Hello all, need some help.

So I am new here and new to straight shaves. I have been doing pretty good but as many people I have having a little trouble below by chin on my neck. The hairs lie very flat and down and when I stretch my skin they lay even flatter and retract it seems. The only way to get them to pop up is to bullfrog my neck and shave ATG. I am a little nervous to do this with a straight as the skin is very flat but also very loose when you do this, does anyone else have to do this and are there any tips or consiquences, ouch.

Thanks again

The best way I have found to attack under my chin is to shave every thing on one plane then move down to the next. If you attack a little section at a time and have a good sharp blade and the 30 degree angle they suggest you should be able to pop the hairs. It just takes some time to get use to it. In the begining do not feel bad if you get uncomfortable and have to retreat to your old way of shaving. The confidence will come as you get more shaves under your belt.

I have the same problem with that area. I go WTG on the first pass using a slightly more oblique angle, maybe 40 degrees. Then, on the next pass I go ATG using a very flat angle, around 10 degrees. In both cases, and especially on the ATG pass, use VERY light pressure. As I get close to going around the chin on the ATG, I flare the angle away from the skin, and actually end up with a net negative angle at the very end.

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Originally Posted by flyman

I have the same problem with that area. I go WTG on the first pass using a slightly more oblique angle, maybe 40 degrees. Then, on the next pass I go ATG using a very flat angle, around 10 degrees. In both cases, and especially on the ATG pass, use VERY light pressure. As I get close to going around the chin on the ATG, I flare the angle away from the skin, and actually end up with a net negative angle at the very end.

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Awesome man, thanks

Grow a goatee :D...


Mick

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Originally Posted by flyman

I have the same problem with that area. I go WTG on the first pass using a slightly more oblique angle, maybe 40 degrees. Then, on the next pass I go ATG using a very flat angle, around 10 degrees. In both cases, and especially on the ATG pass, use VERY light pressure. As I get close to going around the chin on the ATG, I flare the angle away from the skin, and actually end up with a net negative angle at the very end.

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I'm getting confused here. An oblique angle is any angle that is not a right angle or a multiple of a right angle. An acute angle is an angle that measures less than 90 degrees. When you referred to your WTG pass as "slightly more oblique", at 40 degrees, did you mean that it was a more acute angle? It actually was less acute than the standard 30 degree angle.

Shaving is tough enough without getting mathematics involved in it, but I think the correct analysis would be that at 40 degrees you were utilizing an oblique angle that was less acute than the standard 30 degree angle. If you lay the blade flat on your face, then you have what is referred to as a straight angle (180 degrees). If you then lift up the spine to shave ATG with a very acute angle, then you have either an acute angle vis-a-vis the face as the relevant plane or an obtuse angle vis-a-vis the space above the face as the relevant plane.

I think the problem with the concept of "a net negative angle at the very end" is that it brings us all dangerously close to one of two very bad possibilities. One, a net negative angle may involve the blade actually being imbedded in one's face, and we are all pretty much in agreement that that is a net negative thing to have happen. Secondly, and even worse, a net negative angle brings us all perilously close to the creation of a black hole which would essentially create a gigantic vacuum that would consume all our soaps, creams, brushes, strops, hones, and razors and leave us with only cartridges and canned goo.

My third pass is ATG and I "bullfrog" my neck and cheeks to get it to work. Just make sure your angle is way less than 30 degrees and you can make it work. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by ace

I'm getting confused here. An oblique angle is any angle that is not a right angle or a multiple of a right angle. An acute angle is an angle that measures less than 90 degrees. When you referred to your WTG pass as "slightly more oblique", at 40 degrees, did you mean that it was a more acute angle? It actually was less acute than the standard 30 degree angle.

Shaving is tough enough without getting mathematics involved in it, but I think the correct analysis would be that at 40 degrees you were utilizing an oblique angle that was less acute than the standard 30 degree angle. If you lay the blade flat on your face, then you have what is referred to as a straight angle (180 degrees). If you then lift up the spine to shave ATG with a very acute angle, then you have either an acute angle vis-a-vis the face as the relevant plane or an obtuse angle vis-a-vis the space above the face as the relevant plane.

I think the problem with the concept of "a net negative angle at the very end" is that it brings us all dangerously close to one of two very bad possibilities. One, a net negative angle may involve the blade actually being imbedded in one's face, and we are all pretty much in agreement that that is a net negative thing to have happen. Secondly, and even worse, a net negative angle brings us all perilously close to the creation of a black hole which would essentially create a gigantic vacuum that would consume all our soaps, creams, brushes, strops, hones, and razors and leave us with only cartridges and canned goo.

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Wow, now you have me confused. That last comment sorta reminds me of the time I put instant coffee in the microwave and almost went back in time. I guess my terminology is faulty. Just to try to clear a couple of things up: When I said a 40 degree angle, I meant the spine of the razor is raised so that the angle between the edge and the skin relative to the direction of travel is 40 degrees. When I said 10 degrees on the ATG, I meant that I hold the razor at a flatter angle so that the edge forms a 10 degree angle to the skin relative to the direction of travel. You said a flat blade against the skin forms a 180 degree angle. From my perspective, this would be true if the razor was being moved in a stropping motion. It is my perception that a flat blade against the skin when shaving is in a 0 degree angle. When I reach the round of the chin in the ATG pass, I articluate the edge away from the skin. That is what I meant by flaring away to a net negative angle. In other words, at the very end of the stroke, the edge is actually lifted off the skin, leaving only the spine in contact. Sorry about the confusion. Now I am going back to ponder the relevance of the space time continuum in the spacio-temporal constraints of my shave den.

Don't fret...it'll all come together.

Although I got a long goat, so not fair for me to advise technique at the chin. My challange is not cutting those long hairs. Now ask me about shaving blind at the back of your melon, got loads to share, hahaha

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Originally Posted by flyman

Wow, now you have me confused. That last comment sorta reminds me of the time I put instant coffee in the microwave and almost went back in time. I guess my terminology is faulty. Just to try to clear a couple of things up: When I said a 40 degree angle, I meant the spine of the razor is raised so that the angle between the edge and the skin relative to the direction of travel is 40 degrees. When I said 10 degrees on the ATG, I meant that I hold the razor at a flatter angle so that the edge forms a 10 degree angle to the skin relative to the direction of travel. You said a flat blade against the skin forms a 180 degree angle. From my perspective, this would be true if the razor was being moved in a stropping motion. It is my perception that a flat blade against the skin when shaving is in a 0 degree angle. When I reach the round of the chin in the ATG pass, I articulate the edge away from the skin. That is what I meant by flaring away to a net negative angle. In other words, at the very end of the stroke, the edge is actually lifted off the skin, leaving only the spine in contact. Sorry about the confusion. Now I am going back to ponder the relevance of the space time continuum in the spacio-temporal constraints of my shave den.

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No confusion at all, really. It's important to be precise about angle, especially when going around the chin with a sharp blade. I think in this case conceptualizing your angle with the blade flat is probably both 180 degrees and 0 degrees, a kind of geometric semantics. Your explanation of net negative angle is well-taken too. You won't cut any whiskers with a net negative angle, but you won't cut your chin either, and it's a perfectly reasonable way to finish an ATG stroke. I do the opposite on all strokes around the chin and attempt to increase the angle as I go while simultaneously lightening any pressure applied. Angle and pressure Increasing the angle achieves better cutting of whiskers but with the attendant risk to the skin surface. That's why any attempt to increase angle has to be accompanied with reduction in pressure to an absolute minimum (maybe even a net negative pressure, to use your well-explained phrase (that now makes sense to me, thanks!)). I think it was Xman who made a video in which it looked like he had the blade vertical, at 90 degrees to the skin. If you're really good, and really careful, I think you can shave this way around the chin, but the pressure has to be absolutely minimal. You'll be reminded when it's not, very quickly. I am trying these days to raise the angle as I round the chin, with WTG, XTG. and ATG passes. It does seem to work well, but any change in minimal pressure quickly draws blood. It's a work in progress.

And here's a video in which the blade is near vertical at times.

YouTube - Shaving With A Straight Razor...

I have the same problem as you. I've been shaving with straights for about 4 months now and I am only beginning to get it worked out. One problem that I was having is that as I worked my way under my jaw line my shaving angle was decreasing (meaning that the razor was laying down flatter so a "less aggressive" cut was being made). This was partially because I was a little uncomfortable shaving this part of my face and also because the curvature makes it a tricky place to shave. Try experimenting with different angles and directions. Make sure that as you curve the razor around underneath your jaw line you keep the shaving angle where you want it. Recently I've also discovered that a XTG stroke works well for me in a few tricky spots. I can say that after around 3 months of really bad shaves I am finally starting to notice it is getting easier. Don't get discouraged - Good luck!

It took me about 100 shaves before I would even consider raising the angle. It takes a certain amount of dexterity and practice to build up the confidence to do it, and that is as it should be. Getting pressure under control is what makes it possible.

It's going to take some time, period. I go, up and down on my neck. Most guys neck hair grows sideways, making bbs near impossible. You do the best you can. Watch your angle. The neck is notorious for irritation. Also, watch how much pressure you apply. The more comfortable you are with str8 shaving, the better your shaves get, so just be patient...Oh, I too have a Goatee.....

Have been straight razor shaving for three months now. I had the same problem until I got the DVD "World of Straight Razor Shaving" from Lynn. You can find it in the Classifieds on this forum. After watching it my shaving became much easier. I only do two passes now and my face is much smoother than any other method of shaving I have tried. I am still a newbie but I never resort to my DE razor anymore.