Some help with my technique please

Gentleman,

I am having a bit of trouble getting a smooth shave with the Griffon Carbmagnetic XX I picked up from Lynn. I have been using a safety razor (Merkur Futur) for some time and get excellent shaves with that. I am not sure what the deal is with the straight but I experience a lot of drag with the blade. With the Futur I am very used to paying close attention to the angle and do the same with the straight. I have tried several angles on my face an none seem to make the razor cut any smoother.While I have been lucky enough to not spill any blood, I have recieved the worst case of razor burn on my lower cheeks and jaw line all three times I have used it. I am using one of the four sided paddle strops made by Tony by the way.

Here is my routine:

Hot shower (I usually apply a little conditioner to my neck at this point)
Soak badger brush and work up a lather (Truefitt and Hill)
Apply lather to my face and let sit
Strop 30-40 round trips
Apply hot towel
Reapply warm lather
shave
Truefitt and Hill aftershave.


Any tips on what I can do to get a closer shave without drag and razor burn? I have watched Lynn's video and read the help files.

Thanks for any input.

Hi JBahn,

Your beard prep appears to be o.k. What kind of strop do you have and how many laps are you putting on the razor before you shave? If you strop wrong (e.g. too much pressure or failure to keep razor flat to the strop) you can dull the edge. Another factor can be blade angle to the face. The razor should be one to two spine widths away from the face, maybe more or maybe less depending on your face and what area you're shaving. Another factor can be failing to stretch the skin tight enough. Usually it's one or more of those things that results in a poor shave.

Ed

If you're getting burn then it's the pressure. Or the stropping, but it sounds like you're stropping enough, so it's probably the pressure. Used properly, straights are much easier on the skin than even a DE. Back when I was experimenting with the feather and my skin got so thin it would start bleeding if I rubbed it, I could still shave with a straight without incident.

I think stropping may be the issue. With the paddle is seems difficult to strop effectively without putting pressure on the blade.

Will a strop work just as well if you run the razor on it slow?

I was thinking of picking up a hanging strop as it seems that might be easier to keep the blade in contact with too much pressure.

Also, should every razor be able to pass the HHT? I never could get this one to do it.

No, not every razor passes the HHT. I never could get a Feather blade to pass it, and those blades are by far the sharpest thing I've ever seen. My own blades I hone till they will pop the hairs on my arm if I hold the blade about 1/8 inch off my arm. However, the real test is how it shaves.

It is also possible that you've dulled the edge with the strop (I ruined my first edge that way).

Well, if the blade was sharpened by Lynn you know that the fault lies with your technique.

Remember that Rome was not built in a day and learning straight shaving takes much practice and patience. Facility with the razor will come with use and the few things you need to remember have already been said. Just remember to become comfortable with holding the razor in different positions and then watch your blade angle and keep the skin stretched and use no pressure on the blade. Let the blade do all the work. I think most here will tell you that when they started they suffered irritation for some time.

Some pick up the skill fast and more easily and some more slowly with more pain but everyone picks it up. Remember ,at one time everybody shaved this way so if they could master it a hundred years ago so can you.

I'm guessing you know about the 20 to 30 degree angle (spine to face ratio) and about pulling your skin tight, making the whiskers stand up better.

The first key thing that stuck out to me was the paddle strop. the 2nd was the "putting pressure on it. My guess is you've possibly dulled the blade a bit by putting too much pressure onto the blade.

Before you decide you've done that I would suggest getting or making a hanging strop. Do you have a wide belt that's at least 2 inches wide and has a smooth finish? if not go to a local shoe repair shop and ask if they've got any thick smooth leather you can use to make a strop. ask for a piece that's around 3 inches wide by 26 to 36 inches long. put a couple grommets in the top and run a shoe string through it. This will run you about 4 to 8 bucks total and will do until you can get a nice hanging strop. If you've got the belt that will work too.

soften the leather with armor all or lexol or something similar. hook it onto a door knob or something and pull it tight. try about 40 to 60 rounds with almost no extra pressure on the blade. If it still shaves badly then hone it or send it back to Lynn for another honing. He's pretty good about that stuff.

Also, some blades need to be restropped between "passes" I'm assuming you know that passes means to shave the whole face with the grain the first time then the 2nd pass is shaving either cross grain or against the grain.

I appreciate the advice very much.

I believe I had just dulled the edge by improper stropping. So I set aside some time and did a few runs on the pasted side of the padle and then really concentrated on stroping with correct technique. My face is still pretty raw but I shaved a small section and I think the razor is much better now. I am going to wait for my face to hear before I give it another run though.

I also order a hanging strop second from Tony to give it a go and see if it is perhaps a little easier to strop with.

Seems so much can go wrong with the traditional straight....perhaps I should have gone with a feather.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBahn

Seems so much can go wrong with the traditional straight....perhaps I should have gone with a feather.

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Don't give up. Once you get the hang of it, a str8 is so much nicer (IMHO) than anything else.

I think you're on the right track, JBahn. You're just making the usual mistakes out of the gate.

I think stropping slowly and taking the extra time to do the dozen or so extra laps in order that the blade will have the same opportunity to be affected by the strop is a very good idea for the new shaver. While you're going slow, you can take the opportunity to really watch the action of the blade on the strop very closely. Ensure that the whole edge is being stropped, that you are not rolling over the edge or dragging the blade along the edge of the strop. All these things coupled with excess strop pressure will equal a dulled edge. I also prefer a hanging strop for daily duty.

Don't be too quick to blame the edge. You might be confident that you have done adequate beard prep, but be sure. Overdo it and then you can rule out that possibility. Do the full three hot towels with lather before each. It'll not only absolutely get the wiriest beard ready, but you'll love yourself for doing it. Also work carefully to get those stretches as tight as you possibly can. If you can't pull any tighter, then that's another factor ruled out. Blade angle has been mentioned as well as pressure to the face with the edge so be careful there too.

Finally, as has already been alluded to, it takes time for your face to get used to the aggresive nature of a straight razor shave. Most guys, myself included, go about two weeks of every other day shaves before the face is tough enough to take it on daily without getting too tender.

X

I would also agree here that the edge has NOT been dulled by stropping. I would say that a hanging strop is in order. There is a lot of technique to getting a good shave. I started out on a shave ready razor like you. I thought it wasn't sharp and emailed the person I got it from. I went back to the strop until it would pass the hanging hair test. That alone was hard to do, even harder on a paddle strop. Then the months of learning how to shave...

Glen

Here's what worked for me...

I had to unlearn many bad habits such as digging and scraping with the blade. I had to stop those compulsive repeated strokes over the same area trying to achieve the perfect shave.

Also, I switched to shaving and then showering. Most of what I was calling razor burn was really poor rinsing of my face and subsequent irritation from the shaving soap.

You'll find your way with experience.

Cheers,
LG Roy

Thanks again for the info,

Last night I ran the blade across the paddle strop so that it would pass the HHT. And it finally did.

I just finished up shaving since the restropping and the blade still doesnt seem sharp enough. I have ordered hanging strop to see if that can make a difference for me.

I have a very thick and heavy facial hair and even with my Futur I had a hard time finding blades that were sharp enough. Finally I came across Feather blades and they where just perfect.

This might be silly but are there straight razors that are known for being extremely sharp? Might the Feather Artist Clubs be a better way to go?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBahn

[...]
This might be silly but are there straight razors that are known for being extremely sharp? Might the Feather Artist Clubs be a better way to go?

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Just to give you an alternative opinion, absolute sharpness may not be your problem, but rather how long the blade will stay sharp. A heavy/coarse beard can dull a sharp razor pretty quickly (usually, this can be restored through stropping, though)
Do you experience this dragging with the grain or only against the grain ?

Redwoood

I experience it with the grain and usually the first stroke I take with the straight is ok, it is the second stroke that drags. The hair on my neck isnt quite as thick and the skin is a little softer, on my neck I can get great shaves with little to no irritation. It is just on my checks and upper jaw where I get irritation and a bad shave.

JBahn,

I have a stiff beard as well...one thing that helps me is to strop whenever the razor starts to pull, I have some razors I can shave my entire face with, others I need to strop three times:

...Once while the lather is soaking on my face (50 laps)

...Once after my cheeks and upper lip (20 laps)

...once after my chin (20 laps)

For me the heavy 1/4 hollow grinds make it through the whole shave, the full hollows need to go back to the strop mid-shave.

Dave

Tobico,

That is one thing that passed my mind.l This blade seems so frail and flimsee; almost like it is sturdy enough to move through my beard. I was curious a razor with a less of a hollow would be a little better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JBahn

Tobico,

That is one thing that passed my mind.l This blade seems so frail and flimsee; almost like it is sturdy enough to move through my beard. I was curious a razor with a less of a hollow would be a little better.

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Don't mistake the apparent flimseeness of a blade as a sign of some weakness. Sharp is sharp and the lightest 4/8s razor can give you every bit as good a shave as a 8/8s wedge meat chopper.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Don't mistake the apparent flimseeness of a blade as a sign of some weakness. Sharp is sharp and the lightest 4/8s razor can give you every bit as good a shave as a 8/8s wedge meat chopper.

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That is very true. Sharp is sharp and that is all you need to take a beard off.:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichZ

That is very true. Sharp is sharp and that is all you need to take a beard off.:cool:

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I've got wood chisels of different sizes and different grades of steel. the thinner chisels and the softer metals have to be stropped more often than the thicker ones.

Sharp is sharp but for how long makes a difference, especially on wiry beards or dry beards.

:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUD

I've got wood chisels of different sizes and different grades of steel. the thinner chisels and the softer metals have to be stropped more often than the thicker ones.

Sharp is sharp but for how long makes a difference, especially on wiry beards or dry beards.

:p

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Yes, but when they are all sharp do they work?
Didn't say it was forever only that it would work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichZ

Yes, but when they are all sharp do they work?
Didn't say it was forever only that it would work.

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Of course, but why chisel out half a design before stropping if I can chisel out a whole design before stropping? ;). Likewise, with a shave. I'd much prefer to shave the whole face before stropping versus shaving half or 3/4 the face.

I have yet to have to restrop during a shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FUD

Of course, but why chisel out half a design before stropping if I can chisel out a whole design before stropping? ;). Likewise, with a shave. I'd much prefer to shave the whole face before stropping versus shaving half or 3/4 the face.

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I have yet to restrop during a shave no matter what size razor I use.

Several of my carbon steel razors need restropping before I tackle the goatee area during the second pass. But my little Neistrom does both passes just fine, and the big Friodurs do fine as well.

All I can say is you gentlemen are blessed. Every razor I've used, no matter who honed it, has had to be restropped before the 2nd pass.