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Hey there guys just for some input on this razor, I've been trying to put a bevel on it and it seems quite brittle, here's some pics
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/9670/p1000567oc.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9343/p1000569t.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/664/p1000570e.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7296/p1000572z.jpg
Its got black staining and I'm starting to think its corroded all the way through. Any help would be greatly appreciated
cheers Alex
The third photo shows that you are still in bad steel. You're going to have to hone farther to get past that corrosion.
I have a feeling that it would be...may have to get past the rust, but should be fine. Add a layer of tape to the spine and hone it a bit more and then look at the bevel under magnification.
Patience my dear friend...
If you're not getting it clean as fast as you'd like and are starting to wonder if it's worth the bother, take it directly to a bevel setter and see if you expose good steel at the bevel. If you do, I'd continue, if not… oh well.
Edit. Ignore me. Misread your post.
Looks to me like a victim of cell rot. If so it depends on how deep the corrosion goes and whether it is into the bevel area. All you can do is try setting the bevel and getting to good solid steel. If it is too far gone you will begin to have 'swiss cheese' holes as you hone into the spots that are corroded through.
Thanks for all the replies, my friend gave me a loan of his new 220 grit Norton (The fool! its mine now!), so I think I'll hone it down on that until I can find good steel as every Gotta seems to be superb shavers, it would be a shame if it was beyond repair.
@JimmyHAD, the scales are practically spotless, I don't think its cell rot but I could be mistaken... its Gotta scales that are on it, unless they've been replaced sometime in the past.
I'll post back when I make some progress. Thanks again, Alex
I'll be interested to hear how this one turns out. The rusting looks like it covers the entire blade from the edge up. Most times, it is really hard without removing half the razor to get to a place where the rusting is not that deep and into the eventual edge. I think this one would have been in the circular file long ago for me.
Good luck,
Lynn
It may be an excercise in futility. Sometimes a Tam o Shanter is helpful when a blade is brittle. Not sure about yours though, your going to have to experiment a bit more....
Looking at the second pic, you also have another problem starting to develop, see that sharp point that is becoming a heel???? that is going to get worse as you hone farther into the belly,,, That has to be taken back and re-contoured :(
Wait, where is one of those guys that says honing is easy, when you need them :rofl2:
@gssixgun: Thats just the picture making the heel look worse somehow, I don't know how but it looks like a guillotine compared to what I'm holding in my hand right now.
I think I need to go back and look at your vids again...
Gotta try to find out. That may be more restoration than honing, but you won't know till you're doing it.
Well, sure, it's easy for them, what with being Masters with decades of experience!Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Nonetheless, to find good steel, if any exists you will likely end up removing so much you will get into the stabiliser fast, especially with a 220.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpyalex
I'd follow Glen's advice & future proof that heel first.
Good luck.
I didn't think of that, even though looking back, Glen says it in his post :gaah: I need reading glasses. I'm not too experienced with recontouring heels though, would you recommend any particular strokes?Quote:
Nonetheless, to find good steel, if any exists you will likely end up removing so much you will get into the stabiliser fast, especially with a 220.
I'd follow Glen's advice & future proof that heel first.
Alex
i wouldn't waste any time on this blade. Even it will not teach you anything just waste of your time.Just move on another blade or just get rid of this rust. it is not save to play around so much rusty blade.
(if you use mag you will see blade has deep rust)
gl
Well I have alot of time on my hands, but I do appreciate your opinion but purely out of curiosity and the fact I learn much better from making my own mistakes, I just want to hone it out anyways. If it ends up a pile of metal filings then so be it. And I feel when it comes to techniques like honing, Any chance to build up honing muscle memory, I'll use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl
And Glasgow's pretty rainy right now :)
Besides, even if it is not considered to be a waste of time, there is a lot of satisfaction in rescuing the un-redeemable; and a lesson is still learned if you fail. Good luck!
I've noticed on one side the spine is even but on the other its super thin at the toe and heel and more worn in the middle of the spine.
Should I correct this before doing any more honing with the tape?
Alex in that Vid on my channel I re-contour that heel, and show ya how, it is quite common when you are doing heavy honing/breadknifing..Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpyalex
You are creating years worth of wear in minutes :( so it needs to be done..
Jimmy's link is the most important one of this thread, if the edge is starting to develop into a frown like yours looks from the pic, you want to reverse that process by honing to introduce a smile...
You have heard the stupid saying "Turn that frown upside down" well it works on razors to :)
There is lots to learn from that razor have fun doing it even if the steel turns out to be bad in the end you will still learn what we so fondly call
"Honing Gymnastics"
This is how i feel about honing.Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpyalex
when you hone and get end result it makes me feel a lot better. i know i did get something at the end.
I have nothing against to hone the blade which you have at least 50 % chance you can get some ok edge from the blade.
if that blade had that chance i would say go head hone it and see what happens.
at least your hands will get used to strokes etc.
The current condition of the blade is scary. if you cut yourself with such a rusty blade God knows what is next.
Anyways this is your decision and i wish you good luck.
Hey Alex,
Shame to see the rust, the razor looks otherwise good; not to mention straight as a die.
There are two main methods of treating corrosion: Electrolysis and acid
Here's a method I've used very successfully on old planes and other tools, should be no less effective with a razor
You'll Need
-2 Tbsp of White Vinegar (30mL)
-1 Cup Warm Water (250mL)
-Shallow Container
Mix the warm water and vinegar in the container and put the blade in the container, set a timer for 2 hours and leave it. This should penetrate the deep rust and get rid of the surface rust (you can use #0000 steel wool to get the rest off in this case)
Allow it to dry, then spray and wipe thoroughly with a penetrating oil. I use camellia oil, which can be pricey unless you buy small amounts; but is extremely effective.
If you want to be even more thorough, you could ask a jeweller friend a favour and see if they could run it through their ultrasonic cleaner first, then go for the acid treatment.
My only concerns are the material of the scales reacting with the weak acid, but in most cases they would likely serve only to clean them and the pins too.
After you've done this, the advice of everyone else in this thread is nothing but relevant, grind until you find good metal, hone and strop.
Good Luck, whatever you choose to do! it'd be a shame for it to live the rest of it's life as an ornament like some would suggest! :)
Neillo:
So far the results of soaking razors in solutions have met with less then desirable outcomes... I would very highly recommend trying this on actual razors and posting a complete and detailed thread on it... If you search back through the "Workshop" you will find quite a few of these experiments...
Even the ones that work to take off the "rust" leave behind the pitting which is the actual problem,, Be very very very careful of doing anything the involves the scales of razors....
Thanks "Glen the Mod"
Thanks for your concern Glen,Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
The context of my solution however was one of a position of having very little to lose with this particular razor, and as I stated it's a method I've used for Western and Japanese tools designed to be as sharp as any straight razor.
What alex decides to to with his razor on the other hand, is completely his concern; my intention was only to help. :)
Thanks
-Neill
Any info's useful info. But for the honing practice, I think I'm better off with honing it out, but thanks for the input, always appreciated. I do have some junkers that I'll try your method out on though :)
@gssixgun: I just watched the vid with the recontouring of the heel and I don't want to do that right now because I'm using my pals new Nortons and don't have another coarse enough stone to do it with. Looking at the toe I think i'll have to recontour that as well though... something to look forward to :)
Edit: scratch that last part, remembered i had an extremely rough no brand 4k which I could probably pass itself off as a 1k or below, I'm probably over exaggerating but its rough, now I see what you mean about the heel being a point, I did the toe as well, now everything looks in proportion. I thought that was going to hold me up, but I'm back on track. I've got a feeling I'll need to do that a couple of times.
It's got nothing to do with the edge you intend to put onto the razor afterwords. A vinegar bath will result in black staining, so while it may help with one problem, it creates another one. It's much simpler to just deal with the one problem without making more. There is also the difference of how much steel you have to work with under whatever you are trying to get out. Putting some staining on a thicker piece of steel won't matter because you can do whatever you want to get it off. But on a razor, especially a full hollow, it's a whole other ballgame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neillo
I believe that was Glen's point - we are not talking about old planes and other tools, we are talking about straight razors.
For surface rust or light staining (not really nasty Devil's spit), I like MAAS. A single edge scraper will take off any rust above the surface, and then I use synthetic steel wool (the 000) and MAAS to get off any remaining rust and light staining. If you keep the pressure light, it won't leave anything more than very faint scratches. Yes, this too will leave the pitting behind, but without creating any new problems.