Something not working, help!

I bought a shave ready straight razor, strop and brush from whippeddog.com. Today is my third attempt, and something isn't working. The first I had major razorburn, which I attribute to probably using the wrong angle. My biggest problem though is I'm not getting much of a shave. I've tried all three directions multiple times, but I've still got stubble. I don't know if I just have a tough beard, if I've messed up the hone on the blade already, or something else. I'm also finding it awkward to find the right way to hold my hands and the razor for certain passes. I'm right handed, and trying to go under my jawbone from my right ear toward my chin, the blade is long and the scales get in the way. suggestions?

Razor burn can usually be attributed to a couple of things; too much pressure, incorrect angle or a razor which is not as sharp as it needs to be. Whipped dog have a pretty good rep so it is unlikely to be the razor.
Your story is common in the beginner threads. Do you have a good pre shave prep? If you stubble and face are not in the correct state when you start you are fighting an uphill battle before you start.
You sound like you are know a bit about the need for correct shave angles but here they are just in case; WTG - 30 deg, XTG - 15 deg and ATG - 5 deg.
Very light pressure is also needed, when starting out guys tend to use too much pressure. Use light pressure and let the edge do it's thing.
Lastly, if you feel like the edge is not up to scratch it might pay to sent Larry at Whipped Dog and let him know, from what I hear he is a good bloke to deal with.

Most of all, just take it slow. Just small steps, a good technique will take time. Maybe give you face a break from the straight for a bit and try again.

Keep at it and try to enjoy the ride.

Stu

Prep is a big thing. Dont try and hone your razor for a good while it shouldnt need it. Work on correct stroping technique. Read the wiki...it is your friend, say it with me "the wiki is my friend". Relax it takes time, just keep at it. If your stropping is good and all else fails it could just be practice. It's been 4 months for me and I still cant shave atg on my neck without getting crazy razor burn.

Three shaves in, is very early days. I would suggest just sticking with WTG passes, perhaps just on the easier bits (sides, Cheeks) until you are confident. IMO becoming comfortable shaving with both hands, helps when moving to shaving XTG and ATG as it gives you twice as many options in tackling difficult areas.

+1 to what others have said, especially re pressure and slowing down. I've purchased one razor from LarryAndro and he's honed 3 more for me, and they're all great shavers. You might try using no more pressure than it takes to keep the edge just in contact with your face. If you think the angle might be an issue, one helpful technique early on is to lay the blade flat against your face and, with the edge remaining in contact with your skin, CAREFULLY rotate the spine away from your face until it's about 2 spine-widths from your skin--that's about 30 degrees, which is a good starting point for WTG. Some blades work better at less than 30 degrees for WTG ( I actually have one, an old Bengall that had lost a lot of metal before I bought her), but 30 degrees is a good place to start.

Sounds like it would also be a good idea to slow way down and only shave your sideburn area WTG for a few days, and finish the rest of your shave with whatever kind of razor you were using before. This will give you an opportunity to figure out the most comfortable way to hold your razor and also to begin to get comfortable using your non-dominant hand. Straight shaving is an acquired skill with a pretty steep learning curve for most of us, and from what you've written it seems like you might benefit from taking this in small bites, you know?

You don't mention whether you've stropped your razor yet--after 3 shaves, it's probably really in need of stropping. Again, it pays to go slowly while you're learning--proper stropping keeps your razor nice and comfortably sharp for a long time. Improper stropping will dull the ege and cause you to have to get the razor honed much more quickly than would usually be necessary. And the shave will not be comfortable. When stropping, you don't need to use any more pressure than is necessary to just keep the razor spine and edge in contact with the strop--basically just the weight of the blade itself.

Lastly, you might want to use the "location" feature in the forums to see whether there are any other members in your area. You'll want to make sure that your location is entered in your profile first. Then you can pull up the map and see where other members are. Being able to get together with an experienced member will really help a lot.

Hope this helps! Hang in there, be patient, and stick with it. It will get better! And it will have been worth it!

I'm really new too, but find I get a pretty good shave already. I do have quite a light growth (even though I'm not young, almost 50). I find I only need to do ATG on my jawline; and mainly on my left jawline. When you say "trying to go under the jawbone from my right ear towards my chin.." do you really mean across the length of the jawline from the ear to the chin? Or are you shaving either down the face over the jawline continuing down the neck or up the neck, over the jaw up the face? It's my understanding that generally shaving across the jaw/neck area is almost impossible (I might be wrong). I'd only go up or down (N or S) along there not E or W. I think, really, if you are getting razor burn from too much pressure and STILL not getting much of a shave maybe the razor is in fact not sharp enough? One would think if you're using so much pressure that you get burn you'd be removing hair (and maybe too much skin, too). When I started I used a VERY light pressure (more because I was petrified), and continue to do so. You say you have a strop, so I'm assuming you use it before each shave. I myself do 30 round trips on the canvas and 70 on the leather before each and every shave. I also was very mindful of not 'rolling the edge'; and I do believe this can be done in error if one doesn't really try and keep the strop taught. A strop that isn't held taught enough will sag, therefore impacting on the actual edge of the blade, and rounding it (or so I gather). All this (and I hope what I say is correct) was gathered from the forums and the Wiki (and videos), so the comments about Wiki being your friend (and also all the helpful people here) is very valid.
I'd concentrate on only ONE direction (WTG) first, and I found you DO need to very much try and use both hands (as much as you may only want to use one) and you DO need to really research and try different ways to hang the scales. I used a butter knife, envisaging where the scales would hang and even drew little diagrams and made notes. It's too hard to try the different angles when you've got a blade held to your neck; much easier with something that's not going to hurt you!

FWIW I will share some of my (limited) experience.
I have never had razor burn (at least I don't think I have) so I can't comment on that.
I would suggest that you strop carefully and with many strokes as carlmaloschneider said.
I had my best shave ever today with my little 4/8 mandarin full hollow and was surprised at how little pressure I was using after stropping on the canvas side then the leather.
I have just started to use the canvas side of the strop and it does make a difference. IMHO
I have the issue where the hair under my jawline grows towards my ear and WTG passes are an exercise in contortionism.
I shave this area with the point of the razor down, my left ear on my shoulder, my left hand reaching over my head and stretching the skin up over my jaw and, at the same time, trying to push my right shoulder towards the floor.
All this while trying to keep the point of the blade under control, the edge at the correct angle and the pressure as light as possible whilst keeping the edge in contact with my face.
I'm not even going to try and describe the XTG and ATG passes but, hey, it works for me.
The point that I'm trying to make is that it has taken over six months for me to get this part correct.
Sometimes it pays to try holding the razor in an 'unconventional' way so that you are able to keep a firm hold of the razor, keep control of the angle and use the lightest pressure. (What I believe are the major points to a good shave)
I hope I have given you some ideas that may help you solve your dilemma.
The only other suggestion that I would make is that you keep trying and it will get better. Also, never lose sight of the fact that we have all been where you are!!
Enjoy the ride on the learning curve and let us all know how you are going.
Cheers,
Geoff

I feel your pain. I have an extremely tough beard and it grows thick! I had razor burn the first dozen shaves in different places. At first, I recognized it was angle so I corrected that but still got it in some areas. Then, reading some other posts, I realized my lather was too dry so fixed that. It got better but still some problems. I finally realized that I wasn't prepping well enough for such a tough beard. I started letting the shower run on my face and neck a little longer, then doing better work with preshave oil or cream and extra hot towel stints. Now, three weeks in, I only get a spot with razor burn if I 1) hurry, or 2) lose focus and let the angle screw up.
Another thing I figured out was that when stropping, I wasn't doing enough to fully align the cutting edge so I started doing more passes on the strop and that helped a LOT.

There are still some areas on my neck and just below the jawline that will not be BBS, but are still every bit as good or better than I ever got with a cartridge. cheeks and such are BBS to the max, and SWMBO can't help but reach over and rub on them.

Don't give up!!!

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Originally Posted by Jdulaney

I bought a shave ready straight razor, strop and brush from whippeddog.com. Today is my third attempt, and something isn't working. The first I had major razorburn, which I attribute to probably using the wrong angle. My biggest problem though is I'm not getting much of a shave. I've tried all three directions multiple times, but I've still got stubble. I don't know if I just have a tough beard, if I've messed up the hone on the blade already, or something else. I'm also finding it awkward to find the right way to hold my hands and the razor for certain passes. I'm right handed, and trying to go under my jawbone from my right ear toward my chin, the blade is long and the scales get in the way. suggestions?

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I am still new to this hobby, but here are some thoughts that come to mind based on my own experiences:
- I agree 100% with the points the other members posted to your thread. Great having a great bunch of people pitching in to help you out!
- Is your lather too dry? This can cause the razor to drag rather than glide on your facial skin.
- Are you stretching the skin? Stretching the skin is well emphasized in this forum.
- Are you using slow and short strokes? Made a world of difference for me. Less nicks too!
- Be patient, I keep telling myself that!!

Hope your next shave is a better one! Have fun and enjoy!
Patrick

You might find someone to help you out nearby you here: http://straightrazorpalace.com/vbgooglemapme.php Take your time and post a pin where you live as well. Most folks here are more than willing to help a fellow wet shaver learn the ropes...

Welcome to the forum, Nice to see another member from Jacksonville. Larry is a good guy, and a friend of mine. If he said the blade was shave ready, it probably was. Shaving with a straight razor takes time and practice. You'll get it, try not to get frustratred. Honing, is whole different ball game, you may have done more harm than good. 9 times out of 10, when your new, it is your technique. If you want, pm me, I'll be glad to check out your razor for you, and hone it up it necessary, and help you out...

P.S. I'm right handed as well, When I do the right side of my face, sometimes the scales are straight out, They don't need to be like an "L" at all times, Move them if necessary...Whatever feels comfortable to you. I find, if the blade and scales are (somewhat) straight, I can shave the right side easier..Hope this makes sense.

Rich

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Originally Posted by Jdulaney

I bought a shave ready straight razor, strop and brush from whippeddog.com. Today is my third attempt, and something isn't working. The first I had major razorburn, which I attribute to probably using the wrong angle. My biggest problem though is I'm not getting much of a shave. I've tried all three directions multiple times, but I've still got stubble. I don't know if I just have a tough beard, if I've messed up the hone on the blade already, or something else. I'm also finding it awkward to find the right way to hold my hands and the razor for certain passes. I'm right handed, and trying to go under my jawbone from my right ear toward my chin, the blade is long and the scales get in the way. suggestions?

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I know what you mean, 2.5 weeks in and I still have razor burn, looks a right mess but I shave at night so by morning it has subdued somewhat, luckily.

Trying not to get frustrated for fear of cutting myself but I go over and over the same areas at multiple angles and multiple passes in different directions but the my stubble still remains but it is reduced.

Apparently a good workman never blames his tools but it is easier to do so than blaming ones techniques so I am still persevering.

I was touching up the worse areas or actually going over my entire face with my DE but I don’t do this anymore as my skin can’t take anymore scraping so I start my new day with what seems a full 24 hour growth.

As for holding the razor in the correct position for certain passes, it does get easier and easier to work out, I grab the razor with my left hand (even though I am right handed) and shave away without realizing it. Two weeks ago I was very cautious of passing the razor from my right hand to my left and now I do this without even thinking and realizing I have done this.

I do hope you shaves like mine become better and better as time rolls on, it has to so don’t give up.

What's your prep like?
It plays a very large part of the shave.
Other than that, as others have said, use no pressure (envision trying to scoop/slice the lather off your face taking as much lather as possible but touching your skin as little as possible); keep a low angle (20 degrees or so. It's lower than what some recommend. It won't cut as close but it will reduce skin irritation. You can increase angle as you go); go slow and do one with the grain pass.

I've very little to add, except to reiterate what bharner just said--a properly sharp razor should take off your beard with no more force than it takes for it to take off the lather. Take Zib up on his offer to check out your edge.

Also, try shaving with cold water--as cold as you can run it from the tap. Many folks get less irritation that way. Many (myself included) also believe it's a closer shave than with hot water.

I shave at bedtime in the summer, so my skin can get over the general insult before I take it out into the hot sweaty world for the day.

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Originally Posted by roughkype

I shave at bedtime in the summer, so my skin can get over the general insult before I take it out into the hot sweaty world for the day.

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+1 there for the summer! It's currently 103F here...

My rules for a good shave in order of importance:

1. Preparing the beard.
2. Stretching the skin while shaving.
3. Good post shave.
4. Correct angles.
5. Sharp razor.

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Originally Posted by carazor

My rules for a good shave in order of importance:

1. Preparing the beard.
2. Stretching the skin while shaving.
3. Good post shave.
4. Correct angles.
5. Sharp razor.

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Great post, I hope you don't mind my adding:
6. Short and slow strokes.
7. Do not rush your shave.

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Originally Posted by pmburk

Great post, I hope you don't mind my adding:
6. Short and slow strokes.
7. Do not rush your shave.

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Ah, great points as well!!

A single misaligned shave will cause razor burn and dull the edge permanently. I suggest lots of stropping and if things do not get better send it back, ask for forgiveness and a touch up.

Hello,

If you read my introduction in the beginners sub forum you will see that I had exactly the same problems as yourself. I gave up and put the razor away for years. Big mistake. I, like you bought a shave ready razor and a strop. All the stropping in the world would not have given me a good shave. When I did eventually get the razor out again I had a hone and with minimal honing the razor gave me an shave that was equal to any other method that I had used previously. I then went on a steep learning curve that you won't have to because, all the info you need is available on this site. In short, time is the key. You must take your time and learn a whole new way of shaving. You have to re-map your face in your mind. I still have trouble getting really close on either side of my adams apple but, I'm getting better all the time. Read the info on here and don't skip over any of it, it is experience that has been gained over many years. Most of all, stick with it and you will reap the rewards

Pete

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Originally Posted by roughkype

I've very little to add, except to reiterate what bharner just said--a properly sharp razor should take off your beard with no more force than it takes for it to take off the lather. Take Zib up on his offer to check out your edge.

Also, try shaving with cold water--as cold as you can run it from the tap. Many folks get less irritation that way. Many (myself included) also believe it's a closer shave than with hot water.

I shave at bedtime in the summer, so my skin can get over the general insult before I take it out into the hot sweaty world for the day.

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This is a good point. I have a friend who's father was a barber way back when and he tell me that his Dad only used cold water when giving a wet shave. Why? Because the cold water makes the steel contract, thus giving a keener, tighter edge to the blade. Hot water will make the steel expand, thickening the edge and dulling the blade. True or not, it works for me!!

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Originally Posted by Jdulaney

I bought a shave ready straight razor, strop and brush from whippeddog.com. Today is my third attempt, and something isn't working. The first I had major razorburn, which I attribute to probably using the wrong angle. My biggest problem though is I'm not getting much of a shave. I've tried all three directions multiple times, but I've still got stubble. I don't know if I just have a tough beard, if I've messed up the hone on the blade already, or something else. I'm also finding it awkward to find the right way to hold my hands and the razor for certain passes. I'm right handed, and trying to go under my jawbone from my right ear toward my chin, the blade is long and the scales get in the way. suggestions?

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Take a deep breath....I know you may feel frustrated, just follow the advice given, at
this forum.
I my self use a glide motion, others use a sickle motion.
I have purchased two razors and had a third honed by Larry at whippeddog.
I then stropped them my self on some newspaper to smooth them out a little more,
but they were vary shave ready with out that step (I strop all my razors on newspaper)
Do not be afraid to finish with a safety razor.
Generation of men shaved with a straight, some guys can do it after a few shaves, others
take a year, just relax it will come, just try a little at a time using your left had for the left
side of your face, don't worry you have the rest of your life to learn this art, then you
will have a feeling of accomplishment
, it will save you from having to trek up Mt, Everest.

Well - you are getting some great advice from the previous posts.

I'd like to add this. While you are reviewing prep, lather building, stropping, shave angles, pressure etc., try and set sone realistic goals for yourself. Three shaves into this is mighty young - thirty shaves is still young. I think everybody would be surprised if you had a safe comfortable BBS shave after three shaves. And, IMHO I think going into 3 passes out the shoot is too much for your skin to handle at this point - especially since you are still trying to get your angles and pressure correct. A straight razor takes off a lot of derma and your skin needs to break in to accomodate this.

The advice that is given here is to start slow concentrating on safe and comfortable and then start going into quality. Finish with a DE (or other) razor while you are getting the experience and improving. This will take time and to put it in perspective, 6 months is a very realistic timeframe.

Good luck and keep at it.

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Originally Posted by Alembic

Well - you are getting some great advice from the previous posts.

I'd like to add this. While you are reviewing prep, lather building, stropping, shave angles, pressure etc., try and set sone realistic goals for yourself. Three shaves into this is mighty young - thirty shaves is still young. I think everybody would be surprised if you had a safe comfortable BBS shave after three shaves. And, IMHO I think going into 3 passes out the shoot is too much for your skin to handle at this point - especially since you are still trying to get your angles and pressure correct. A straight razor takes off a lot of derma and your skin needs to break in to accomodate this.

The advice that is given here is to start slow concentrating on safe and comfortable and then start going into quality. Finish with a DE (or other) razor while you are getting the experience and improving. This will take time and to put it in perspective, 6 months is a very realistic timeframe.

Good luck and keep at it.

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Great advice. I've been at it now for almost 2 months and I'm just now getting to the point I can get a consistently good shave using only the straight razor. About 60 or so shaves down. The biggest thing, I know when to back off to prevent getting bad razor burn. I'm willing to sacrifice BBS for a comfortable shave.

Pushing your way through a rough shave may be the macho thing to do, but a wiser one is to have a backup plan. Personally I've had good and bad straight razor shaves, depending on many easily and not so easily defined factors. When it's not going well I try to suck up my pride and go to the DE as my escape plan. My face is much happier for it and ready for a shave the next day, rather than needing several days to heal.

Good luck (to both of us I suppose)

This may sound ridiculous but I straight razor shave for over an hour or more, time flies when you are learning and trying to shave all the whiskers down to skin level but I still can’t manage to do this and still getting rather frustrated to say the least with all the remaining stubble, but hanging in there.

I too finish off the shave with my DE but rather gently as my skin as had quite enough at this point over an hour later.

Then I rub the Alum block over my face and wince in torment and once my pain levels drop smoother my face with witch hazel, this process usually heels my face by morning.

Then I have to wash up the soap dish, lather bowl, DE razor, shaving brush, alum block and last but certainly not least the straight razor. Certainly I need to time mange for all this as it can be 2 hours of the shaving process, course this includes the shave preparation time that have not mention above.

7 days a week that’s 14 hours, what on earth???!!

I think you are trying to do too much at once.
Just try one side of your face, or just one side
of your jaw.

As it stands now, with the pain, and time, it would
be easy for you to start dreading trying to shave
with a straight razor.

If you injure your face, then you will have to wait until
your skin recovers.

You will make more progress with four 10 minute shaves
than one two hour shave in a weeks time.

Of course one's enjoyment is also vary important for shaving,
and everything else

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Originally Posted by planetocean

This may sound ridiculous but I straight razor shave for over an hour or more, time flies when you are learning and trying to shave all the whiskers down to skin level but I still can’t manage to do this and still getting rather frustrated to say the least with all the remaining stubble, but hanging in there.

I too finish off the shave with my DE but rather gently as my skin as had quite enough at this point over an hour later.

Then I rub the Alum block over my face and wince in torment and once my pain levels drop smoother my face with witch hazel, this process usually heels my face by morning.

Then I have to wash up the soap dish, lather bowl, DE razor, shaving brush, alum block and last but certainly not least the straight razor. Certainly I need to time mange for all this as it can be 2 hours of the shaving process, course this includes the shave preparation time that have not mention above.

7 days a week that’s 14 hours, what on earth???!!

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Originally Posted by tboyer

I think you are trying to do too much at once.
Just try one side of your face, or just one side
of your jaw.

As it stands now, with the pain, and time, it would
be easy for you to start dreading trying to shave
with a straight razor.

If you injure your face, then you will have to wait until
your skin recovers.

You will make more progress with four 10 minute shaves
than one two hour shave in a weeks time.

Of course one's enjoyment is also vary important for shaving,
and everything else

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When I first took up straight razor shaving, I followed the forum's wiki page. Oh man was it tempting to try to do everything all at once, but I persevered. Now I do a WTG then a ATG shave Sunday through Friday mornings and I am usually finished in 35-40 minutes. Sunday mornings are a tad long because I usually do not shave on Saturdays unless there is a reason to. Usually Saturdays are my "no shave" days to give my face a little break.
Straight razor shaving is all about patience, patience, patience, and more patience. Take your time, enjoy it "planetocean". We're here for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by planetocean

Then I rub the Alum block over my face and wince in torment and once my pain levels drop smoother my face with witch hazel, this process usually heels my face by morning.

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You,re doing a cold water rinse on your face to remove the leftover shave cream right? I find that it almost eliminates the need for alum. And really kills the razor burn.

I'm a novice but., I think you are over doing it with an hour for a shave. I started out like you, dedicating lots of time to it, with a razor that, I have just learned, is on the "ones to avoid list". The result was 5 yrs more of conventional shaving. 5 yrs lost in my opinion. Read the advice on here for newcomers and follow it. I didn't and paid the price. I have maybe done 50 shaves now and it doesn't take more than half an hour. If I put the cigs and the beer away I could probably be done in 20 mins!! Bottom line is, baby steps. That's the way with this. To rush it is to ruin it. Do one side of your face with your straight and the other side the old way, I guarantee you that you will spend the day feeling the side that you did with the straight. This will motivate you to learn how to do the other side. Good luck and. keep going with the straight!!

Pete

I feel as if I have hijacked this tread a tad but I guess all beginners can learn from all the comments and thanks to those of you that have replied to my above posting.

Yes I am a little impatient at the best of times and I need to take a deep breath and step back a few notches in my shaving before I take a few notches out of my skin in frustration.

I will endeavor to take heed of all your advice and take things a bit slower as difficult as this may be for my impatient learning curve mind to allow.

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Originally Posted by planetocean

I feel as if I have hijacked this tread a tad but I guess all beginners can learn from all the comments and thanks to those of you that have replied to my above posting.

Yes I am a little impatient at the best of times and I need to take a deep breath and step back a few notches in my shaving before I take a few notches out of my skin in frustration.

I will endeavor to take heed of all your advice and take things a bit slower as difficult as this may be for my impatient learning curve mind to allow.

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You're only human like the rest of us. :-) You'll be fine!! Before you know it, it'll become second nature and you'll be giving advice to newbies as well. Many great shaves to you and don't forget, have fun, enjoy!