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Hi, I have been using the straight razors for a month or two. I get an excellent long lasting shave on my face and chin. My neck is good to ok, but can still feel some stuble. Is there a way to get the neck perfect. Maybe it is best to settle for good. I tried shaving against the grain with distarous effects. Razor burn beyond all beliefe.:eek: Any tricks out there. I would like to get a perfect baby bottom shave all over. Thank you in advance for any possible help recieved:)
1) Make sure that the razor is really sharp.
2) STRETCH the skin
3) Flatten the blade a bit
That should get you a smooth neck-shave...
Now as for avoiding the razor burn, make sure you don't press the blade or scrape dry skin with the razor.
Of course it depends on how your hair grows but I've been shaving with a straight almost 3 years now and I still can't get as close on my neck as the rest. I've tried all kinds of crazy angles and its still not the same. I've figured out that the only way is to shave E-W and that is impossible with a normal straight without cutting my throat. Maybe someone with a huge neck can do it but I can't. I do have a tradition Japaneese straight and because it has a very short blade I can do it with that but that razor has other limitations of its own.
I've just accepted the fact that the shave on the neck will not be quite as close as the rest. Maybe others will chime in with some secret formula for success.
Do a clean up pass with a DE? (Pardon me for swearing!)Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
RT
Thats good stuff. Thanks for the replies.
I follow Randy's advice for now. I've only been using a straight for a month or two and I still follow-up with a DE. I feel like I'm cheating...:nono:
I have the same type of neck hair. I usually skip the with-the-grain pass, and do two passes against the grain. To prevent irritation I go slow and keep the blade very flat (the spine is either on the skin or within a half spine-widths of it).
Failing that, an Injector will clean it up better than a DE. I used to do this when I used a DE, never had to resort to it after switching to a straight.
east/west is not easy....try going diagonally from n/e-s/w on left side of neck ...on opp side n/w-se....make sure face is wet and lubed stretch skin use real light pressure on razor, narrow angle...smooth close neck shave...this should be second pass after n/s...many times if razor is sharp, you wont need 3rd pass against grain...
Just to clarify: The second against-the-grain pass isn't because the razor isn't sharp, it's because the razor wipes the lather off of a slightly wider swathe than it actually shaves, so I wind up with alternating vertical stripes of smooth skin and short stubble :-/ Re-lathering and doing another pass cleans this up -- the second pass is very quick because there isn't a whole lot left.
In the end, it's all about results. If you want that baby butt smooth shave, I don't consider it cheating or blasphemy to use another tool in the process. I know an E-W pass with a DE before the final S-N pass with a straight really helps achieve that shave for me.
Stretching from behind the growth of hair regardless of the direction which you are shaving will stand those hairs a little taller and cut a little closer.
X
I think if your one of those guys with a Gorilla size neck its easy to stretch and shave at a pretty oblique angle which is what you really need. For the rest of us with narrow necks its more problematical. But when it really comes down to it if your neck isn't baby butt smooth but your still getting a close shave whats the problem with that? Personally, if I have to use a DE or something after the straight why use the straight at all? IMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
ditto this, its hard to get a real close shave on my neck too, and my skin just dont stretch enough to really get it all to good areas. and the way i see it, im tryin to do somethin like it was done a long time ago, this is all they had. so i just try harder to get a close shave with just the straight. no offence to the fellas who do a cleanup pass with somethin else, thats just not what im practicin for....
-micah
I achieve a great shave with a straight only. My wife can't even tell about my problem areas, but I know they are there. It's the damn perfectionist gene at work. Most of the time I can blow it off, recognize the spots I didn't do as well as I'd like, then remember those for next time. I've been playing with DE razors for a few months, and while they get my neck really well they don't get my chin nearly as well as a straight does. It's a trade-off for me, as either gives a great shave.
Well, I am going to try all that right now and see how things go. Thanks for the tips:)
Oh, yeah. Someone mentioned an injector. What is that. Do I need one.?
No, you don't need one. I had one years ago, and gave it away. Rumor has it that someone is going to make one again in the near future. The best ones were made by Schick and you can see them fairly cheap on Ebay in the shaving section of Collectables. I have a couple friends who swear by them. Personally, for a safety razor I prefer the Double Edge in a Merkur HD Slant Bar & old Gillette Super Speeds, and also an old Gem Micromatic that takes single edge blades. The Slant Bar and the Micromatic are the only ones close to a straight razor shave, IMHO.
More thoughts. This is an interesting thread in that people's beards seem to be SO much different. The reason that I first started w/ a straight is that I could get my neck shaved so much CLOSER with less effort than any other method. I have better luck skipping the with the grain pass on my neck, and going kind of cross grain w/ the blade very flat against my face and using what an old barber I knew called "a lot of English." And I have what has been called the Irishman's curse. Very fair skin and a coarse beard. I find that since it's turned grey it's less coarse than when it was auburn.
In general, this is not a good idea. Your best bet to avoid irritation and over-shaving is to hold off going against the grain until the whiskers are down to a stubble. With longer whiskers, when you go against the grain, you scoop under the whiskers and the longer whiskers cause you to push harder. So, you give up control and are more likely to shave some skin (over-shave), even if you hold the blade flat enough to avoid irritation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mparker762
BTW, it is harder to cut with a really flat blade. Remember that the edge has a bevel, so in the extreme, if you go really flat the actual edge is above the skin while the upper portion of the bevel rests on the skin. This means that you're clipping off the whiskers above the skin and will not be able to shave close. Although it is to your advantage to shave with as flat of a razor angle as possible, you really need between one and two spine widths above the skin.
Well Joe, with every other area of my face, I have to agree with you. With my neck though, I always seem to have pull and irritation shaving WITH the grain. This doesn't happen w/ a safety razor however. It's really weird, but I do best on my neck with cross grain shaving only, at least w/ a straight. I thought it might be different w/ Lynn's shave ready straight that I have. But no, it's still the same. It's probably just the particular combo of my skin and beard.
The blade will submarine under my whiskers no matter how short the stubble is. With the blade flat, it still cuts the beard but doesn't cut the skin. Different beards require different techniques, I guess.
It seems strange. Are you certain of the grain direction on your necK? Don't just make assumptions based on the rest of your face. For most men, the grain reverses on the lower neck, so if NS iswith the grain on your cheecks SN may very well be with the grain on your neck. And why would it be different with a safety razor? The only difference that's common is that the str8 might require more pressure or pull a little in comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisthemenace
I'm not saying the neck might not be special problem. I have particularly toughplaces on my face that can't be cut with most razors. That may just beone of them for you.
The razor will get caught up on the whiskers regardless, but the longer whiskers act like a downward ramp against which the razor rides and gets accelerated towards the skin.Quote:
Originally Posted by mparker762
My suggestion is to get the whiskers down to a fine stubble stubble before you go against the grain. Then, there's not very much for the razor to catch on and you can basically chop off the tops of the whiskers. Of course, if the whiskers are heavy even that won't be easy, but with the decreased resistance you'll have more control of the razor and will be less likely to produce irritation.
There's a lot of variation between individuals, but the basic principals still are true.
Thanks for the advice, but I'm not the one trying to find a solution to shaving the neck -- I can shave mine just fine, using the technique I described, having arrived at this approach after trying other techniques such as the "successive reduction" technique with varyingly mediocre success.
Shaving with the grain on my lower neck will not get the beard down to a fine stubble in a reasonable number of passes unless I'm using a multi-blade cartridge. Not with a feather, not with a straight, not with a DE. The blade just skips over most of the hairs, and I know this should be impossible, but the blades don't seem to know that and they haven't learned for the last 25 years. Shaving dry solves this problem (I think the less slippery hairs let the blades get a decent bite), but I stopped shaving dry several years ago when my skin couldn't take it anymore. Going across the grain reduces the stubble a bit and is the approach I take with a DE, but that's not doable on my short neck with a straight or a feather. Sliding the razor down at a shallow angle against the grain works pretty well, though. The blade slides under the whisker and pops it neatly off, and doesn't damage the skin unless the angle is too high. Maybe this doesn't work for you because your skin is more sensitive than mine?
I have seen this "acceleration towards the skin" phenomenon you mention, but primarily with the DE, and I've always assumed that the blade was just flexing away from the hair towards the skin a bit as it hit the whiskers. I tend to use 6/8 and larger blades with a slightly heavier grind, so maybe this eliminates the phenomenon as a practical concern.
(Actually I lied a bit about shaving dry: I still do it if I need a quick touch-up for some reason. The feather works beautifully in this situation -- a quick flick around the face and I'm good to go. I just can't do this with a full day's beard, and can't do it every day.)
We all seem to want that baby butt smooth feel to the skin and we all think that this is the hallmark of shaving nirvana but consider this. I submit that it is not. You can shave with an electric razor and you will achieve that effect but 5 hours later the stubble returns. You can shave with one of those five blade gizmo's and still have a tiny bit of stubble but that stubble will not appreciably grow for many hours past what the electric gives. If your neck has some roughbess to it after shaving with a straight 12 hours later that roughness isn't really any worse than after you shaved. (of course this is all from my own experience). So can someone explain to me why the electric shave appears to be the closest but isn't?
An electric doesn't cut the hair, it tears it. It splits and frays the end of the hair so instead of a thick hair, you've got little shredded strands which are relatively soft so you don't really feel them. I think this is related to the phenomenon where stubble is much more noticeable 20 minutes after shaving than right away when you still have a razor and lather at hand -- once the stubble dries out it's stiffer so you notice it more. This is only a hypothesis, though.
Being a reformed electric user (unfortunately over 25 years experience) let me suggest another reason an electric shave feels closer initially but you soon feel stubble. The damn things damage your face and cause swelling! When the swelling subsides, the stubble reappears.
Opinion only, but I'm convinced that throwing my electric against a brick wall last November was the only temper tantrum I've ever had that had a happy ending.
Ed
I know. It was something I inserted for people who were reading the post. You have this under control, but for most guys that's not likely to be a good solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by mparker762
It sounds like you have very flat lying whiskers that are also tough. The blade skips over them when they're wet because you can't get enough traction to cut them. THe only edge that would have any hope of cutting would be a Feather DE blade, but then you have the problem that the thin blade will bend. The additional friction when the whiskers are dry provides traction. Dry shaving will not work for most people unless you just use it for reduction and don't touch the skin. It's a known form of punishment used by hthe military. My skin is super sensitive. I wouldn't even consider it.Quote:
Shaving with the grain on my lower neck will not get the beard down to a fine stubble in a reasonable number of passes unless I'm using a multi-blade cartridge. Not with a feather, not with a straight, not with a DE. The blade just skips over most of the hairs, and I know this should be impossible, but the blades don't seem to know that and they haven't learned for the last 25 years. Shaving dry solves this problem (I think the less slippery hairs let the blades get a decent bite ... Maybe this doesn't work for you because your skin is more sensitive than mine?
It's not a flexing phenomenon, but one due to applying the additional force needed to cut long hair against the grain. With a sharp blade it should be less noticeable with a DE because the safety bar provides some protection. An open blade will just dig in. A heavier blade would help if you used shorter, delicate strokes to recapture some control over the blade. Holding the blade flat also protects against this.Quote:
I have seen this "acceleration towards the skin" phenomenon you mention, but primarily with the DE, and I've always assumed that the blade was just flexing away from the hair towards the skin a bit as it hit the whiskers. I tend to use 6/8 and larger blades with a slightly heavier grind, so maybe this eliminates the phenomenon as a practical concern.
If you had a totally flat edge and held the blade and the skin flat you theoretically couldn't cut yourself, because the blade isn't moving into the skin (it's more like a lawnmower chopping off the tops of whiskers). But because the edge has a bevel, when you lie the razor against the skin the edge is higher off the skin than the side of the blade, so you're cutting the whisker above the level of the skin. You avoid that by pressing the side of the blade into the skin to force the edge down (or raise the spine very slightly). You probably don't realize you're doing it. I have heard from others with low lying whiskers that flat blading with sideways pressure is a good way to cut them closely. Usually, very limited stretching is recommended, and this is one case where a blade that's not maximally sharp will work better (less chance of cutting or shaving the skin).
That's true too. I used electrics for several years and had real problems with blistering (not right away, but a few hours after shaving).
After you learn good shaving technique with any razor, you will be able to get BBS. The only issue is how hard you're willing to work and/or how much discomfort you are willing to tolerate.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
BBS is not a measure of closeness but a measure of cleanness. In other words, although we all use the term "close shave", BBS is really only a clean shave (smooth to the touch?). Closeness is measured by how long it takes for the smoothness to begin disappearing. So, you can get BBS with an electric and abrade your skin in the process. Or you can get it with a sharp DE or str8 and shave off a thin layer of skin. Although you experience burn in both cases, it's different. You worked diligently to remove every last hair, abrading your face with the electric in the process or shaving off some skin, but the sharp razors shaved much closer, and the shave will stay clean longer (a closer shave).
You can get BBS (almost- don't be obsessive) and you can get it every day without irritation. It's a matter of using a sharp blade (don't pluck the hairs out with the electric and tear the skin), and being gentle. That means reduction (progressive removal of whiskers) and not trying to cut to clean skin until you have a fine stubble. At that point you have much finer control of the razor so you can avoid shaving skin along with the whiskers.
One other thing that causes irritation is a steep angle of the blade to the face. You can understand that if you use the blade at a really steep angle (short of cutting yourself) it's more of a scraper than a cutter. Well that changes continuously, so there's a little bit of scrapng there all the time. The amount depends on steepness of the blade. The most gentle cut will be made by the blade being as flat as possible but still cutting. You need to experiment with each razor to see what will work for you, usually something around two spine widths off the skin. If you can do it with less, it's an advantage.
I notice that phenomenon with all wet shaving.Quote:
Originally Posted by mparker762
By experimenting I found that it seems to be caused by hot preparation. You heat up the skin and it swells. That limits how close you can shave. Later, when you cool your face down the skin shrinks back, and then you feel short stubble.
I've been able to deal with this by doing a final touch up after cooling down my skin. The stubble you remove that way doesn't show up again.
You may have a very valid theory there. I know any time I've ever gotten a clean shave with an electric, the abrasion made my skin feel very hot. It seems to be similar to the hot prep phenomenon I mentione above.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForestryProf