Incredibly Frustrated / Thinking of quitting after 6 shaves.

I posted this thread a few days ago.

The long and short of it: I had shaved only 5 times and the blade was grabbing like crazy and not shaving properly.

I took advice, increased my stropping dramatically and hoped it would do something...

Alas, this morning I could barely cut my sideburns down, let alone the thicker hair on my chin.

After much cursing and anger, I quit and used a Gilette Fusion I had gotten in a white elephant game a couple weeks ago.

The blade pops hairs on my arm, but it doesn't do dick to my face. It doesn't even feel like it's sharp in the least. I don't know if I got a bum razor, or if I'm just not cut out for it. I certainly don't have the money to get it honed once a week. This entire endeavor feels like a ridiculous waste of money and a good 5 hours of time for just 6 damn shaves; none of which have been worth a damn.

Is there anything that you can offer as far as comfort or advice. I really don't want to quit, but I feel that i may have no choice if it's going to make me feel this angry every time I want to shave.

Well, the first thing you need to do is decide if the razor is shave ready. I didn't read your previous post so I don't know what was discussed there. If it's the razor it needs to be honed. if it's not then you need to take the blame. There is no magic and no shortcuts here.

I'm sure you have been told this already but you need to give it some time. It's a skill that needs to be learned and getting frustrated will bring you no closer. I would just try doing the sides of your face and no more until you get it right.

Remember, at one time this was the only ticket and everyone else had to learn. So what you are saying is you can't do something every man did say in 1880.

You need to take the attitude you are just going to learn to do it and have the patience to stick with it. if you can't do that then maybe straight shaving just isn't for you.

+1 to thebigspendur's advice.

I'm betting it's dull from improper stropping and/or technique, sounds like a rolled edge. Before you throw in the towel for good get your razor rehoned and give it another go. Check for honemeisters in your area or send it back to Larry to have it rehoned. When you get it back be sure to strop it carefully and slowly and try to tackle one part of your face at the time, only moving on when you master that section. Good luck

You need to be sure the blade is shave ready. Without knowing that there are too many variables. With that knowledge and assuming your stropping technique is correct, its just the learning curve of straight shaving. I went 16 shaves before it was comfortable and over 25 before it was clean and smooth. Hang in there and give it more time. It's all worth it in the end...

Good luck

I've seen it written here "You'll be getting great shaves in no time."

You're finding out that that isn't true. It may not take 100 shaves to get a good one, or even
great one, but it will likely take more than ten.

It sounds like your blade is dulling. In your original post, you described stropping 15 to 25 times.
The key to stropping is repetition. Each pass has a very slight effect on the edge. I routinely
do 100 passes and sometimes more, and that is on a razor that shaved fine. If yours is dulling,
then perhaps the Barber's Hone will help. You have to remember that both your honing and
stropping need time to improve. Keep at it, using your Fusion whenever you want to, and within
a few weeks you'll be on here bragging about it coming around for you. Good luck!

Check the members map to see if there is anyone close to you. If there is PM them to see if they could give you some face time to help you work through your troubles.

You have been given good advice on both threads. Incredible Frustration at this point really says that either you need to back off your expectations a little or may be you are making the right decision. If the razor is dull, get it re-honed and let's see what happens from there. This really is a world that when you put a little patience forward in learning it, it should be a relaxing endeavor for you there after.

Have fun.

I agree wholeheartedly with the expectations idea. While it is understandable that you would be frustrated at the moment, you do need to bear in mind that straight razor shaving, and particularly doing it effectively, is a real skill that can take many many months, even years, to become adept at and even longer to master.

Accepting setbacks is par for the course I am afraid - we've all had them and we've all pulled through the other side. It really is just a matter of dusting yourself off and jumping back on the horse.

I'd recommend getting a second razor if you can afford to. That way you can alternate, or at least still have one if you need to send the other out for honing. And it definitely sounds like you may need to get that razor looked at. At least try to take the excellent advice to find someone close to you who may be willing to help you out. Some of us need to see rather than read what to do. On that note, make sure you look at some of the really excellent videos members have taken the trouble to make. In particular for stropping, there is a sticky in the stropping section by AFDavis that is truly helpful for every stropper, whether beginner or not. I'd commend that video to you.

Best of luck!

James.

geauxtig3rs,

You have received excellent advice in both threads and, especially with the caliber of members who have answered your call for help, I certainly can't add anything extra. Yet I always try. Please forgive me.

It takes a while for things to come together for you. Ace mentioned the 100 shave mark. He wasn't saying you'd do well in 100 shaves or 10 shaves, but the conventional wisdom, at least amongst some straight shavers, is that you will feel a huge improvement in your technique 100 shaves in. I'm beyond that, and although this is true, not everything has come together for me for that perfect shave. I get a DFS most of the time, but I'm no expert.

There are threads here and there where members a year or so in, year and a half, pop up and say things have finally come together for them. This is no quick road. You have to ask yourself why you're doing this. There are plenty of reasons, but are they yours?

Assuming they are, you can still get great shaves as a newbie with straight razors and show up for work perfectly clean shaven. How? By doing one pass or so with your straight and finishing with your Mach. You might want to invest in a double edge; there's a learning curve there, but it's not nearly as bad and you will learn, with the right technique, how to get a great shave with a safety.

In the meantime, every time you do continue to use your straight, you'll gain confidence knowing that your shave DOES NOT DEPEND on your straight shaving technique. Eventually you'll be better WTG and will then progress ATG and finally XTG, maybe start using advanced techniques as your confidence improves, should you find them necessary.

I guess what I'm trying to say, in my verbose way, is don't stress yourself out learning your straight. Just practice and don't feel ashamed to clean up with another razor. Then, the process will be more fun for you, which is much better for learning. Take the stress out of the game. You'll thank yourself for that.

-Mark

Just as all here have advised you , take it slow, this just does not happen overnight. There is no failure,except in no longer trying. Lynn and
everyone else had to acquire the muscle memory to acquire a great shave and so will you. This site is a very immensurable one, with great members who all have the same goal/shaving utopia in mind. They will all help an give their best advise always. I learned alot just lurking on the site!

Everything's been said, but here's another vote for getting a mentor. .

I appreciate the advice and kind words from all.

I had to just walk away from it for awhile...

I had done an HHT after that awful shave (even post stropping) and it split hairs rather than cleaved them.

In that vein, I decided to strop the daylights out of it, and do "corrective action" as I had seen it described in another thread.

20 on canvas

40 on leather with pressure

30 on canvas

60 on leather no pressure

30 on canvas

120 on leather no pressure


After that run of stropping, I believe that I have succeeded in doing more than making my arm tired. I was able to consistently pass HHT from heel to toe and everywhere in between. I hope to tackle it again tomorrow.

I understand that I wasn't going to get a fantastic shave each time, but I also wasn't expecting for my 5th or 6th shave to be significantly worse than my 3rd (Which was my best so far, TBH).

I'll keep plugging away, and I hop to pick up another razor from Larry in the next couple weeks, so I can start a rotation. After that, I hope to learn honing and restoration in the coming months...there's an antiques district in the next town over. When I went there last week, I saw well over 40 razors in various states of disrepair, along with a 7 day Clauss set... ^_^.

Thanks again. This really is a wonderful community. I truly do apologize for my previous attitude.

EDIT: Just found 3 other members in my area...and one of them seems to be very active. Maybe I'll send them a PM or something this week.

If it took that much I'd recommend you send it to be honed, IMHO no amount of stropping will fix a razor that is not shave ready to begin with. Why leave an unknown variable in the equation? Once you know for sure it is shave ready you can focus on the technique.


Also, keep in mind that nobody became an expert overnight, Mozart didn't write concertos' his first time out on a Piano, he had to learn to play just like everyone else.. Hang in there it DOES get better :)

I'm a beginner myself a half year into it and feel your pain. It is not an easy skill to learn and the proper maintenance of the tools does nothing to help you along the way. You have enough to learn just in the shave itself to headache over the sharpness of the edge. Tell you what, if you promise to stick with it I will hone your razor for nothing until you gain enough confidence to learn to do it yourself. Just put er in an envelope and include return shipping. You might want to purchase a second razor to use during the days while the other is out for maintenance. I can hone er up and return it to you next day.

Daryl Fortney
419 E Ponce De Leon Ave - Apt B
Decatur, GA 30030

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Originally Posted by mcgyver74

If it took that much I'd recommend you send it to be honed, IMHO no amount of stropping will fix a razor that is not shave ready to begin with.

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I bought it shave ready from whipped dog.



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I'm quite sure it was shave ready, but your six shaves and possible poor stropping may have taken it down a notch. It took me a month, and some help from a mentor, before my stropping was helping the edge instead of dulling it.

I agree, your best bet is to have it re-sharpend to shave ready. When you receive it shave with it without stropping and see how it goes... You are at a difficult stage where you don't know if it is your technique or the razor, we have all been there!

If it is hurting, or skipping, or whatever, stop and re-assess...

Do you have Lynn's shaving dvd??

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

So what you are saying is you can't do something every man did say in 1880.

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I really doubt that "everyone" was straight shaving. Most I think either grew a beard or went to a barber.

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Originally Posted by geauxtig3rs

I had to just walk away from it for awhile...


I understand that I wasn't going to get a fantastic shave each time, but I also wasn't expecting for my 5th or 6th shave to be significantly worse than my 3rd (Which was my best so far, TBH).

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Walking away when frustrated was a very good decision.

Sorry to say this but if your experience is anything like mine you will find that you will have a 60th shave that is worse than you 30th shave or even a 60th worse than your tenth and so on. There are so many variables involved in Str8 shaving that forgetting any of them at any time and your shaves are going to be worse, even if you're more experienced. In my journey to learn to shave I have noticed that everytime I have thought I had it all figured out, I found out just how wrong I was. Relax, pay attention, and proceed slowly and before you know it you will be saying wow what a shave 98% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

+1 to thebigspendur's advice.

I'm betting it's dull from improper stropping and/or technique, sounds like a rolled edge. Before you throw in the towel for good get your razor rehoned and give it another go. Check for honemeisters in your area or send it back to Larry to have it rehoned. When you get it back be sure to strop it carefully and slowly and try to tackle one part of your face at the time, only moving on when you master that section. Good luck

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+1 to Ryan and the Big Spender! I believe that Ryan's advice is sound!! My only addition would be to ask the honemeister if you (should) strop before use!! Some want you to, some don't!! I know that when I'm sending a razor out for a friend to try I always ask them to just rinse off the oil and give it a go. After that I encourage them to feel free to strop it according to their usual routine before the next use and let me know what they think!

Personally I feel that a razor should be tried As Is so that there is a reference point established!

Don't give up! It just takes time! As far as the left hand goes, I may get beat up on this one, but you might try using the Right hand on both sides. I tried and tried but to no avail was I ever able to use the left hand! I've been shaving only with my right hand for 2 1/2 years and love my shaves!! With that said, the first time my then 17 year old son shaved with a straight, he could use both hands very easily and the little turd didn't get a single nick, cut, weeper or and razor burn! Boy was Dad Proud! I wish I would have been so lucky!

Keep at it, it'll come just not this week! :tu

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Originally Posted by jeffegg2

I really doubt that "everyone" was straight shaving. Most I think either grew a beard or went to a barber.

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Those were the guys that wouldnt/couldnt do it. ;)

I didn't read everyones advice to you, and I'm no expert by any means, but I agree with the rest, it takes time and patients. I've only been at it for about 8 months now and just got settled in to my nitch, except for post shave cream. Here's what I do: I start my shave, after a hot shower, with some C.O. Bigelow shave cream, letting it soak in while I strop 30/70. Shaving with the grain. Then, I lather up with Mitchell's Wool Fat soap and shave across the grain, and then against the grain with the Mitchell's soap. Each time rinching off your face with hot water. Seems to work very well for me and I'm only using a manufactured honed razor, what they call "shave ready." Havent had mine honed by a master yet.

Now we know what it like 'Not to Cut and Run' !(:-) read through all of the advice that's been given and it's been really good and supportive. I also know what it's like for your wife to look at you and seriously say: "you might not want to try that again When Nobody's at Home with You!"
Also found out quick about Alum!
Go slow, do the parts of the face that you've had luck with. Muscle memory will come.

We have all been through it when we started, it is an art that does take patients and skill to fully enjoy. It's funny to say now because i made some of these very mistakes year ago but every element of straight razor shaving adds up to how a shave goes. Each step is vitally important to a great shave starting with a properly honed razor, to proper stropping and stropping enough to get the blade straight, beard prep, technique during the shave, and after shave care.

You can't shortcut any of the steps NOT one. It's like a symphony each of the instruments together perfectly in tune and right on the mark make for wonderful heavenly musical experience, but if you have one instrument in the group out of tune, off beat, etc.. it will lessen or kill the enjoyment.

Which brings me to two points.
1. Will you always get that heavenly experience, of course not no two shaves will be the same but they will get progressively better and consistently better as you become more experienced, even the best of us have a crappy shave here and there no matter how experienced we have become.

Will you ever get that perfect shave? I believe we all continue to chase that perfect shave which is why we are always trying new hones, new strops, new creams, new blades, different techniques and the likes we get dam good one's but a perfect shave is one that you treasure.

2. What experience brings is the ability to know which of those instruments are out of tune, and which need to be corrected when things go out of sync, in the beginning it's hard to tell I'm under stropping, or my cream was to dry, or I rolled my edge. In time you will learn how to know what to tune to get a good shave, and what works for you.

Cream you can experiment with, stropping you can always try and correct, technique we are always learning and looking for new and better ways. Honing you need a benchmark, you need to know what a blade should feel like and that in and of itself can be a challenge, one easily corrected by being sent out to a credible honemeister.

Step back and learn to tune your instruments with patients and you too will one day enjoy the daily symphony that we have all grown to cherish in our shaving time.

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Assuming they are, you can still get great shaves as a newbie with straight razors and show up for work perfectly clean shaven. How? By doing one pass or so with your straight and finishing with your Mach. You might want to invest in a double edge; there's a learning curve there, but it's not nearly as bad and you will learn, with the right technique, how to get a great shave with a safety.

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The two nice things about DE shaving:

. . . A fresh DE blade is "shave ready" -- no ifs, ands, or buts.

. . . If you cut yourself, it'll be a shallow cut.

So you can get your beard prep technique worked out, and learn your beard's growth patterns, without worrying about stropping, honing, and self-mutilation. There's much less banging your head against the wall with a DE -- the learning curve is _way_ shorter than with a straight razor.

. Charles

It's impossible to put down a Mach 3 and pick up a straight razor and make the transition. It's not an either/or proposition. Get some practice under your belt and then start using the Mach 3 less.

Don't put any pressure on your self. You've got a few years before Gillette discontinues the Mach 3 and a few decades before the world's disposable steel reserves disappear. THEN you'll be forced to transition completely.

The bad things about DE shaving:

I spent 20 years hacking at my face with a DE. If your beard is over 4 days, forget it. You would then need to get out the clippers and cut the hair as short as possible before dragging the factory edge across your face. It always left a razor burn, always.

I will never regret taking the time and effort to learn to use a straight razor.

Jeff.

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Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

The two nice things about DE shaving:

. . . A fresh DE blade is "shave ready" -- no ifs, ands, or buts.

. . . If you cut yourself, it'll be a shallow cut.

So you can get your beard prep technique worked out, and learn your beard's growth patterns, without worrying about stropping, honing, and self-mutilation. There's much less banging your head against the wall with a DE -- the learning curve is _way_ shorter than with a straight razor.

. Charles

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Originally Posted by jeffegg2

The bad things about DE shaving:

I spent 20 years hacking at my face with a DE. If your beard is over 4 days, forget it. You would then need to get out the clippers and cut the hair as short as possible before dragging the factory edge across your face. It always left a razor burn, always.

I will never regret taking the time and effort to learn to use a straight razor.

Jeff.

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You're absolutely right, at least from my perspective.

I think (though I can't speak for him) cpcohen1945's point is that a DE makes for a nice transition from Mach to straight. You can clean up with the DE so you don't depend on your straight for that clean shave. You can then concentrate on learning technique with the straight. That would be my point, anyway.

I've been straight shaving for +4 yrs. now. In the first six months, it was more like a treat, 1x weekly or so, with a Fusion still the main method. But since I got the hang of it and found the right rhythm and products, the straight has been my go-to.

At some point, my first blade went dull, and I could not get it sharp again. It was a Dovo No. 105 Damascus, and I found out that stainless really IS inherently harder to sharpen than carbon. More fool me. I finally sent it out for re-honing, which brought the edge back, but in the meantime, I had also purchased several carbon-steel straights that worked out better for me from various aspects - blade and handle size, ease of honing. Still use the Dovo occasionally, just to make sure it's still working, but it's not my favorite shaver.

The point is, this style of shaving does take a bit of trial, error, and practice. Using different razors, different facial products, different strops, pastes and stones, and shedding a few drops of blood in between ;-), is all part of the ramp-up cost. I would suggest you try working with at least one other blade before giving up! I own five by now, working on a sixth, and rotating 2 or 3 throughout the week. Thanks to this forum, I now have different options for taking care of my blades - generous leather stropping is no. 1, touch-ups with a CrOx stropped linen no. 2, and some light passes on the coticule no. 3. That seems to be working out, it's been a while since I had to put any of the "active" crew back on the 4/8 stone...

Best of luck, and don't give up, the results are worth it!

After reading the suggestions and calming down from my near rage state yesterday, I decided that I couldn't make the blade much worse than it is now if I decided to use my barber's hone on it, and if it doesn't work, I'll just send it to get re-honed.

I soaked the hone while I was at the gym, did 5 wet laps, 3 laps with lather, then 25 linen and 50 leather. It passed HHT with a barely audible ping.

I did a full prep (hot shower, glycerin wash, pre-shave, hot towel, hot lather, hot towel on lather) then decided to shave.

Best shave yet, with the exception of the sides of my neck. My beard grows horizontally there and I can't figure out how to do WTG.

At any rate, cooler heads prevailed and I'm once again happy with my decision.

Also, shout out to gssixgun. Couldn't have done it without his fantastic barber hone vid.

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I'm glad you stuck at it, you have even increased your experience with some honing... Nice 1!

Happy shaving...