At what point do you stop calling yourself a beginner?

So I was wondering, when exactly does someone move past the beginner stage in your eyes?

Example:
I've been shaving since September, I can now get a pretty good shave on most of my face with just my straight. I've honed my dovo back to shaving, and I resurrected a taylors 1000 from butterknifing. Do I cut myself occasionally, yes, are parts of my face not as smooth as I would like, sometimes...

Personally, across the board with all things I learn, I consider myself to be past the beginner stage when I can give meaningful and useful advice to other "beginners." Now some of it is just through my reading and knowledge, not actual practice, but I try to cite that as often as possible when talking to people.

So I can shave... on the other hand, there is an entire world I have not yet learned about, with restorations, honing (on more than a norton 4/8) stropping and compounds, different strokes with the razor, different brushes and methods, new soaps and creams, pre shaves, post shaves, etc etc. really it seems like I will never stop improving my skills and learning.

I'm interested in your thoughts on this, because some people that say they are still beginners are getting great shaves after a few months, some it might take years, some claim to not be beginners, but every shave results in bloodshed!

I think you stop being a beginner when you up and die. If you have learnt everything about the particular thing, in this case the ins and outs of open razors and their use and upkeep, and there is nothing that you can possibly learn anymore, and nothing new can be thought of and learnt, then and only then are you no longer a beginner. Just my thought on the matter.


Mick

After more than a year I like to see myself as intermediate (although I still consider myself a beginner in several spesific areas, like restoring, honing with other stones than the ones I know etc.)

When did it change from beginner? When I started to get consistently good shaves? When I got consistent honing results? I'm really not sure, but I think maybe the changing point was when I started to feel confident enough to give advice based on my own experience and knowledge.


With that said I learn something new more or less every single day, wether it is from browsing the forums, chatting with other members or a slight improvement in my shaving, honing or restauration it's one of the many things making this hobby interesting :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MickR

I think you stop being a beginner when you up and die. If you have learnt everything about the particular thing, in this case the ins and outs of open razors and their use and upkeep, and there is nothing that you can possibly learn anymore, and nothing new can be thought of and learnt, then and only then are you no longer a beginner. Just my thought on the matter.


Mick

---

Well said Mick!

I think of myself as a beginner.

Like you, I started using a straight in September. I can now get a good shave in a timely manner. Still manage to nick myself on a regular basis--usually a sign that my attention wandered or that I'm not ready for those advanced Master Barber moves......Still, I'm no longer daunted by my chin.

My confidence in my sharpening and stropping has gotten to the point where I prefer my edge to the edges that came on my razors originally. So my confidence in shaving in general has increased.

Perhaps most telling, the other day I used a Jagger DE safety razor to shave with--I was in a hurry. I didn't enjoy the process or shave nearly as much as when I use a sharp Hart razor after a hot shower. I think this shift, the greater sense of pleasure and confidence in using the straight, marks a change for me from being an exploring novice to being a genuine beginner. I figure in another decade or so I'll have a genuine knack for using the straight and might consider myself an amateur.

I like Mick's statement.

There was a thread about this a while back, and I think I posted something to the effect of if you don't feel like a beginner, then you probably aren't. However, upon further reflection, as Mick states, there is always something else to learn about this hobby, so you may be an excellent shaver, but maybe you're a beginner at honing. Or maybe you're an excellent honer, but a beginner at restoring.

And it goes on and on.

Maxi is right, there are too many areas of straight razor shaving to just consider yourself a beginner or an expert. Take pride in the skills you have acquired and most of all realize that the fact that you know -anything- about straight razor shaving puts you ahead of the curve.

my criteria is this:

if I'm talking to someone about it, do I say to the person "I'm learning how to shave with a straight razor" or do I say "I shave with a straight razor?" I think I'm finally at the point where I consider myself an actual straight-razor user who's not "learning how to do it." Granted, I am still learning and always will be, but intermediacy also implies learning. You could call yourself an advanced shaver, but that doesn't mean you can't still be learning. So, if you can honestly call your self a straight-razor shaver, then you are no longer a beginner.

Me, I'd call myself intermediate, though barely so.

This a fair and honest question. SR shaving is definitely a journey - not a destination! There are so many facets to this wet-shaving adventure including pre-shave, brush, soap/cream prep, stropping, honing, etc. that you almost need to be more specific on what area you have mastered. But if I were to set a standard just for SR shaving then you are no longer a beginner if:

You can shave with the SR for 7-days with good closeness and comfort.

If your shaves are wildly unpredictable, challenging and sometimes frustrating then you are still a beginner. When you look forward to the pleasure and satisfaction that comes with another well executed shave then you are no longer a novice.

In my experience this level of aptitude is achieved by most in a few months and very few can honestly achieve it in a few weeks. I know I took several months because I simultaneously tried to learn honing. Starting with a disposable blade system or at least a professionally honed razor will truncate the learning curve substantially.

Good luck and welcome to the club.

Welcome to the club,

I believe that I will stop calling myself a beginner when I kick the bucket :) but guess I can say I'm not a rank newb anymore as i can get consistently close shaves with comfort now...... but I still have a ways to go and a lot to learn ;)


Stop learning start dying :)

Wow! Great forum. AS of many of you I have started in August/September, I can usually get a pretty good shave as I don't know if I truly still consider myself a beginner in more the sense I rarely knick or gouge my face. However, I do feel I am a novice with many things to learn and still try. SR shaving has truly made me appreciate "the art of shaving"!

Maybe one of the criteria for going beyond beginner would be when a satisfactory SR shave is achieved without much perceived effort or attention to detail and there are no complications, almost like an unconscious process where the process itself is never examined but simply flows from experience. Not mindless, but very mellow. I don't think it can be a black & white distinction.

I don't agree with Mick, though. Seriously, I've got to have some working concept of beginner, intermediate, and for G-d's sake allow experts to exist. That's an extreme version of "beginner".

I like what Mick said but I don't think of myself as a beginner. OTOH, I continue to learn .... shaving, lathering, stropping, honing ..... I keep an open mind and continue to improve. Sometimes in baby steps .... hitting a plateau and staying there for a long while and suddenly finding myself a little higher up the mountain. Like a lot of things it is probably a lifetime journey. As the old saying goes, I focus on the journey, not the destination.

Beginner in what regards? Shaving, honing, stropping, blade maintenance, lather making - or all of the above combined?

From strictly a shaving point of view, if your shaves are consistant and satisfactory and you can competantly maintain a shave ready edge indefinitely then I suppose you would no longer be considered a beginner. But taking all the aspects of this art into consideration, there's always something to learn and it's a long way to expert level.

I think when the actual shaving becomes a bore and you do not even think about it anymore.
The fun and excitment,at least for me is in the stones,the never ending hunt for the perfect edge,always looking for that magic rock.

I wouldn't say I'm a beginner AND I would not say I'm an expert. I would say I know just enough to be dangerous! Lol