Razor Burn... educate us!!

Wasn't really sure where to post this, so I just settled on Beginners. If this is incorrect, please feel free to move it to a more appropriate area.

So, razor burn. We've all gotten it. I am particularly prone to it, especially on my neck on both sides, parallel to adam's apple below ears. In fact, my interested in straight razors is a direct result of my quest to beat the burn. I have tried almost EVERY commerical product, aftershave balm, lotion, technique, razor and cartridge (1, 2, 3, 4, .....12 blade system) to avoid this painful and unsightly problem. All in vain. I believe that a straight razor with proper technique might finally allow me a cure, and the ability to shave more often than once every three days without feeling like I did so with 20 grit sandpaper topped off with a salt and an alcohol aftershave :mad:...... but only time will tell.
I would like to initiate a discussion as to what actually causes razor burn. I dont know if there is a definitive answer to this, but I have my theories, as I am sure alot of you do.

I dont think that razor burn has anything to do with the hair, or how it is cut (directly at least). I personally think that razor burn is caused by the relationship of the blade across the exposed skin IN BETWEEN the hairs, on over the skin once hairs have been removed. In essence, even if a razor is dull and pulling, I dont hink this would cause razor burn... however, if a razor is dull, and requires several passes to smooth out stubble, razor burn develops, and worsens with each pass over the now tender skin. If we all used one pass and called it done, I dont think razor burn would even be an issue... but you wouldnt have smooth skin beacause I dont care how sharp your blade is, you will not get a clean shave with one pass.....
So the question becomes the balance between creating a smooth shave and eliminating skin irritation. I think this comes down to balde angle (in theory). finding the appropriate angle that chops hair, but doesnt scrape off layers upon layers of skin with each pass.

This, of course, is just MY theory.
I'll turn it over to you guys.

It's really very simple. It's caused by the action of the blade over your skin. But more specifically if you use the wrong angle and/ or apply too much pressure. With folks starting out with a straight it can be due partially to you skin being accustomed to the new shave method. Certain strokes seem to bring it on like ATG. Also doing too many strokes over the skin can bring it on as can using a dull razor.

Of course added to the mix would be individual skin sensitivities and skin conditions.

I've never found any product that really neutralizes or prevents severe burn. Probably the best product I've found is the Thayers medicated Witch hazel.

+1 with what TBS said. Also what I suggest is to let your beard grow out a couple of days and see what directions your hair grows because you may think you are going WTG but infact you could be doing an ATG pass. Personally my hair grows from down and towards the ears on my cheeks, straight towards the ears along my jaw and just under, and up and towards the ears at the bottom of my neck. So with all these different directions I had a tough time getting good shaves when I started. Now I Know that for my skin which can be sensitive I can only do 2 pass that are a hybrid WTG and a hybrid XTG pass.

i also used to have razor burns and tried all the products out there until i discovered straight razors. With time i learned and developed my method for shaving and now i have clean shaves that i would say are around 80-90% BBS without a hint of razor burns.

anyway,,,,,, this is what i would do

wash your face with as much hot water as you can (if you shave before showering like me)
lather for a minimum of 5 minutes on face not in a bowl

(cream or soap is up to you,,but please tell us in your posts what do you use for lather)

sacrifice on the BBS ( its ok ),,,dont go ATG as much as you can.

shower after in order to remove any residued oil,,alcohol,,,or anything that is human made on your face :P:P:P:P

after the shower wash with cold water. avoid contact of materials such as whool close to the area shaved...and finally......hope for the best,,trial and error will get you there
what wouldnt get you there,,,,,mach 3 ,,gilette ,,goo in a can and all that

good luck bro

yeah, even before playing with straights my shaving experience has improved quite a bit by really working on my preshave routine, and by learning how my hair grows.
The condensed version of my routine is:
Shower, wash fase with preshave face wash (in shower), work conditioner into facial hair (while in shower), rinse, get out, presoak brush, get lather going, splash face with more hot water, apply lather, let it sit while I get my razors out, do my stropping.. ect. , with hot towel wipe off first lather, splash again with hot water and re-lather, do first pass (with grain), rinse, re-lather, do second pass (x-grain), rinse with hot water, re-lather, do third pass on not-so-sensitive areas, rinse with hot water, apply hot towel, rinse with cold water, apply cold towel, apply afershave balm (nivea for men/sensitive skin), once that dries apply cocoa-butter lotion (I love that stuff!!)

I shave my "face" every day and get "everything" (including neck) every other day (to keep irritation down), but am hopeful that ONE DAY, I will be able to shave all of it every day with comfort.

Starting tomorrow I will be adding some sort of oil to my preshave routine (probably baby oil) in between the shower and the first lather. I will try that for a few weeks and see if I have any improvement.

Thanks for all the tips guys. I am really interested in you theories on what causes razor burn, in the hopes that the cause could be used to sort of reverse-engineer a solution (i.e. razor burn is caused by friction from the blade against skin - thus the solution: skin needs more lubrication). barring that, I will just continue what I have been doing, as it seems to be helping quite a bit.

An I correct in thinking that razor burn is not the result of hair tuggin?... i.e. you can have a shave where the razor is tuggin a bit, but still be free of burn afterwards? Not that mine is doing that, I am just trying to look at this in a cause/effect manor.

Razor burn is caused by the friction of the razor against your skin causing the hair follicles to catch on fire. It's science.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Razor burn is caused by the friction of the razor against your skin causing the hair follicles to catch on fire. It's science.

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Wasn't it The Fonz in Happy Days who said "I wondered where the smoke came from"?

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Razor burn is caused by the friction of the razor against your skin causing the hair follicles to catch on fire. It's science.

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No No....it's not fire,how absurd. It's an electrical Micro charge.Where did you go two skool ?

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Originally Posted by Nightblade

No No....it's not fire,how absurd. It's an electrical Micro charge.Where did you go two skool ?

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Actually, you're both wrong. Everyone knows that your pores and hair follicles are mini volcanos and dragging the razor over them causes them to erupt. The redness you see is actually the lava spreading under your skin.

As was mentioned before,cartridge razors are just harsh to begin with.I suspect once you start using a straight,things should get better for you as it will teach you to go slower and be a lot more lighthanded.Not saying you don't have sensitive skin to begin with,but this might be your answer. Just in case and not saying this will do the trick ,but Al's shaving makes some wonderful Balms that you might want to try later on down the road and also Mitchells wool fat shaving soap is very very good srtuff.It has lots of good lanolin in it which is really good for sensitive skin.:gl:

I feel a slight need to interject a little.. we've got the friction/burn relationship down.. and pre-shave routine is important. Though the beginner SR shaver may not be technically proficient enough to make use of the higher-end of edge smoothness I think it is important to emphasize that a really smoothed out shaving edge can unexpectedly result in a very close shave with minimal damage/burn to the skin. It can be surprising. And done more efficiently because it's with less strokes on the given area.

I think this may be why some people find themselves gravitating to ever "sharper" (smoother) shaving edges. To a point. I will say I've been a beginner with the J.B. Williams and had a thick, yet drier "lather" (think it must have collapsed) and achieved classic razor burn. It dried out because I was taking too long (using a str8) and was lazy with re-lathering/re-wetting. So of course everything matters and is ultimately a co-factor in the final results.

If the razor is dull and pulling think about what is happening in the interaction between the razor and your skin. That's contributing to burn. They are not unrelated. You have blade angle ideas, which is good. Some people think that doing that aggressive ATG necessitates a lower angle because slicing through those hairs at an angle may be pushing the blade into the skin, scooping the flesh. Interesting theory and difficult to watch (as it's microscopic level) but I have to admit I've imagined that exact same thing myself.

But, to the OP, please don't get too caught up in it all. Try stropping before the shower, leave it in a dry place. Even try closing more than the bathroom/shower door to limit that insidious humidity from entering your razor's room. Let the brush soak during your shower, you can even try whipping up a lather or loading the brush before shower/face-wash/prep time. You may not need to mess around with hair conditioners, etc.

It's nice that you're "into" it, but you may be overcomplicating things a bit. If you start shaving with an open razor I think an important point to begin with is limit your directions so you can limit the aggressiveness of your shave. Go slower, if you're really getting into the whole routine. The important part of the pre-shave prep for hydrating the columns of keratin growing out of your "face" and "everything" else is to wash the oil/fat off your hair, allowing the water (usually with the help of heat) and any other compounds (including what's in the pre-shave or shaving product) to work it's magic. Try to simplify what you're doing immediately before the shave, such as the pre-stropping and having at least an already soaked brush. Fiddle with extras later.

And be careful with friction other than the shaving edge. Specifically washing the residual lather off between passes as well as the end of the shave, the final wash. Of course these shaving soaps and creams do better for our skin if we get them off (the drying effect of residual glycerin left on the skin comes to mind) but being gentle is still important (skin on skin friction). As an aside, a beginner who falls in love with his own face, faceturbating away... may be interfering with the accuracy of appraising the after-shave skin irritation (particularly if that is extended to the 2nd or 3rd days after the shave).

I'm with wmac on the directions and mapping your face. Hugely important. If you're going for the whole pre-shave thing in the shower it's hardly asking too much for a little face-mapping (or beard-mapping). When I was a beginner I did some relatively aggressive shaving (by the direction of the beard growth) and eliminated almost all the hairs on the more difficult parts of my face (region+direction modified by difficult stretching). Not completely, but wowee-heck-jeewhiz can an open razor take care of hairs. It was a shave-ready straight from a member here, and it's edge was no doubt superior to my shaving ability (hit and miss).

My personal "thing", about a difficult region, is that some people have more acutely slanted columns of keratin jutting out of their face. The open razor (smiling or straight) is the ultimate adjustable razor. Next is fixed head safety razors (not just DEs), but the adjustment or modification of angle is meager compared to the open razor. The pivoting heads of the disposables/cartridges negate such shaving theoretics.

It is possible to shave very close, with far less (or no) irritation developing. The science of course is dependent on the skill/luck of the handler, but some of these razors I've used have amazed me not just during the shave but after.

There is also the matter of smoothness of the skin, without the red/pink of any burn, the next day for a daily shaver. Especially for a beginner, that may become a significant co-factor in the irritation situation of the shave. 48 hours after the last shave is still a lot better than 24 hours, it's just the nature of our skin. Maybe some people it's not a big deal for, but for plenty it is. I've recently shaved with a 4 day scruff and was quite impressed with the closeness of the shave, particularly over the difficult region. Just washed the oil off my face, hot/wet towel for adequate length of time, and shaved. I've shaved with the same straight until it does start to pull and tug. There are things I can't really do with an open razor after it dulls to a certain extent.

And after all that.......You also might want to consider cold water shaving as it gives a nice close shave and is quite soothing. Keep it primitive and simple and the blade will be elegant to you.:gl: Don't over think.

The relationship between "pulling" and razor burn is that if the blade is not sharp enough to easily cut hair then more pressure is required to shave the whiskers. That can cause razor burn.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Razor burn is caused by the friction of the razor against your skin causing the hair follicles to catch on fire. It's science.

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That's pretty much my answer. It starts with a nice, sharp blade. Many mult-blade systems cause razor burn as you have multiple blades, often not sharp enough, rubbing an area of skin.

Take it a step further you've likely been shaving in the wrong directions. Many of us shave in multiple directions according to our hair growth. I have one spot on my neck that can still get irritation from time to time. I can't turn my straight razor good enough to shave this area so I end up going against the grain on the first pass unavoidably.