Lots of pain - bad lather or dull blade?

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10-09-2011, 02:41 AM
OmniRiot

Lots of pain - bad lather or dull blade?

Hi.

I have a dovo full hollow razor, and have shaved about 20-30 times. For every shave, once the blade touches the first hair on my face, I feel an intense pulling sensation that is painful. I've purchased a 4000/8000 norton stone, and followed the youtube videos on how to hone. I did about 40 passes on both the 4000 and 8000 sides and stropped with the linnen and leather sides. The blade passes (I think) the thumbnail and the thumb tests

Is shaving typically painful and should I just "tough it out"? Should I hone the blade more with the 4000/8000? Strop more? Lather more?

Thanks in advance
10-09-2011, 03:08 AM
rodb

The thumb nail test can actually dull the blade, especially after stropping. Use the thumb pad or HHT instead.
10-09-2011, 03:12 AM
bharner

Can you post some photos of your edge? As close up as you can get.
Shaving shouldn't be painful.
10-09-2011, 03:13 AM
OmniRiot

Thanks. I think it passes the thumb pad test (the blade clings lightly to the grooves on my thumb) but does NOT pass the HHT. Should I continue to hone the blade with the 4000/8000/strop?

Thinking about more, I think my lather is fine. I literally feel pain for every single hair that the blade touches, so I think it has to be the blade...but not sure what to do
10-09-2011, 03:24 AM
rodb

Quote:

Originally Posted by bharner

Can you post some photos of your edge? As close up as you can get.
Shaving shouldn't be painful.

+1
It shouldn't be that way, on my face I barely feel a WTG pass
10-09-2011, 03:25 AM
bharner

*disclaimer* I can set a bevel on a 1k and I can refresh an edge on my PHIG but I haven't yet tried my hand at the 4/8k range yet.

I have 3 razors I shave with. I can't get a single one of them to properly pass the HHT. They were purchased from 3 different, well known & respected, members here. All were advertised as shave ready. All shave my face incredibly well.

Will your razor pop/shave ARM hair? If so all I can offer is to try the pyramid method and numbers in the wiki. A lot of fellows say they work.

If your razor won't cut ARM hair easily then you probably need to set the bevel. Again, see the wiki. Hope it is some help. If you can post pics the experts can probably offer more input.
10-09-2011, 03:26 AM
carlmaloschneider

Hi OmniRiot,
Shaving (properly) with a straight razor is typically pain free. You shouldn't think you need to 'tough it out', it should be a painless pleasure!

First, was the razor sold as 'shave ready'. Was it ACTUALLY shave ready? If you don't know, send it away to be sharpened properly and meanwhile buy one that you know really is shave ready. I've been very happy with the razors I've bought here. When you start honing you need a 'benchmark'. I think if you've just started honing without really knowing if the razor you had was dull or not, you'll just end up guessing. Having a well sharpened blade to compare your honing attempts to is really important. Even if you start with a sharp razor, if you only had that one, I think after a while you'll forget what sharp REALLY is and end up putting up with a poor-ish edge, assuming you're not an expert at honing immediately on turning your hand to it.

Secondly, you make no mention of cream, soap, hot water, pre-shave oils, etc. Preparation is really important. Yours may be perfect, but it's worth mentioning just in case your using gel from a can on a dry face or something!

Thirdly, technique. That is, 30 degree angle of blade to skin (or less), no pressure, no sideways movement of razor (i.e. slicing).

Fourthly, stropping, and stropping is all about technique, too. I find the main points are lightness of touch (almost no pressure), no rolling of edge on surface, even stroke, concentration.

My first thoughts are though that the blade is simply dull. You could learn up on honing and give it a whirl, but in my experience if you just sent the razor away for a honing by an expert it'd be done and back before you learnt how to hone properly :-)

Carl
10-09-2011, 04:42 AM
fiero11

you might need to set the bevel on your razor using a 1k stone, and you didn't say if you lapped your norton stone and are truely honing on a flat surface. while it might look flat, it might have slight variations on the surfaces. Don't be discouraged learning to hone, it takes time much like shaving. If your razor is properly sharpened, it should be pain free and not tug or pull at your whiskers on your face.
10-09-2011, 05:26 PM
OmniRiot

Thanks for all the good advice...still struggling.

I got the razor new from Dovo and it was listed as "shave ready". After about a month, I had the razor professionally sharpened. After another month, I bought the Norton 4000/8000 (new) and sharpened myself (including stropping on canvase and leather). From the initial condition, professional sharpen, and self sharpen, the result has been the same - it hurts alot and makes my skin red and puffy, and it burns after. I am using colonel conk shaving soap and a badger brush, I seem to have a good lather going.

I followed the pyramid honing method today, and same result. Starting to get discouraged...maybe my beard is too course and incompatible with a straight razor? Maybe I just have sensitive skin?

I am using this video to guide my shaving technique
DOVO STRAIGHT RAZOR SHAVE FULL HOLLOW GROUND BLADE Wet Shaving First Pass with Grain Cut Throat - YouTube

Any other ideas??? I would hate to abandon straight razor shaving, especially having made such an investment
10-09-2011, 05:38 PM
rodb

If it's not the razor, it could be angle (to much, the spine should be very close to the face), to much pressure or prep
10-09-2011, 05:41 PM
TrilliumLT

Send out your razor to one of the many great guys offering there honing services. This way you will know what a shave ready razor feels like. Get some pre-shave cream or oil. I like using Proraso.
10-09-2011, 05:45 PM
PensacolaTiger

How about stropping? If you are using too heavy a hand when stropping, you may be rolling the edge.

Did you strop the razor when it came back from the professional sharpening? You shouldn't have had to. If you did, maybe you roiled the edge.
10-09-2011, 05:59 PM
bharner

Try using a really low angle with the spine about a penny's width off your face. It won't get you super smooth but it's such a low angle that if your blade is sharp it shouldn't irritate the skin.

Don't forget pressure. You want to keep the blade against your skin but not be pushing hard against it.
That can lead to razor burn and skin thinning which can be the cause of irritation and inflammation.

Also, tell us about your stropping routine. Do you strop before every shave? How many laps? What kind of strop are using?
10-09-2011, 06:03 PM
asj1991

Had the same problem with the same razor... Trust me, you want it professionally honed. "Shave ready" is not always shave ready, so I would guess that is probably the problem. At least knock that out so that you can rule it out when it comes back and if you are still having the problem, its either technique or prep.
10-09-2011, 06:57 PM
hoglahoo

You definitely want to avoid intense burning sensations. It sounds like the razor needs to be looked at again by a pro. If you have to press the razor into your face to get it to shave, that is a problem. You don't want to use pressure, that is what causes the red puffy irritated skin.

I don't think the lather would be causing this since the intense burning begins when the razor touches your face, not the lather
10-09-2011, 07:35 PM
deighaingeal

My opinion for what its worth:
-You did not receive a shave ready blade
-You didn't mention who honed you blade professionally: scissor/knife sharpeners generally know squat about razors
-After honing yourself you most probably dulled the edge, its common for new honers
-You could very well have rolled the edge from stropping
-The concept of no pressure is very difficult for us, don't be surprised if you are using too much
-Despite what most beginners think they are not watching their angle as close as they could
-Your lather COULD be a little off

As you can see this is a lot of variables that can ruin an otherwise great shave. I would suggest reducing some:
-Send your razor to a known honer to be properly treated
-Don't strop the razor once you receive it in the mail
-No pressure means no pressure; I was once asked how much pressure is too little, I responded "when the razor isn't touching your face you are using too little pressure
-An angle of approximately 1-2 spine widths away from your skin will give you a strong foundation to start from
-If you still think that your lather is a little off feel free to post a picture here after you make some lather and we can analyze it
-Check the member map for members in your area or post your location, you could find someone close by who could do this all for you

The people on this forum are extremely helpful and always seem up for a meet, heck we had two last year in Washington State.
10-09-2011, 07:57 PM
justalex

most likely sounds like the razor, as everyone has said already. Send it to one of the guys here on the forums, they'll sharpen it up good and you'll be shaving in no time.

I know lathering made a huge difference to me at the start - stropping as well - a good stropping can knock your razors edge up a few notches and feel like a different razor when done properly.

And if you have time post some pics, quickest way to get some answers.

Shaving with a straight should be totally painless, if you get razorburn, there's something not right - thin lather, dull blade, could be anything. find out what it is because I remember the razorburn I had when I started and it wasn't pretty especially with an alum block after shaving.

regards Alex
10-11-2011, 01:55 AM
OmniRiot

Thanks everyone, much appreciated...although the electric is looking appealing at this point, I am committed to making this work. I did have it sharpened by a knife/scissor sharpener - maybe that was the issue. Let me find a straight razor expert to sharpen it. Any recommendations? I live in Charlotte NC
10-11-2011, 01:59 AM
rodb

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmniRiot

Thanks everyone, much appreciated...although the electric is looking appealing at this point, I am committed to making this work. I did have it sharpened by a knife/scissor sharpener - maybe that was the issue. Let me find a straight razor expert to sharpen it. Any recommendations? I live in Charlotte NC

That is almost for sure the problem, if you can't find anyone close PM me
10-11-2011, 02:17 AM
pcb01

Tons of straight guys in NC. If none respond, contact me. I'm in Florence, SC. Be happy to spend an afternoon teaching you.
10-11-2011, 04:48 AM
conroygc

I agree with the other about honing.

Also, bead prep is, to me, almost more essential than how sharp the blade is. I have to use several hot towels or take a shower before I shave, or I get very irritated skin. I would also recommend experimenting with a pre-shave oil. I have used a few kinds, and I like to put them in a glass bottle and keep them on a candle warmer so they're nice and warm when I'm ready to shave. This has improved my shaves quite a lot!
FWIW, I have extremely course facial hair and very soft skin. One barber said it reminded them of a Middle Eastern skin/beard type.
10-11-2011, 07:45 AM
roughkype

In my opinion, there are better soaps out there than Col. Conk; I only used it for a few shaves then gave up on it. Maybe if you use a water softener it's OK, but I've never used one so don't know if the Col. plays nicer with some waters than others. You might try a puck of a nicer soap, something nicer than you can get at the drug store or Wal-Mart. I've tried those brands (Williams, Van de Hagen, Conk) and my experience was that nicer soaps and creams do make for closer & gentler shaves.

About pressure: If other factors are off, the temptation is often to push harder. With a properly sharp straight, you should only try to gently scrape off your shaving lather. The whiskers will come off as a side effect. If it's not sharp enough, you'll get the pulling and if you compensate with pressure you're going to get more pain from razor burn.

You might try a razor from whippeddog.com; it'll be cosmetically challenged but it'll be a shave-ready vintage blade at a great price point. Maybe you've got the sort of beard that really needs a wedge. The benefits of a second razor are 1) you have a known good blade to compare your current one to, 2) you'll have one in house when you send the other out for honing, 2.5) If you're honing your own, it gives you a reference edge (I guess this is the same as benefit 1), 3) you can try a different grind. There are other benefits, but they're less virtuous. Things like priming your RAD.

I hope you find a solution. You're a good man for sticking it out despite the pain.
10-11-2011, 01:06 PM
TrilliumLT

Quote:

Originally Posted by roughkype

In my opinion, there are better soaps out there than Col. Conk; I only used it for a few shaves then gave up on it. Maybe if you use a water softener it's OK, but I've never used one so don't know if the Col. plays nicer with some waters than others. You might try a puck of a nicer soap, something nicer than you can get at the drug store or Wal-Mart. I've tried those brands (Williams, Van de Hagen, Conk) and my experience was that nicer soaps and creams do make for closer & gentler shaves.
I hope you find a solution. You're a good man for sticking it out despite the pain.

I agree Col.Conk soaps smell good but dosnt work great. A easy way to fix this is to go to the drug store and pick up some Glycerin to add a few drops in to your lather. I find this turns even a not the greatest soap into one that not to bad soap.

Stick with it and you will be rewarded.
10-11-2011, 01:17 PM
Slartibartfast

Do you know how they sharpened it? I just hope they did not use a grinding wheel or electric knife sharpener.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmniRiot

Thanks everyone, much appreciated...although the electric is looking appealing at this point, I am committed to making this work. I did have it sharpened by a knife/scissor sharpener - maybe that was the issue. Let me find a straight razor expert to sharpen it. Any recommendations? I live in Charlotte NC
10-11-2011, 06:47 PM
hoglahoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

Do you know how they sharpened it? I just hope they did not use a grinding wheel or electric knife sharpener.

I hope not. That would not be very professional. I know a guy who tried to shave with a staken knive, and he did not last

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmniRiot

After about a month, I had the razor professionally sharpened
10-11-2011, 07:53 PM
justalex

I've heard MWF is expensive over the water, but according to other guys on the board your better importing it from here I would suggest trying that as an alternative to col conk, its a very moisturising soap

an alternative to conroys advice is to get some hair conditioner and leave it on your beard for between 5-15 minutes, wash off then shave, see how that goes