Newbie f/t Dark Side

Hello Gents. My name is Todd and I am a straight razor newbie. Firstly, I would like to thank the SRP community for the resources made available here. You have made it rather easy to build a foundation of knowledge and understanding before jumping blindly into a potentially dangerous task. When I say blindly, I am being quite literal. In addition to being a newbie, I am also visually impaired, one hundred percent in fact. That said, I still downloaded and made use of Lynn's video, with the aid of my significant other. Well, after I set her straight on left/right mirror images. ::)
Yesterday, I received my newbie, starter kit. (Thanks T.M.) After finishing "The Art of the Straight Razor Shave A Basic Guide" by Christopher Moss, I decided to give it a go. Now my intent was to start small. I thought I would try a few strokes down my cheeks, starting at my sideburns and finishing after x amount of lacerations. I was unstoppable! With the exception of my upper lip and one small line along my chin bone, I shaved my entire face without a single cut. There were several moments when I stopped and backed off the stroke, where I was sure I was going to come away bloody, but to my surprise it did not occur. Now it was far from uneventful and being wrought with technical skill. I am sure my video if shot, would be shamefully hilarious.
Here is where I ask for your wisdom and feedback. Several things arose during my enthusiastic attempt. First is a question concerning lather. I had a lot of trouble with drying and sticking that slowed down the razor. I had to keep wetting my face and reapplying soap. I did add a little more water to the mix in my mug, but still found myself wetting my face with dabs of water. Second and biggest question has to do with razor burn. Before I was done and especially afterwards, I felt as though my face had been sand blasted. Actually, my neck is worse than my face. Now I already knew I have sensitive skin but I am certain I can minimize this through improved technique. I have a few ideas on where I need improvement; please chime in with your expertise. With my lathering difficulties, I think I probably did a bit of dry shaving, especially on my second pass against the growth. Also, do to over cautious concern and old habits; I probably did make far too many short strokes.
All in all, I am very pleased with my first attempt, and am confident that with a little guidance and practice, I will master this method. This pleases me to no end, for I am very tired of supporting the shaving industry and polluting the environment in this fashion.

Wow! Congratulations on your successful shave! Sorry about the razor burn, but any straight shave that doesn't end in the ER is something to be proud of.

As for the drying lather, it could be caused by using too little water, or it could be that it simply took you a long time to shave. Both of these are common when starting out, and aren't really a big deal. The solution is to simply dip the tip of your brush in a little water and brush your face again to re-wet the lather. Another way is to lather and shave smaller areas of your face so the lather doesn't get a chance to dry out.

As for the irritation: That can be caused by a number of things. Too much pressure is very common for beginners, and from your description it sounds like this was definitely an issue. Using too steep an angle on the blade can also do this. Dry shaving can also cause this because the razor sticks and digs into the skin instead of slipping across it. It can also be caused by a dull razor, or a unstropped razor (just so you know, bad stropping technique can also dull the razor -- I did this myself when I was learning).

Welcome on board, Toddo!

When the lather dries too quickly, it usually means it did not contain enough water. This shaving soaps/creams can hold an astonishing amount of water, so don't be shy when preparing the lather. It's nice to have stiff lather, but if you achieve it by having too much soap in the mix, it will dry quickly. Rather, try putting in some elbow grease <grin>
I think the razor burn issue could be connected to the first problem. Try getting more water into it and see how you do. Also, make sure you prepare your face properly, with hot towels and everything. Just relax and enjoy the preparation as part of the ritual. Again, with more water in the lather, you can also let the lather sit on your face longer before you start shaving. It will help in softening up your beard. Finally, a straight shave is quite close. Your skin is probably not used to it, so it's reacting badly. Just give it some time.

Redwoood

congratulations on your first shave under what must be trying circomstances,you are a braver soul than me .Ive been at this a while now and still regularly draw blood,so it seems to me you did rather well ,welcome aboard
Kind regards Peter

Congratulations Todd,
Welcome to our wonderful addiction! If I were to guess at the root causes to all of the symptoms you mention, they would be 1) not enough water in your lather 2) It typically takes your face a week or two to get used to any new shaving system...particularly a straight. 3) You were pretty aggressive for a first time out, shaving against the grain can cause some irritation for an experienced straight razor user 4) technique...it takes awhile to get comfortable with the system and although your story is pretty amazing, I've heard of very few first timers that completed an entire shave, I'd bet that as you become more comfortable with a straight your irritation will be significantly less. Make sure you use little or no pressure during the shave. 5) finally, is your razor truely sharp? Given the fact that you were not only able to complete the shave, but that it included an against the grain pass I would bet that you have a shave ready razor, but be aware that a less than sharp blade will certainly cause irritation.
Again welcome. Keep us informed on your progress and feel free to ask about anything at all.
Cheers,
Ed

Todd,

Welcome aboard and congratulations.
Really nothing that I can add to the
great advise that you have already
received. Keep it up though and things
will only get better....:)


Terry

I am also curious what shave cream or soap you are using? Is it the Williams that comes with Tony's kit (assuming thats who you meant) or do you have osmething else?

Hi guys, and thanks for the welcomes, gratz, and tips. I am wondering aprox. how much water for the Williams. Yes, my newbie kit is from Tony, so my razor was shave ready. Of course, now I'll have to strop for the first time for my next shave. Thank goodness I have a light beard and only need to shave every two to three days, depending on what I'm doing. Of course this means I don't get as much practice either . :)
I do plan to investigate further product, and it sounds like I could stand to use some Witch Hazel astringent.

I want to thank-you for shaking up my impression of the blind. I've been straight shaving for exactly one year and through the whole time I though of the old days when there were no safety razors and what conditions men might be in that would make it impossible for them to shave. Total blindness was one of them. I'm so glad I was wrong.

The advice given so far is spot on IMHO. I would only add that a wire edge will also cause great irritation, but you're not there with a shave ready razor from Tony.

To respond to a few things you said;

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toddo

Of course, now I'll have to strop for the first time for my next shave.

---

That could be part of your problem as well. Even though Tony stropped that razor before sending it to you, you need to strop immediately before each shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toddo

I do plan to investigate further product, and it sounds like I could stand to use some Witch Hazel astringent.

---

I like it.

Please keep in touch with how it's going. You're a fantastic inspiration.

X

Hello and welcome!:) You have been given some good advice here so I can only add a small piece.
Williams soap lacks oils to provide the "slide" in a shave. What I did was add ONE drop of mineral oil to the cake of soap while I was creating a lather. You could also use some face cream or lotion. The goal is to have some oils on your skin to provide the "slide".

Well, shave #2 is in the can. Funny thing, I started out more nervous this time than the first. :shrug: Maybe stropping for the first time gnawed at my confidence a little, more on that in a bit. I used more water with my soap, as per your' advice, and got a better lather. First pass with, second pass against, with some cross along the mandible toward the chin. Face is baby bottom soft, even did the top lip this time. Less razor burn than the first time, but still a couple of hot spots In fact, in the two hottest spots, I've managed to raise up a very small whelp in each spot. I also knicked the round, fleshy part left of the cleft in my chin. I'm sure my technique leaves something to be desire. I managed to hold the razor open at the 270 degrees for the first pass work, but once I get to second pass, I find myself contorting. I actually opened it up straight to go against the growth on my neck. I definitely feel like a newbie. In fact, I might be able to use a mentor.
This brings me to stropping. After reading numerous posts here, I realize that I should get a hanging strop ASAP. Currently I have the four-sided paddle strop. I'm not real sure if there is a recommended position for which to hold it. Somebody said something about a phonebook on a table, so that's what I tried. Then I tried holding it directly in front of me as well as to the side. Depending on where I held it, the angle of the paddle changed. I began tracing an X. I led with the spine, and went from heel to tip. I would flip the razor, push it up so as to start my return part of x with heal again. I notice several things that I need to correct. On the push forward, I'm having some difficulty keeping it flat, and rock some from tip to heel. On the return stroke is when I am prone to lift the spine. I managed to correct this one relatively quickly by easing up on my thumb pressure. I sometimes lose continuity, lifting the razor off the strop, especially at the end of the return stroke. I did manage some good sequences, and thank goodness, I don't think I messed up Tony's work. I did still get a very smooth shave.
I am wondering if I should get a camera to augment my skype. Then hook up with one of you chaps to set me straight, so to speak. That or find someone local who might be interested in being a part-time mentor. I know I've seen at least one other member from North Carolina. If anybody in the Raleigh area might be interested, send me a pm.

Toddo,

Let me make a recommendation on the hanging strop. Get a wide one 3"plus.
I have one I got from classic shaving and you do not have to do the X pattern. Its just up and down spine leading. I shave in the AM and since I am not a morning person I wanted somthing I would not have to think too much to use. I also believe Tony Miller has some wide strops (wellshavengentleman).

Well done on the shave and keep us updated on y progress.:cool:

Toddo, I find that unfomfortable or insecure hand positioning is the no 1 cause of cuts for me.
When you shave S-N against the grain you usually switch hand positioning. Check out the Lynn video again, and have it described to you by somebody. At the end, he does a second pass on the neck, and this is where you need to change the grip. I believe Chris Moss demonstrates the different grips as well.

Hang in there, Toddo :)

Redwoood

Toddo,

In terms of shaving, you're way ahead of me so I can't give you any advice there.

But as for the camera to use with skype, you may be able to avoid any additional cost there. I just use my videocam and have put quite a few people onto this "trick". If you only intend to do video conferencing irregularly, it is easier to connect your handycam (or borrow one from friends or family) than go through the hassle of shopping for a dedicated webcam.

Hope that saves you enough for a hanging strop or similar :)

Cheers
omniphile

Unbelievable, I never thought my face could possibly get any smoother without removing a layer of skin. Of course, that is exactly what I am doing, flaying my face with a straight razor. Still, I administered no nicks or cuts again this time. Plenty of sensitivity/razor burn as usual. I’m not sure if this is do to my relentless approach, poor technique, my sensitive skin, or all the above. Even so, I think that if I am doomed to repeat the sensitivity indefinitely, I am still converted to this method of shaving.

What kind of shaving cream were you using?

Congratz on no cuts. Its good progress :)

If you are able, give your face a day off between shaves once or twice this week. It's amazing how much additional healing will take place.

If you're anything like me, it took my skin about two weeks of straight razor shaving to adjust. Each time I changed my approach to attack problem spots...i.e. got more aggressive...there was another adjustment period. If you're getting good smooth shaves and not cutting yourself to shreds, I'd say you're on the right track.

If you can't take a day off of shaving, try a one-pass shave occasionally. It will give your face a break, but still give you a shave comparable to an electric.

Cheers,
Ed

You are an inspiration to me, Toddo! Your experience reminds me of an interview that I saw on TV years ago with Eric Hoffer, The Longshoreman Philosopher. He had lost his sight for a couple years as a young man, and said that even when he regained it, he preferred shaving in the dark. I wish I could remember the details on this.

The sharper your razor the fewer cuts you'll experience. I have had skin trouble for years whatever way of wet shaving I used. Even electric shaving irritated. My skin has always tolerated straight razor shaving best. Eventually I guess my skin "matured". I prefer shaving cream for sensitive skin. Cheap & cheerful are those made for sensitive skin by Gilette and Palmolive, the latter with added lanolin. They have less perfume added and the smell might put you off but the shave is better. Putting a facial cream on the skin before the lather, and after shave without alcohol have always helped me a lot.

Whats the big deal, I shave with my wifes eyes closed all the time.
On the serious side, I like to here about someone that has real focus and does what others say can't or shouldn't be done. A "man's gotta do what a man's gotta do." keep it up sir.

With true admiration

Rexj

Hi Toddo, and welcome to the world of straight razors... I have great admiration for you, for choosing this method of shaving.

Actually, A few days before I read your post, I was thinking about that exact same situation, and what would it be to shave when you cannot see what you are doing. I closed my eyes, and I did couple of strokes, suprisingly easy. I guess it's in the feel and trained dexterity of my hands. So, I can tell you it will be much easier for you, when your hands learn the paths around your face.

You will have to learn to maintain your razor by honing it, again action which requiers great deal of feel to it, so again I am confident you will be able to learn it quickly.

For the skin sensitivity... It is normal to get somewhat raw skin in the first couple of weeks to couple of months. If you can, give it a rest between shaves, and shave every second or third day. Also, the feeling of straight razor cutting the whiskers is a bit different than other methods, so that will take a bit of time using to it.

Pay atention to your preparation, wash your face with soap or take a shower before the shave, and in no time you will have the best shaves of your life, and a very enjoyable part of the day that you will be looking forward to...

have fun,
Nenad,

Let me start by saying thanks to all for your kind words and excellent advise. I am not always sure of forum etiquette, such as whether to respond to every individual reply or not. I want you to know that I do appreciate each and every post. Here is what I am about this time, shave number four. I decided to see what it would be like shaving after only two days instead of three, as all previous shaves thus far. The first pass was typical. not much different accept that I think I initially made longer strokes and had less sensitivity after the first pass. However, before I was finished, I was suffering from the usual fiery flesh. This is a definite pattern, which after some deliberation, I think I am settling on a primary cause. I am shaving much to aggressively. I am not nicking and cutting myself much, only one shave out of four have I inflicted myself with any sanguineous wounds. However, this flaying of my face needs resolution. At this point, I feel that I need to take more of the long strokes and decrease the excessive short strokes I’ve been taking. These short strokes are essentially giving me many passes over the recommended two to three. Additionally, I need to do less analyzing/evaluating until I am finished. I feel stubble and I want to eradicate it! What I forget about and am not used to, is that the pores are open, thus exposing more of the stubble. I have found after every shave, that I have gotten much closer and more of the stubble than I thought I was getting during the shave. I have to remember that the stubble will retract and the pores will close, leaving me with the desire close shave. These short, multiple passes to get at the stubble I feel are Old habits cultivated over years of commercial razor use. I am going to try very hard my next shave, to shave a little less aggressively with my newfound friend, the straight razor.

Toddo,
One other thing to recognize, when you take the first swipe (during a single pass) you are reducing the stubble, but you have removed the lather. Some residual will remain, but this will quickly be removed/dry out with another swipe over the same area. Multiple strokes after this is essentially dry shaving.

Bottom line, once the lather is gone, stop shaving that portion of your face until you relather. This should greatly reduce your skin irritation.

Just a thought,
Ed

Also try decreasing the angle of the blade. You may be going higher than 30 degrees (which is the optimal angle) and you need to reduce it even more in some areas. Very light pressure is required when shaving straight. After you complete the first pass (with the grain) there will be some hair that you will be able to feel. Just let it be, re-lather and go across the grain for the second pass. Most of it will disappear. If you want to go really aggressive, then you do the 3rd (against the grain) pass. Good luck and keep us posted.

P.S. This is an informal friendly place so you don't need to reply to every reply unless you have some questions or comments. As for the questions, we're more than happy to answer them as more knowledgeable people in our past were there to answer them for us.

I just want to repeat what Ilija just said about pressure. I find that using the pressure I was used to with a Track II was not only more agravating to my face, but gave me less close a shave. The rippling action of the skin under pressure seems to tuck the whiskers in a little as the blade passes over them. This makes one want to do extra passes which are no more effective than the first, but certainly add to the discomfort. An ultra sharp blade needs no pressure and shaves great. The rest is in good beard prep and the blade angle.

X

If I remember well you mentioned you do not have a heavy beard. I would suggest you do a single pass against the grain. Due to my sensitive skin I have experimented a lot and found that a single pass against the grain gives me a very smooth shave. I guess my beard is medium heavy if you like, the heaviest in the areas with the most sensitive skin (i.e. the neck). It might not be as perfect as more passes in different directions but sometimes you have to compromise. When my skin is wet I often feel stubble that I can't feel when the skin is dry. If I test the closeness of my shaves by rubbing my thumb on my dried skin I usually hardly feel any stubble, only in my neck I have a few areas that I can never get stubble free no matter how many passes I do.
I would be very interested to know how other members of the forum test the closeness of their shaves and what results they get.

Ok, so I originally posted this on the 11th., but have been wondering why it fell short of a single reply. When I reread it, I realized that perhaps my utterance of an expletive may have some how flagged it. I let it ride because of what I read in the FAQ about blanking words, and I figured I would let the program take care of any necessary censorship. I decided to see if the message even posted by investigating the thread without logging in with my user name. Well, I discovered that in fact it had not posted. That's fine, but it might be nice to be notified that one's post is in limbo! Maybe there is some nifty icon or coloration but guess what? Anyway, here is the old post, self censored for those who give a hoot. I decided to strop the razor on the pasted sides of the strop. I did twenty laps on the one and point five sides, before forty laps o the plain side. I wiped the razor off before changing sides, as to minimize cross contamination. I am not feeling very confident with regard to stropping yet.
I began with the usual hot shower. That is where all similarity to previous shaves ceases. Today, I had a new supply of shaving product to try. I began with the Proraso pre-shave. Wow, nice and tingly. I think I have a pretty good idea now of why my S.O.’s father swears by a Noxzema shave. I imagine the Proraso pre-shave must be very similar to this. After letting the pre-shave sit about two minutes, I proceeded to ignore the directions on the Proraso shave cream. Instead of wetting the face and applying the cream directly, I soaked my brush in hot water, let the excess drain out, and then lathered up some cream in the palm of my hand. I have to say I like the pre-shave and cream combo better than the Williams mug soap. I was determined to take longer strokes and not to evaluate until I had completed my first pass. By Jove, I think I’ve got it! After finishing my entire face and neck and rinsing, I felt nice and smooth rubbing my fingers in the direction of the growth. Additionally, I could tell my face was not flayed like in my previous shaves. So I was definitely doing this during the second pass against the growth. Granted, I can still feel light sandpaper like quality when I rub against the growth, but it’s a case of touch being more sensitive than sight. My S.O. assured me that this very light stubble could not be seen. Ok, so I can learn to be a little less anal about how things feel against the growth, get a nice smooth shave without the flaying, and cut my shave time in half to boot. All is right with the world. Well almost. You see, after I was all finished, I was feeling my face with one hand and in the process of setting the razor down on a towel to my right. I moved my thumb forward to place it on the spine and guide it into position. Well the blade was facing west instead of east and it bit me on the tip of my thumb. The f*cker bled for a good 20 to 25 minutes but didn’t require any sutures. I know, I know, Axiom #4 from “Axioms of Shaving.” Cut me some slack, you can understand how I maybe more than some, might lose “sight” of which way the blade is facing. Not that I do not take full responsibility for my carelessness. There are always skillful verses unskillful ways to do things. I will do my best not to repeat my mistake. Mostly, I was disappointed in my mistake, but very pleased with shave #5.

Just reporting in to say both shaves #6 and #7 came off beautifully. I even ventured some against the growth cuts again without any deleterious effects. I am happy happy with my progress and results thus far. I think I am in it now for the long haul, a satisfied convert. With that, I think I will end this thread and post further questions , and comments in the respective sections. I am a little concerned about mastering proper upkeep on the razors with there being definite visual aspects to it. Hopefully between my sighted partner and I, armed with all the fantastic information I find here, we can at the very least keep the rust at bay. Thanks again for all your comments, suggestions, advice, wisdom, knowledge, shared experience... <curtains and lights>

*leaps to his feet shouting, "Bravo"!*

Great to hear you're progressing well. I've been waiting with bated breath for each new post in this thread. You've had no major issues at all either which I suspect is due to the extra care you must take to 'see' where you're going on the strop and with the shave. I suppose that's another example of patience being a special virtue with this practice as with so much else.

See you in the Forums. ;)

X

I concur that it's time for you to move on. Given all of your successes, your only excuse for visiting the Newbie's Corner from here on out it to answer questions for those less knowledgeable than yourself. ;)

Congratulations and welcome to the fraternity!

Ed

You said it. Patience is a definite plus. When I think of patience, it means continuing to strive but by skillful means. When I start to rush my shave, I put the razor down, breathe, lather, and continue.