Shaving is the easy part - stropping on the other hand...

No problems shaving, getting very smooth shaves with 2 passes, WTG and XTG. Only did one BBS shave in the 2 weeks I've been shaving but that was the only time I did ATG as well. No nicks, no cuts. A very satisfied shaver.

But stropping!! Not having any trouble maintaining the edge, I haven't rolled it. Getting even pressure and smooth strokes, the edge still feels great when I shave so I must be doing it right. The problem is nicking the strop at the bottom. I'm not even sure how I'm doing it, I do a few strokes and there's another nick. If I cut myself as much as I cut my strop I'd go back to cartridges. I was doing so well the first few days so I sped up my stropping and now I'm nicking all the time. The past 3 days have been the worst, I'm getting worse rather then better it seems. Guess I have to slow it down again. :(

Two things come to mind:

-Be VERY careful when flipping the razor that the edge hits the leather while in motion; if you hesitate you tend to nick the strop.

-Elevate your wrist and/or elbow, so your wrist is level or slightly higher than the strop. We have a tendency to drop the wrist somewhat, which usually results in the heel nicking the strop. Notice how some nicks tend to be on the bottom of your strop, closest to the heel?

If you have to slow down a bit to avoid cuts by all means do it. That could be another problem, trying to go too fast before you're ready.

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Originally Posted by thuktunflishithy

No problems shaving, getting very smooth shaves with 2 passes, WTG and XTG. Only did one BBS shave in the 2 weeks I've been shaving but that was the only time I did ATG as well. No nicks, no cuts. A very satisfied shaver.

But stropping!! Not having any trouble maintaining the edge, I haven't rolled it. Getting even pressure and smooth strokes, the edge still feels great when I shave so I must be doing it right. The problem is nicking the strop at the bottom. I'm not even sure how I'm doing it, I do a few strokes and there's another nick. If I cut myself as much as I cut my strop I'd go back to cartridges. I was doing so well the first few days so I sped up my stropping and now I'm nicking all the time. The past 3 days have been the worst, I'm getting worse rather then better it seems. Guess I have to slow it down again. :(

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Been there, done that, still doing that. I'm still using the old cut up strop until I master it. I have a new one but won't use it until I can do it right on the old one. The problem for me is keeping the wrist from bending. That's been the hardest part for me to get. I still ask myself, how can you possibly use only the thumb and forefinger, keep the wrist from bending, and not drop it or cut the strop? It's just as hard for me to do it as when I started, while I have improved light years on all other facets of straight shaving.

My suggestion to you is the same as I'm doing. I downloaded Jimbo's stropping video and plan to study it over and over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP7M8g123s0

I have to agree with the op, the shave while is still a learning curve, is becoming allot easier to get used to then stropping. I am also having problems getting the nack for a good strop. I made the mistake as well of buying a nice strop prior to reading the, "you will destroy your first strop" warnings... Oh well lesson learned! Sticking with it is not going to be a problem, as I am hooked on straights now, but I feel your pain with the entire method of the strop.

Stropping is a continuous, fluid motion. The razor never stops. When the razor stops at the end of a stroke....you get a nick. You THINK you're stopping, but your arm/fingers/wrist continue to move a minute amount.

Check out AFDavis11's videos on the forum home page. He's got the smoothest flip I've ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

-Be VERY careful when flipping the razor that the edge hits the leather while in motion; if you hesitate you tend to nick the strop.

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That's what I'm doing wrong, at the bottom I tend to stop, not for long, but long enough to nick it.

My advice,,,,,SLOW DOWN :) I found that when I was picking up speed is when I nicked the strop....YMMV

I used to put little nicks in my strop at the hand held portion towards my body. I fasten my strop at door knob height and I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam to give you an idea of those logistics. IOW, at my height it is about waist high. I used to hold the tang between the thumb pad and the first joint of my fore finger where the bend is. Reading threads and barber manuals I changed my hold to between the thumb pad and the tip/pad of my fore finger. Once I got that hold/flip down the little cuts/nicks in the strop went away. I also kind of cradle the scales with my middle, ring, and little finger. Almost no pressure, just barely supporting the scales while I'm doing the flip. This may help you as it did me ...... or maybe it won't but either way ..... :gl:

Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.

First learn to do it slow and smooth. One smooth motion and make sure you have reversed your direction before you are finished flipping.

Once you are smooth, practice and keep that muscle memory and you'll get faster.

I think many are also afraid to put any pressure. Yes you don't want too much, but then not too little as well.

Enjoy!

I press just hard enough so I can fell the edge drag. The pressure is applied to the spine and the edge just follows which from what I've read is how it should be. I guess I'm doing it right because the razor is as sharp as it was when I got it.

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Originally Posted by thuktunflishithy

I press just hard enough so I can fell the edge drag. The pressure is applied to the spine and the edge just follows which from what I've read is how it should be. I guess I'm doing it right because the razor is as sharp as it was when I got it.

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I have extensive experience cutting the living crap out of my first strop, so I feel qualified, somehow, to give advise.

To me the key to the stropping without cutting was in the flip. Once I got that to a fluid and consistent movement, the nicking stopped for good, and the most important part of that was the timing; start flipping before you fully stop and finish when you are already on the way back. It's easier to do than to explain.

While I'm no speed demon on the strop, I'm fairly competent and consistent and this is good enough for me. I've since repaired the one that I cut to shreds, and I am proud to say that my other three strops are uncut.

Good luck,


Marcos

I never had issues with cutting strops but I did have similar issues as Jimmy with some tiny nicks and abrasions at the edge towards one end of the strop. Of course this was before these forums existed so I had figure this all out for myself. I still have those early strops and those marks I left to always remind me.

Does anyone think it's easier on a paddle strop to practice or a hanging? I have a hanging strop, was going to make a paddle strop.

I've never used a paddle, so I cannot give you advice on whether it is better. But by the sounds of things, however, I believe you would nick a paddle at the handle end too, because I firmly believe nicks are a result of technique flaws and not a function of the strop or the kind of strop used.

Look, you get nicks when the razor moves edge first. Full stop, end of story. You are clearly flipping and laying the razor flat on the strop before your arm is moving back in the opposite direction. Slow down, flip the razor, and when the edge is up in the air (razor perpendicular to the strop) change direction and continue the flip allowing the edge to land gently and in a controlled fashion back on the strop.

Once you get the hang of that technique at both ends of the strop, nicks will become a thing of the past (until you lose concentration one day and slice your strop in half... :()

Don't worry - stropping is by far the most technical and tricky thing to master of all the related straight razor skills, IMO. It takes years of practice to become adept, and years longer to become seriously good like Alan or Lynn or HonedRight or guys of that ilk. Speed is not important, it will come with time and practice and patience. What is important is that whatever you lay down as the foundation of your technique now is correct, because that is what you will be practising and practising and if there are any flaws, however minor, you will carry them through. So now is the time to really concentrate on getting it all down and correct for you. Then practice that as often as you can. There are no shortcuts.

Having said that, from reading what you do it sounds as though you have a natural talent, so once you get the technique down you will probably be one of those flying hands of fury guys before you know it :)

Good luck.

James.

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Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

Been there, done that, still doing that. I'm still using the old cut up strop until I master it. I have a new one but won't use it until I can do it right on the old one. The problem for me is keeping the wrist from bending. That's been the hardest part for me to get. I still ask myself, how can you possibly use only the thumb and forefinger, keep the wrist from bending, and not drop it or cut the strop? It's just as hard for me to do it as when I started, while I have improved light years on all other facets of straight shaving.

My suggestion to you is the same as I'm doing. I downloaded Jimbo's stropping video and plan to study it over and over.

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Hi CC,
I watched Jimbo's video and will be trying his technique a bit.

I have a pristine Medal of Award double sided Leather and Linen that I have never nicked (knock on wood), and never want too. But I have a bad habit of trying to use the full length. I end up flipping the razor just over the edge on occasion and it gives me tha chills that I might nick the edge of the blade or the strop.

With Jimbo's C pattern I think that issue might see a cure.

Thanks all, especially CC and Jimbo.

+1 on stropping being the most demanding of the various skill sets required to be a self-reliant open razor shaver.

Even if a shaver takes to honing right off the bat, stropping, at least consistently, is not a guarantee. Jimbo is right, it takes time and youtube is not a place to build realistic expectations. Whatever rate facilitates the most consistent stroke, especially for the strop's safety, is the most important goal.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Don't worry - stropping is by far the most technical and tricky thing to master of all the related straight razor skills, IMO.

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For me stropping is definitely the hardest, shaving was easy, even the first time. But I attribute that to all the post and articles I read on here first. Between nicking and not being able to hold the razor properly I totally suck at stropping. I'm used to being good with my hands/fingers (years of playing guitar, ukulele and banjo), it's frustrating. I'll get it eventually. Thanks guys. Again. :)

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I used to put little nicks in my strop at the hand held portion towards my body. I fasten my strop at door knob height and I'm 5'9" with a 30" inseam to give you an idea of those logistics. IOW, at my height it is about waist high. I used to hold the tang between the thumb pad and the first joint of my fore finger where the bend is. Reading threads and barber manuals I changed my hold to between the thumb pad and the tip/pad of my fore finger. Once I got that hold/flip down the little cuts/nicks in the strop went away. I also kind of cradle the scales with my middle, ring, and little finger. Almost no pressure, just barely supporting the scales while I'm doing the flip. This may help you as it did me ...... or maybe it won't but either way ..... :gl:

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I can identify a lot with what you're saying. Ironically I fasten my strop at door knob height and I'm 5'9". Ironically my stropping has improved the last couple of times as a result of reading this thread. One reason why I think stropping is a pain is because it is a forgotten technique in the learning curve. For the past couple of years I've asked like crazy for help on other aspects of shaving but before this thread don't recall ever asking anyone for help with stropping.

Probably as a result of studying this thread I have held the razor more securely by the scales so that the scales are closer to the palm of my hand. That has enabled me to flip the razor with authority without fear of dropping the thing. I am still extremely slow. Another thing is that I had the notion that you had to strop fast to get the benefits of stropping and for that reason I tried to rush it. Unfortunately the only way I can rush is to bend the wrist like crazy. So I'm feeling a lot better about it, although it's hard to picture me doing it quickly. But it is probably like learning the straight shaving in that you can't do something you want to do for a long time and then all of a sudden one day you can.

I had a light bulb moment after my last post. When learning to play a difficult piece of music I break it down into sections and do them each slowly, until they become second nature and I don't have to think about them anymore. Muscle memory takes over. There are things I play that I have no idea what I'm actually doing, my brain can't keep up with the speed of my fingers, my fingers just move. I have to apply that same mindset to this. And just like music, it may take months or years to master it. It did take me years to be able to play some songs, many years lol. So slow it down, pay close attention to each step, the roll at the top, the roll at the bottom, the swipes in between, get them perfect then let 'er rip.

Yeah, I know, I was told that, but like many stubborn people I had to think of it myself to believe it. :)

CaliforniaCajun's post reminded me ..... many think it is better to not bend or turn your wrist to make the flip. I started out as a wrist turner but after reading it was "wrong", with great difficulty, broke the habit. Since then I use the thumb/forefinger to do the flip. I'm sure there are expert stroppers out there who turn the wrist. That is why I put quotation marks around wrong. I suppose it's only wrong if it doesn't work. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Maxi

Stropping is a continuous, fluid motion. The razor never stops. When the razor stops at the end of a stroke....you get a nick. You THINK you're stopping, but your arm/fingers/wrist continue to move a minute amount.

Check out AFDavis11's videos on the forum home page. He's got the smoothest flip I've ever seen.

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I wanted to look up the thread and thank you for your suggestion about the razor never leaving the strop. I don't know if I knew better or whether or not I have been doing it, but today I thought about that concept while stropping and did a much better job. Still fighting with the wrist, almost to the point what I feel and how it looks can sometimes be two different things. But anyway thanks for the suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Ryan82

Two things come to mind:

-Be VERY careful when flipping the razor that the edge hits the leather while in motion; if you hesitate you tend to nick the strop.

-Elevate your wrist and/or elbow, so your wrist is level or slightly higher than the strop. We have a tendency to drop the wrist somewhat, which usually results in the heel nicking the strop. Notice how some nicks tend to be on the bottom of your strop, closest to the heel?

If you have to slow down a bit to avoid cuts by all means do it. That could be another problem, trying to go too fast before you're ready.

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I just ran across your suggestion about elevating your wrist and elbow. I didn't retain it during my first read and during the watching of the video. Thanks in advance for your suggestion. I will notice what I do next time.

Talking about paddle strops. I have a couple bench strops which are really just big paddles and they are easier to use than a hanging. They don't flex or move as you use them and you can put them on a table or counter and better set them up for customized use. The hanger is the classic way of course and I use my bench strops as pasted strops only.

Just ordered me a "roo" strop today, but won't use it until I get further along in stropping technique!

I'm starting to get it now. I think. I hope. :)