Straight Razor Shaves Everything But The Face. Too Thick, Too Coarse.

I've read all the threads I can find on "coarse hair" and "heavy beard." Nobody ever provides any conclusions, it's like they ask, get answered, and disappear. Maybe they cut their throats, never to be heard from again. I'll see this thread through. It'll either end up happily ever after, or I'll settle for the mediocre results, or I'll have an over-priced box opener.

I ordered a no-name straight from the SRP Classifieds. I stropped it, maybe inadvertently ruined it in the process. It took some hair off my sideburns, but dragged and snagged my goatee area. I got the same results several times. I suspected the blade was good, but my face hair is too thick, so I try it on my arms and the dang thing was smooth and effortless.

I ordered a new Dovo from SRD, pro honed and everything in the hopes it would provide satisfactory results on my face. I stropped it, maybe even ruined the edge in the process (I'm a slow learner). Gave it a try several times over a week when I wasn't in a rush to get out of the house, stropped every time. The Dovo looked and sounded purdier but barely gave better results. The sideburns and cheeks are OK, it looks like I shaved maybe a while ago, but the goatee area gets snagged and dragged. I don't push it, I patiently re-lather and try different angles over and over like a crazed and obsessed shaving maniac. I thought to myself, maybe my facial hair is too thick for this blade, so I tried areas of my legs that won't show when I wear clothes, and it was effortless. It was so fun, I was tempted to keep going but I don't want people to ask questions about my legs.

My prep routine is to run the blade on linen a few times, then 15 laps on the leather. I take a shower, oil the beard with Musgo REal brand, boar brush lather with either Dr. Bronner's or that cheap shaving soap at drug stores.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks ya'll.

Souriya

Given that you tried two different razors with the same results, and given that you are having more trouble with a more difficult area, I wouldn't be surprised if it's simply a matter of shave technique. My advice would be to spend a while practicing on just your sideburn and cheek areas, because these are easier, and put off your chin for a while.

It's been said before that the hair on your chin (and moustache, I believe) are the most coarse of all the hair on your face. On top of that, it's the most difficult to keep the angle correct. As Holli said before me, I'd give some time perfecting the technique on your chops and cheeks, making sure the blade angle is 30 degrees. I've seen alot of videos where even 'experienced' shavers are at a much steeper angle than the recommended 30, and the sound it makes sounds...awful, to be honest.

Or maybe your beard needs a wedge. A big, Sheffield wedge. (But that's an even more expensive option. Lets stick with technique, for now.)

The main things preached to me when I started were: Prep, pressure and angle.

Now for the stropping.. I have a routine I use to make sure I don't ruin the edge of my razors while trying to learn proper stropping technique. Lay it on a flat surface, a table, your headboard, whatever, as long as it's flat and secure. Then I stropped my razor in a slow, easy fashion. Pre-shave I strop 30-40 on the wool (linen), then strop 50-75 on the leather. Then I shave with it.

When done shaving, after I have dried the blade and scales carefully, I run it on the strop again, but this time I do 15-20 on the wool and only 20-25 on the leather. This makes positive sure the blade EDGE is also dried and straightened. Then when that razor comes up in the rotation again, I do it all over again. This has made it a lot more consistent for me. But you have to find what works for you... but don't mess up your edge with bad stropping techniques. The shaving techniques also come better with time and practice.

Maybe you do need a wedge. I have 3 4/8's wedges and I love them all!!! They could cut down a redwood they are so sharp!! (Thanks Kelly!).

Good luck mate!! Work up to those hard spots slowly, and don't be discouraged if you don't get the results you expect immediately. It WILL come as long as you don't give up!!

Happy Shaving!!

M

Not sure if the advice of a fellow newb is worth anything, but... i started straight shaving about 3 months ago. like you i found my first razor tugging and pulling. Convinced that the razor was the problem and not my method or stropping i took it to the new hones i had purchased as well. needless to say my first razor is still ruined and waiting for me to learn to actually hone (thats a long story). fortunately i had ordered a second razor and it came almost immediatly after the first. again i experienced the same problems. it seemed, much like you that i could shave my side burns and cheeks but it pulled everywhere else, especially near the corners of my mouth. fast forward a mere 3 weeks later and i could shave my entire face. i took it in small steps and just tried to shave different areas or more each day. what really helped me was learning to shave my jaw line. now 3 months later; currently i'm struggling with the hairs on my neck (i can shave them but i have no idea how to get that area smooth lol) and sensitivity all over my face after i shave (though its like 100x better than what used to happen with my old mach3).

anyways i babbled on there. good luck and have fun... you'll get it

I found learning to shave with a straight razor quite difficult. There is so much to get right (blade sharpness, stropping proficiency, angle, technique, preparation, etc. etc.) and a misstep in any of those areas makes for a lousy shave. If you get more than one of those factors wrong, then shaving well is just about impossible. Nobody gets it right immediately. In my case, the first 10 shaves were lousy, the next 10 were less bloody but still bad, and it wasn't until about the 50th shave that I had any proficiency at all. At about the 100th shave I started to get results comparable to what I could obtain with a DE. I didn't feel really proficient until about the 150th shave. It took me about half a year of it to get to the point where I felt it was starting to get easy and fun. Before that it was all work.

My recommendation is to get a properly honed blade and not to strop it before you shave. That will probably teach you that your stropping technique was bad. Everyone's stropping is lousy at first. It all takes time. You'll also learn that your shaving technique is lousy. Nothing personal here, but how could it possibly be good right off?

They talk about a learning curve here. It is long and it is steep at first. Believe it or not (and I questioned this many times), it is worth it to persist and keep at it. It took me a long time to get where I am now, but it was an interesting journey, and I'm glad I kept at it. I can now get a quick, good shave with a straight razor, and I have a great time doing it. Like anything else that requires proper tools and skill, it can't be done without lots of practice and work. Get a proper blade, learn to strop slowly and carefully, and the results will come. If it was easy to pull all this off, I doubt anyone would even bother with it. If you are persistent, you will be rewarded with good shaves, in time, and you will have acquired a skill that only the patient and persistent can employ. It is a difficult learning experience, but if you want to know whether it is worth it, the answer is definitely YES. You'll find plenty of help and encouragement here, and you will probably need it. Without this forum and the help it provides, I'd probably have a beard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by souriya

I've read all the threads I can find on "coarse hair" and "heavy beard." Nobody ever provides any conclusions, it's like they ask, get answered, and disappear. Maybe they cut their throats, never to be heard from again. I'll see this thread through. It'll either end up happily ever after, or I'll settle for the mediocre results, or I'll have an over-priced box opener.

I ordered a no-name straight from the SRP Classifieds. I stropped it, maybe inadvertently ruined it in the process. It took some hair off my sideburns, but dragged and snagged my goatee area. I got the same results several times. I suspected the blade was good, but my face hair is too thick, so I try it on my arms and the dang thing was smooth and effortless.

I ordered a new Dovo from SRD, pro honed and everything in the hopes it would provide satisfactory results on my face. I stropped it, maybe even ruined the edge in the process (I'm a slow learner). Gave it a try several times over a week when I wasn't in a rush to get out of the house, stropped every time. The Dovo looked and sounded purdier but barely gave better results. The sideburns and cheeks are OK, it looks like I shaved maybe a while ago, but the goatee area gets snagged and dragged. I don't push it, I patiently re-lather and try different angles over and over like a crazed and obsessed shaving maniac. I thought to myself, maybe my facial hair is too thick for this blade, so I tried areas of my legs that won't show when I wear clothes, and it was effortless. It was so fun, I was tempted to keep going but I don't want people to ask questions about my legs.

My prep routine is to run the blade on linen a few times, then 15 laps on the leather. I take a shower, oil the beard with Musgo REal brand, boar brush lather with either Dr. Bronner's or that cheap shaving soap at drug stores.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks ya'll.

Souriya

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Well, finally someone has it figured out. All those guys who come and go. They didn't follow our advice and used too much pressure on their necks thinking they had to in order to cut those hairs and they sliced their throats. Their blood drained bodies were found crumpled on the floor hours later.:dropjaw:

One thing I can guarantee is that is no matter how tough you think your whiskers are they are no match for any proper sharp razor. Just start slow like has been said starting on the easy areas of your face and progress as your skill permits. You just need to develop the skills. A year from now you won't believe you started this post.:)

Maybe you should go to a barber shop and get a shave there. You can then see how the barber does it and prove to yourself that it is possible to get a BBS on any beard type. That's what I did.

+1 to all the 'don't give up' comments. Just take it easy to begin with and move on the to the tricky bits when you feel more comfortable. I think everyone who shaves with a straight has a similar experience to begin with.

Let us know how your progress goes.

Good luck.

Stu

souriya,

If you can, could you please let your beard grow for around three to four days.

When you then come to shave, wash beard well, lather it and use hot a hot towel over the lather and let soak on your face for a few minutes. Re-lather up and let lather sit on face for at least three minutes; touch up lather and shave as normal and let us know how you got on.

This should give you the best odds of softening your whiskers and getting a comfortable shave.

Good luck !

Have fun !

Best regards

Russ

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Originally Posted by mjhammer

The main things preached to me when I started were: Prep, pressure and angle.

Now for the stropping.. I have a routine I use to make sure I don't ruin the edge of my razors while trying to learn proper stropping technique. Lay it on a flat surface, a table, your headboard, whatever, as long as it's flat and secure. Then I stropped my razor in a slow, easy fashion. Pre-shave I strop 30-40 on the wool (linen), then strop 50-75 on the leather. Then I shave with it.

When done shaving, after I have dried the blade and scales carefully, I run it on the strop again, but this time I do 15-20 on the wool and only 20-25 on the leather. This makes positive sure the blade EDGE is also dried and straightened. Then when that razor comes up in the rotation again, I do it all over again. This has made it a lot more consistent for me. But you have to find what works for you... but don't mess up your edge with bad stropping techniques. The shaving techniques also come better with time and practice.

Maybe you do need a wedge. I have 3 4/8's wedges and I love them all!!! They could cut down a redwood they are so sharp!! (Thanks Kelly!).

Good luck mate!! Work up to those hard spots slowly, and don't be discouraged if you don't get the results you expect immediately. It WILL come as long as you don't give up!!

Happy Shaving!!

M

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+1 to what mjhammer says.
My stropping technique has gotten so much better since I tried his method of placing the strop on a bench/firm surface and using a light touch.
I also went the other way and have a full hollow in my rotation. I find it more difficult to shave with, however, it has honed (?) my technique as well and made shaves with the other razors easier. FWIW
Most importantly, don't get discouraged and enjoy the ride on the learning curve.
Like the shampoo advert says 'It won't happen overnight but it will happen'
Finally - welcome to SRP

Wow I did not know that there were so many posts to this thread. The forum did not notify me after the second response.

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and advice.

I ordered a Norton 4000/8000 hone but opened the box to find out that I accidentally ordered the 1000/4000 instead, so disappointing. I was looking forward to honing for the first time to see if I can get better shaves. I guess I'll have to wait a week for the real hone to get here.

However, I am glad to report that I tried Thiers Issard Strop Paste today and it improved the shave, less catching and tugging on the hair. This adds to my suspicion that I ruined the edge with the strop when I got the razor and I need to correct it with a hone. The closeness is better, but not what I have been able to achieve with a Mach 3. The result is similar to what I get with an electric razor.

Also I saw on YouTube there is a fellow in Denmark who did a shaving video and he said something I never heard before "Use short, quick strokes as if you're chopping the hairs instead of trying to slowly push the razor through the hair." I tried it and that also improved the shave but it feels unsafe to be slinging the blade around like that.

I'll give another update after my first hone in a week or two. Thanks again everyone!

Souriya

Good advise from carazor, go to a barber and you'll get an advise face to face. im sure you'll get an idea to solve the problem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by souriya

Wow I did not know that there were so many posts to this thread. The forum did not notify me after the second response.

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and advice.

I ordered a Norton 4000/8000 hone but opened the box to find out that I accidentally ordered the 1000/4000 instead, so disappointing. I was looking forward to honing for the first time to see if I can get better shaves. I guess I'll have to wait a week for the real hone to get here.

However, I am glad to report that I tried Thiers Issard Strop Paste today and it improved the shave, less catching and tugging on the hair. This adds to my suspicion that I ruined the edge with the strop when I got the razor and I need to correct it with a hone. The closeness is better, but not what I have been able to achieve with a Mach 3. The result is similar to what I get with an electric razor.

Also I saw on YouTube there is a fellow in Denmark who did a shaving video and he said something I never heard before "Use short, quick strokes as if you're chopping the hairs instead of trying to slowly push the razor through the hair." I tried it and that also improved the shave but it feels unsafe to be slinging the blade around like that.

I'll give another update after my first hone in a week or two. Thanks again everyone!

Souriya

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To start I would recomend short SLOW strokes. Fast will only give you a large Cut!
I think that was Maxi on the vid. Was he bald?
Hold the razor with the spine almost flat to the skin then lift it slightly. Do just the strong side side of face. Get the angle right. Hold the razor lightly enough that if it catches the movement on the face stops. Otherwise large cut and pink lather are the result. Ouch!

I have only been at this for six months but experienced the same pulling and tugging when I started out. The first week was awful. Lots of blood and very little hair cut. I didn't try my chin area for at least the first four weeks.

My longtime local barber gave me the best advice, "Keep the angle really low and do very short, choppy strokes rather than long strokes." It really helped to move my technique forward.

Remember:

1. Make sure you do adequate shave preparation.
2. Make sure your razor is sharp. In the beginning, use a professionally sharpened razor and avoid honing and stropping until you have more experience.
3. Make sure to start with WTG passes on the cheek and sideburns until it becomes second nature. Finish up with a DE or your normal shaving method.
4. Make sure to use short strokes in the beginning.

I wish you luck. If you stay with it, it will get easier and better.
:D

+1 on what theBigSpender said - no matter how course it is, no facial hair is a match for a properly sharpened razor that is used with proper technique.

I grew up going to the same barber for over 25 years so I trusted him completely. Right around the age of 28 curiosity got the better of me and I asked for shave (I always saw him using a straight on customers). He said, "I can do it but you'll bleed. Your beard is too thick and course. I'd just stick with a cartridge razor if I were you." So I listened to him.

Fast forward to 18 months ago (12 years since his comment). My curiosity never died - instead it grew. So I thought, 'screw it, I'm going to give it try. Guys had nothing to shave with but straights for centuries and I'm sure thousands upon thousands of them had course facial hair.' I bought a shave-ready straight and gave it go. Not the greatest shave the first time around but not bad either - nowhere near as uncomfortable as I had expected and certainly no blood (not even weepers) as my old barber had implied.

Within 4-6 weeks I was getting very good shaves with only my neck - where the hairs grow toward my ear making it hard to go with the grain, especially in the hollow areas around the adam's apple - experiencing a slight bit of irritation / razor burn.

Within 6 months even my neck was no longer an issue and the shave were great.

That said, your two biggest factors are most likely going to be the razor edge and (e.g. well honed) edge and pressure (all it takes is enough to keep the razor resting on your skin, no more).

Bottom line: Listen to all the great advice that's been given here already and you'll get it - and probably quicker than you think. Once you find the right mix of razor prep, facial prep, and shaving technique for YOU, those hairs won't stand a chance.

I finally got the Norton 4000/8000 and it took forever to lap. Halfway thru, I discover that my new lapping stone needs to be lapped. I went and got a granite tile then sanded the stones flat like that SRP wiki showed. To hone, I used the pyramid technique on Lynn Abrams DVD, except I had to do a lot more laps. My new Dovo has an asymmetric transverse spine on one side that makes me choose if I want the spine flat on the stone, or the edge flat on the stone, but I couldn't have both at the same time. I ground the spine's left side flatter, more parallel to the edge. I got a cheap pocket microscope from RadioShack and I can see the edge progression from 4k to 8k. 8k still leaves some jaggedness to the edge that is observable at 100x magnification and stropping didn't seem to smooth it out.The shave was better than before I honed, but it's still not smooth nor close so now I'm waiting on UPS for 12k stone and some .5 CrO. Hopefully that equipment will enable me to get a satisfactory edge, although I've read that some folks say "don't get anything finer than 8k grit until you've learned to get a perfect dream shave from the 8k"

I think I will also stop using the linen strop. The webbing is so tight with prominent weaves, it feels like I'm rubbing the blade over a cobblestone street. I imagine that edge getting clobbered by lumps of linen and metal chunks breaking off the edge, turning it into visible serrations.

While I wait for all the moons to line up for a nice edge on my dovo, I've been practicing with a cheap shavette-type razor I got at a local barber beauty supply store. It uses DE blades that I cut in half. It shaves fine, I would skip the expense of getting all this junk to make my Dovo shave, but the shavette is so flimsy and plus I can't upgrade to a fancy impressive looking straight razor if I can't get a no frills one to shave. Those Harts and Thiers Issards look so purdy, I'd like to have one someday, but only if I can remove my beard with it. I can't drop all that cash just to have a slab of metal and scales sitting around doing nothing but gleaming. Stuff in my house gotta earn their keep.

Thanks for your advice everyone, I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and maybe a newbie will see all the junk I'm going through and peek at what they might be in for.

Golly gee willakers. I finally got a good snag-free smooth shave on my Dovo. I'd like to thank the SRP members & wiki, Lynn Abrams DVD, Vintage Blades LLC, and YouTube, I couldn't have done it without you.

What finally brought the edge to shave ready after the Norton 8k was a light touch of Thiers Issard paste on denim stapled taut to a pine board from the hobby store followed by a hint of Hand American chromium on a leather strop like on that SRP wiki, and finally the plain leather strop.

The sound and feel of beard being painlessly sheared off my face was surreal, like this moment was elusive as an oiled hog and I finally grabbed it by the squiggly tail.

I'm still lapping that Oriental 12k stone, it'll take a few thousand more strokes so it won't be ready anytime soon but I'm curious about the effect it will have on the edge when I throw it into the hone line up.

Looking forward to the next shave to see if I can keep that edge.

Woohoo!


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=30.201860,-93.236866

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Originally Posted by souriya

Golly gee willakers. I finally got a good snag-free smooth shave on my Dovo. I'd like to thank the SRP members & wiki, Lynn Abrams DVD, Vintage Blades LLC, and YouTube, I couldn't have done it without you.

What finally brought the edge to shave ready after the Norton 8k was a light touch of Thiers Issard paste on denim stapled taut to a pine board from the hobby store followed by a hint of Hand American chromium on a leather strop like on that SRP wiki, and finally the plain leather strop.

The sound and feel of beard being painlessly sheared off my face was surreal, like this moment was elusive as an oiled hog and I finally grabbed it by the squiggly tail.

I'm still lapping that Oriental 12k stone, it'll take a few thousand more strokes so it won't be ready anytime soon but I'm curious about the effect it will have on the edge when I throw it into the hone line up.

Looking forward to the next shave to see if I can keep that edge.

Woohoo!

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Hell, that's inspiring. Congrats.

Maybe there's still hope for me, too.