dont make any mistakes which it not all the time yet.
Glenn

Very well said! That is by far the best definition of pulling I have heard. I think your thread will help a ton of people get better results.

Thank you for this. It really clarifies what people mean by a "problem with technique" and "use a light touch."

This explanation is so good and seems so fundamental that perhaps at deserves a sticky or being added to the wiki, or both.

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Originally Posted by KingOscar

Thank you for this. It really clarifies what people mean by a "problem with technique" and "use a light touch. This explanation is so good and seems so fundamental that perhaps at deserves a sticky or being added to the wiki, or both.

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That's a good idea. It should be added to the Wiki.

Great post! I know from my own experience, I assumed that you had to apply SOME pressure to the straight razor against the face because after all, this is what I've been doing for years with a disposable razor. So it's almost counter-intuitive for a beginner to apply NO pressure and still imagine that it will shave nice and close. But as they say, LESS is MORE!

Keep up the great posts, AFDavis11!

Very well put sir. You've explained the pulling effect perfectly. JimmyHAD once put it something like this: "The less you try to get a great shave, the better shave you end up with." Makes sense now. Thanks- J

Thanks! I too have been trying to squeegie the whiskers off my face. Gotta give this a try when I shave tomorrow.

Sorry AF but your wrong about the DE. Those of you who have a DE take it and put it against you finger. if you do it with no angle yes the bar prevents contact however you use the proper angle with a DE and then press toward your finger and the blade will come in contact with your finger and the harder you press the greater the contact. If this was not the case pressure would not matter much with a DE but it does the same as with a straight.

However you're correct about the straight and pulling.

Thank you for your accurate explanation! Down to earth explanations of common problems are tremendously helpful for beginners such as myself.

Keep em' coming! :)

I think this an excellent post. Some things, though, I would nuance slightly as I think it leaves room for misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

... The sensation you feel from "pulling" or that bizarre catchy-ness you feel when you first start straight shaving comes from pressure applied against the skin. It has nothing what-so-ever to do with sharpness....

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Undoubtedly, a dull blade can cause pulling. I think the above should state that it might not have anything to do with sharpness.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

... A hydrated whisker, shaved alone, will be removed with no effort at all....

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This makes a good point by overstating. But, it can lead to misunderstanding I believe. Even thought this might seem nitpicky, because of my next comment, this is a very important point to understand. Restated...

One hydrated whisker will be removed easily, although it does require a slight amount of forward movement of the blade to cut. Even though very slight, there is some resistance against the blade by the one whisker.

It is a mechanical fact that it takes pressure to shave thru a whisker. Even though it takes very little pressure to shave one whisker, it takes more pressure to shave two whiskers. And, even more to shave 300 whiskers. And, this additional force is often interpreted as pulling.

And, here is where I am not nuancing as much as offering an alternative interpretation. When the blade is close to the skin while shaving long whiskers with the WTG pass, the blade travels thru the whisker at close to 90 degrees. But, when the blade is above the skin, even a slight amount, the blade tends to push into the whisker and push it over somewhat before slicing the whisker. This means that the whisker is cut at an increasing diagonal angle the higher the blade is above the whisker. This then requires more forward pressure to shave thru the whisker. Which means that there is more of what is often termed pulling when the blade shaves above the skin.

While I agree with the technique of shaving with the blade slightly above the skin with the initial WTG pass, and I frequently place the blade flat on my face to achieve the elevation slightly above my skin, it is my opinion that this tactic actually increases pulling.

The bottom line for me is that I believe no matter how good your technique, with the initial WTG pass, there will be pulling.

My final comment is that there are significant differences in shaving strategy depending on where you are in your shave. The initial WTG pass with long whiskers strategy should be greatly different than when finishing up whiskers that have already been shaved to skin level. And, so, I could probably agree with everything said in the initial post for some portion of a shave. Possibly, the nuancing needs to be simply to specify to which part of the shave the statement applied.

Larry and Nelson,

Excellent points and clarifications. I especially agree that with an intitial WTG pass there will be pulling.

You know, I was watching curling on the telly the other day at the gym, and I suddenly connected what a friend told me about rock throwing with straight shaving.

It's really, really easy to throw a curling rock on ice. Push it, and it will slide. What's really hard, is to throw lightly enough. If you throw too hard, your rock will just hit the end of the ice, and you won't hit bullseye. My friend told me that an experience curler has many levels of throwing strength, so that he's able to modulate six or seven gradations of strength between too strong and too weak. And trust me, the line between too strong and too weak is already very, very thin.

It's the same thing with a straight. Since my DOVO came back from the sharpening, I noticed that I needed a lighter touch with stropping, a lighter touch with shaving, but that it's still necessary to have sufficient pressure.

Like the curler, you need to be able to vary precisely minute amounts of pressure. It's high-precision floating point operations, if you prefer a math metaphor.

Thank you for the post. Looking at it this way helped me get my best shave yet last night. That and a hot towel between passes seems to do the trick.:)

I've been thinking about the first post since I read it. I've been thinking about _why_ excess pressure is so bad.

When I started shaving with a straight or DE razor, I had problems with razor burn. They have almost completely disappeared. I don't care about after-shave balms as much as I used to, because I don't _need_ them very often. I don't think my face has gotten tougher; I think my technique has improved.

I suspect that good lather acts as a _genuine lubricant_ between the edge of the razor and the skin. That kind of lubrication works at the microscopic level:

. . . the lubricant is a liquid film, and the film prevents the two surfaces (skin and razor)
. . . from actually touching each other.

If one presses too hard on the razor, the film breaks down, and the razor _does_ contact the skin. That's what "razor burn" is -- as well as cutting hair, you're scraping skin!

You need _some_ pressure to cut hair. The two elements of a gentle shave are:

. . . using _only as much pressure as needed_, and

. . . making as thick and "lubricious" a lather as you can.

If you do that, razor burn just disappears, because the razor never touches your skin.

It's not a fantasy, or a mode of thought, or an impossible goal -- it's what really happens in a good shave!

Charles

I could have used this information a couple of days ago, especially the part about not bumping the mirror with the handle -- ouch! Great post.

I even keep the brush in the cup and re-apply a bit of lather and/or lather-water in areas that I am just about to re-do. I'll explain (besided being very new) I'm shaving back along my jaw line toward my ear, and I want to go down just a bit and I've just rinsed and wiped my razor, I will apply just a dab over where I had just shaved and let the razor start in that area where there is lube/soap and continue on. DON'T be afraid of re-lathering at some point (for newbies) even though it's there, it can somtimes need freshining up with maybe just a bit of hot water, the brush and the lather that is on your face to get it good and wet again. If we were just looking for lubricating our face we all be putting K-Y Jelly on instead of lather.. LOL

I also have a razor that I had to cut a large piece out of the heel since it had a large nick in the blade there. The front part of the razor, the Mulcuto, has a nice edge,but it's less wide than a normal straight, and a little bit wider than my disposables.
http://vernsdidj.com/pictures/misc/r...to_revised.jpg

It shaves and feels different, and it may be because it has less surface area when it cuts as well. Not sure. But I know when I shave with it, ther feeling is different.

Also, the last time I shaved, I did like I practice and once I started on an area, I just went. Seems momentum is good and I really don't like going "chink, chink, chink, chink" taking little swipes of shaving cuts down my face. But, that is just me.

This is a great post. Pressure is not helpful or necessary if your edge is tuned to your face/needs.

I would add, though, that if your straight pulls no matter what you do, it just might not be shave ready. Also, some people's "shave ready" has not been the same as my shave ready (and perhaps vice versa, I don't know), so there is that factor to consider as well.

After reading this thread I really focused on keeping the blade away from my face and I had the best shave so far. Thank you so much for explaining this.

Mason

Larry, Nelson, and now Sham (through a very nice PM) have explained many of the problems with this post.

But, I'm pleased it has created some conversation. One great point that Sham brought to my attention is that non-shave ready blades will pull. That is very true.

This post was directed only at "shave-ready" blades. Particularly those honed by the likes of Lynn or Glen (SixGun). Blades that are particularly well honed.

Another good point that Sham (Hi Bud GL) brought up is that if you have the right angle you can shave with pressure and get no pulling. I agree with that comment as well. I don't really have the credentials to agree or disagree with Sham, just adding my thoughts.

And, probably the most important point that should be added to this thread is that I don't really, truely, literally, mean that you should shave with a straight razor without the blade touching the skin at all. This post was more about getting beginners to understand that really sharp blades, when angled incorrectly and with pressure applied, often feel the same and behave like dull blades.

If any of you have been waving the straight razor 2-3 inches away from your face and been unsuccessful in your shaving endeavors I humbly apologize! :o

Actually, it was more like 1/2" away, but the whiskers came off anyway.. The force is stong in me.. it was strong in my family. *S*

Thank you SO much OP for the post. I've attempted my first couple shaves with my straight razor and I've felt a lot of "pulling". I ended up finishing up with my DE razor (which went through everything like hot knife through butter), and assumed my straight razor needed a good honing. Good to know it's something I can fix with technique!

Thanks again!!

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Originally Posted by teemus

Thanks! I too have been trying to squeegie the whiskers off my face. Gotta give this a try when I shave tomorrow.

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Squeegie? What is that please?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by planetocean

Squeegie? What is that please?

Thanks.

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You know those things for washing windows that has the rubber blade to pull the water off?

Can straight ever get sharp enough to the point to compete with Double Edge blades for sharpness and smooth "no pulling", like those from Personna Med Prep or some of the Russian blades? I have a shavette holder and have tried 1/2 of a DE blade in there and there is no doubt that it simpy blows away anything I've shaved with in the realm of straights, including such razors I have as Revisor, Wacker, Wade & Butcher, Dovo....

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Originally Posted by Gibbs

Can straight ever get sharp enough to the point to compete with Double Edge blades for sharpness and smooth "no pulling", like those from Personna Med Prep or some of the Russian blades? I have a shavette holder and have tried 1/2 of a DE blade in there and there is no doubt that it simpy blows away anything I've shaved with in the realm of straights, including such razors I have as Revisor, Wacker, Wade & Butcher, Dovo....

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Vern, You have approached honing from some rather unorthodox paths, so it is hard to answer for you...
There are razors with steel that will hold unto an edge to rival a DE edge easily when honed correctly..

Just an example: Most any Little Valley NY Full Hollow Grind razor honed with care on the Shapton System will have the sharpness but will still keep the smoothness... Keep in mind that pushing a SR edge too far doesn't always get the results you are after, often it just results in a harsh shave from a mis-honed edge...

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Originally Posted by bharner

You know those things for washing windows that has the rubber blade to pull the water off?

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Hmmmm ok, but what has that got to do with “I too have been trying to squeegie the whiskers off my face”?

Is squeegie a type of bad shaving technique?

Ok I think I have worked it out, to drag the blade down ones face hugging it tight and more horizontal as if it were a rubber blade upon a windowpane.

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Originally Posted by planetocean

Hmmmm ok, but what has that got to do with “I too have been trying to squeegee the whiskers off my face”?

Is squeegee a type of bad shaving technique?

Ok I think I have worked it out, to drag the blade down ones face hugging it tight and more horizontal as if it were a rubber blade upon a windowpane.

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There is a saying to describe a near perfect shaving pass "A Velvet Squeegee" in effect: a super smooth, very comfortable, near BBS single pass...
This means that the razor's edge, your technique, and your beard, are all working together, and you barely feel the pass.. It is a good thing :) but it is just a saying ..

This explanation of pulling was helpful beyond belief. Really a must read for any beginner. It really helped me adjust the pressure properly for my first shave. I did not fully understand the concept of "pulling" before I read this. Many thanks!

Very helpful thread. Thanks AFDavis for starting this conversation.

Look, you also have to remember that a straight is, on average, at least twice as long as a DE. That is a lot more surface area trying to move through stubble. A straight will always feel like it is pulling more compared to a DE for that reason, but as Alan and others have said there are other reasons too. The trick is to recognise the differences between the types of pulling, and deal with the type you can control with technique. I suppose you would call the first kind (due to larger surface area) "resistance" rather than pulling...something to get used to rather than overcome. Although, you can overcome it by using only subsets of the blade like the toe or heel, particularly for certain areas of the face.

James.

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Originally Posted by Gibbs

Can straight ever get sharp enough to the point to compete with Double Edge blades for sharpness and smooth "no pulling", like those from Personna Med Prep or some of the Russian blades? I have a shavette holder and have tried 1/2 of a DE blade in there and there is no doubt that it simpy blows away anything I've shaved with in the realm of straights, including such razors I have as Revisor, Wacker, Wade & Butcher, Dovo....

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It's not so much about the straight getting sharp & smooth enough. That is definitely achievable but of course, the individual razor, honing & shave technique do play a big part.
Honing is completely removed from the equation with DE's & the system itself is very different but easier to master than an open blade. That ease of use may give the illusion of superior sharpness & smoothness but it is an illusion.

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

It's not so much about the straight getting sharp & smooth enough. That is definitely achievable but of course, the individual razor, honing & shave technique do play a big part.
Honing is completely removed from the equation with DE's & the system itself is very different but easier to master than an open blade. That ease of use may give the illusion of superior sharpness & smoothness but it is an illusion.

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I shave with both DEs and straights. I have experienced both good and bad shaves with each. I agree that each has its own technique and that the technique for a straight is harder to learn (let alone master). With all that said, I would disagree with the idea that the perception of greater sharpness from a shavette or DE is an illusion.

The replaceable blade edge starts with a thickness that only the finest craftsmen can obtain and maintain on a straight. The thinness of the metal the edge is ground on is a fraction of the thickness of a full hollow razor before the bevel and edge are created. This thinness and the fact that the blade is replaced and not maintained are reasons, that for us average maintainers of straight edges, the replaceable blade is in fact sharper.

Also, the perception of sharpness is multi-facited. It depends on the heaviness and coarseness of the beard, the geography of the face, the quality of the prep and the technical skill of the shaver. The DE in particular gives the average person an easier to use and, on average, sharper tool to handle a wide variety of shaving situations. Can a master of the maintenance and use of straight razors get as close and smooth a shave as with a DE? I do not doubt it. Can the average shaver do the same? I doubt it.

Some straight razor users will get all they need when shaving with a straight. For others, shaves will get better over time as skill increases. I can get an acceptable shave with a straight without using another razor to clean up. Are these shaves as smooth and comfortable as with my DEs? No. Will they ever be? Again, I doubt it for the reasons stated above. One may ask, as an average shaver why should I shave with a straight? My personal reason is they are a tool that is fun to use and care for and I like tools. They are a constant challenge that I look forward to every day. ;)

Thank you. Very helpful.

+1
Never thought about this but I have experienced the pulling sensation.
Now I know why.

I experienced this about 20 minutes ago, I joined this forum a few months ago while thinking about getting into straight razor shaving. I finally did it. This evening I could not get a close shave and I have a lot of pulling; this is the second time this has happened this week. Very frustrating! I purchased a Dovo Soligen 6/8 SS Blade from The Art of Shaving and all the goodies, how do you determine if the pulling is from technique or a dull blade? I have tried different angles and pressure and I still have pulling. Thanks.

The best I can offer is this: I have never experienced pulling with a blade I knew to be sharp. It hasn't mattered what my preparation was or was not. I typically use minimal prep, just some warm water splashes, a quick lather and off I go. With a sharp blade, I'm good. If I experience pulling, then I know the blade needs work. Once you get your technique down, the only real variable will be the blade.

I think you are right, the blade is more than likely not shave ready. I guess I will have to send it off for honing (any recommendations are appreciated). I have been using a SR for 15 years to keep my goatee nice and tidy, but never used it to fully shave. I feel very comfortable using it and shadow shave a lot to practice my hand positioning and stroke. I don't want to hijack this thread and will ask questions about the quality of my blade in another thread.

Thanks.

Take a look under member services in the Classifieds for honers close to you.

James.